BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[David Walden]

It is quite simple to get a retirement visa in your home country but you have to have the money equal to Bt800,000 in a bank or retirement fund in your home country. Plus a bit of paperwork.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, Toosetinmyways said:

a safe haven for pedos , mafias, scam artìsts, criminals on the run etc

The Agents have them covered, and all this does is create more agent-business.  The elite visa will work for all but the wanted-criminals.  The "pay us off for ED Visa extensions" system (5K / 90-days, per last reports), which immigration put in place a couple years ago (under the usual guise of a "crackdown") to suck money from both legit and illegitimate students, could also serve these undesirables well.

 

7 hours ago, Toosetinmyways said:

Anyone staying more than a certain length of time on a tourist visa will have to convince the IO that they are real tourists.

Tourists have to get new passports to keep getting Visas in the region - which takes care of the "on the run" criminals.  The immigration-act says nothing about what a "real tourist" is - and limits denials-of-entry to very specific reasons.  Visa Exempts can be denied more easily, though.

 

7 hours ago, Toosetinmyways said:

Look what happened to mariage extensions. Before it was a trip to immigration with the wife and mariage cert for approval. Then what happened, scam mariages.

Some foreigners from low-wage countries coming here to work illegally?  Ok - so the only thing they needed to do was add home-visits.  Every Other Change to the marriage-extension process does NOTHING to stop sham-marriages. 

 

And, to top it off, use an agent and almost every added bit disappears - so the criminal/mafia-types are 100% covered, while the legit people being forced into an extortion-racket - as planned.  Since they see us all as "pay us tribute or get out," and don't care a whit about honesty, legitimacy of the application, etc. 

 

7 hours ago, Toosetinmyways said:

Income avidavit. People using sham offshore companies paying them a paper income. Immigration clamps down. Need to see real money in Thai bank.

People don't need to xfer 65K/mo to live here because Thailand is inexpensive.  The new "transfers" system does not even prove income.  But, lying on an income-affidavit could get you a felony-conviction in your passport country.  They have lowered the bar - not raised it. 

The only possible purpose of this change was removing competition for their agent-action - forcing any fakers and many who have the income, but don't need to xfer a full 65K/mo here, to be added to the agent-money system so immigration gets a cut.

 

7 hours ago, Toosetinmyways said:

When retirement extensions started agents deposited real money inthe bank account in your name for the required seasoning. Now it seems that no money at all is shown. Immigration assumes that all retirees as using this method or the fake company way and it is up to you to prove otherwise. 

Money is put in the bank for a few hours, during which time the bank-letter is generated.  IOs don't check seasoning for agent-applications.  Corrupt IOs are the only reason the existing seasoning-rule doesn't work - criminals cooperating in a conspiracy with agents to defraud the system. 

 

All this change does, is make more agent-customers, to generate more (and likely higher per-application) immigration-agent payoffs. 

 

7 hours ago, Toosetinmyways said:

Perhaps the Thais look upon visa misusers as bad guys and want them out.

The anti-farang clique - yes.  Certainly not the other 99% of Thais who are glad we are here, and don't believe "the news" any more than most Russians in the old USSR believed Pravda.

 

Immigration cannot admit that the problem is NOT "Expats from Developed Countries" spending foreign-sourced capital into the Thai economy, and supporting 4x Thai salaries worth of spending each (6x for retired) - the problem IS criminals working within immigration, itself. 

 

The only function of these constant rules-changes, is to increase their flow of extortion money, to drive away foreigners unwilling to pay the extortion, and drive good Thai jobs out of existence by so doing.  Each Thai de-employed by this and the other changes tells their story to hundreds of others.  This undermines confidence in a market-based economy as well as creating resentment to the powers that be.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Benmart said:

Visa agents falsify by depositing 800k into someones account, the bank knows very well what is going on when they print a report and officials that are involved seem to be part of the problem. Corruption on mutiple levels.

The bank's letter is genuine.  It is IOs not checking the seasoning which allows the scam to work.  The problem is 100% within immigration. 

 

Changing the seasoning-time is pointless, while criminals can just "forget" to look at the seasoning for an agent's brown-envelope. 

 

This is designed ONLY to effect an increasing segment of Legitimate applicants.  Some IOs see honest, in-person applicants as "Cheap Charlies" who need to be taught a lesson about "how things are, here."

[catman20]

14 hours ago, wobalt said:

They exxpected that we respect their laws and culture. As we are part of the society,(maybe for decades) i expect respect from them as well


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

get over it your far to sensitive. its a pity the UK is not a bit more like Thailand.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, superal said:

What I have not seen mentioned here is that many IOs want to see the bank account  , holding the 800K baht , to be active i.e. money in & out on a regular basis . Therefore we are talking in excess of 8ook to the extent of not falling below 800k which if that did happen would disqualify you ?  800k is not enough . more like 850-900k and the remaining 6 months 450 - 500k

Visa issued  at the 1st stage of having the 800k in the bank for 3 months . Do they have a crystal ball for the next 9 months ?

Not in my experience.  (20 extensions).  IO wants to see a bank letter and book for 3 months.  I have heard Phuket is the only one that wants to see in and out. 

[Olmate]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

35 minutes ago, David Walden said:

%

You lose, your shout!

[marcusarelus]

21 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The only possible purpose of this change was removing competition for their agent-action - forcing any fakers and many who have the income, but don't need to xfer a full 65K/mo here, to be added to the agent-money system so immigration gets a cut.

 

Money is put in the bank for a few hours, during which time the bank-letter is generated.  IOs don't check seasoning for agent-applications.  Corrupt IOs are the only reason the existing seasoning-rule doesn't work - criminals cooperating in a conspiracy with agents to defraud the system. 

 

All this change does, is make more agent-customers, to generate more (and likely higher per-application) immigration-agent payoffs. 

 

The anti-farang clique - yes.  Certainly not the other 99% of Thais who are glad we are here, and don't believe "the news" any more than most Russians in the old USSR believed Pravda.

 

Immigration cannot admit that the problem is NOT "Expats from Developed Countries" spending foreign-sourced capital into the Thai economy, and supporting 4x Thai salaries worth of spending each (6x for retired) - the problem IS criminals working within immigration, itself. 

 

The only function of these constant rules-changes, is to increase their flow of extortion money, to drive away foreigners unwilling to pay the extortion, and drive good Thai jobs out of existence by so doing.  Each Thai de-employed by this and the other changes tells their story to hundreds of others.  This undermines confidence in a market-based economy as well as creating resentment to the powers that be.

Are you saying the new change 800 after and 400 all year was made so the IO's can extort money directly without using an agent? 

 

The facts and events don't support that hypothesis. 

 

The new changes eliminate the agent as operated before. 

[balo]

33 minutes ago, dayo202 said:

This Message is from the KEY VISA Facebook page.. please don't shoot the messenger.

Latest News ???????? we believe the new rules for retirement visa applications will not affect applicants who have had a retirement visa issued in the last 10 years, this new rule is aimed at new applicants ????????

News yet to be confirmed but looking good ????

 

Interesting , Key Visa Pattaya are one of the biggest agents, serving UK nationals and Europeans.   If this is true you might wonder why only new applicants have to follow the new rules. 

 

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, sambum said:

...

"I think a fairer way is to say leave 800 K in the bank and here's your retirement visa for 10 years."

 

So if you don't have 800k baht to hand, tough?

If that had been the system all along, many would not have bought condos, and put the money in the bank, instead.  The worst part of this is that there is no grandfathering - embassy-letters go away (with immigration's prodding last May), then the seasoning rules change, etc.  

 

Unlikely to sell a condo in under a month and get a good price - especially as immigration is driving away the potential buyers and renters at a brisk-pace.  Not to mention, "rent" was not factored into these folks retirement plan, here, and the money from the condo-sale is stuck in a Thai bank to satisfy immigration.

Those who Did The Right Thing, and planned to follow the rules, and likely invested in a condo to live in during their retirement, are being screwed.  There is no fairness in that. 

[Spidey]

31 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The bank's letter is genuine.  It is IOs not checking the seasoning which allows the scam to work.  The problem is 100% within immigration. 

They do check the seasoning. However, an IO can legitimately waiver seasoning rules in "exceptional circumstances". This is the get out clause that they use when dealing with agents who have only seasoned your account for a matter of minutes.

[Naam]

Quote

Roy Baht said:

I agree. Obviously, a lot of people can't afford to put a big lump of cash in a bank and not touch it for 5 months and I sympathize with that situation. But the people who brag about their great wealth overseas then complain that they can't squeeze a paltry 800K baht out of their butts because they are "savvy investors" are full of it.

[JackThompson]

 

 

5 hours ago, balo said:

I would probably not feel safe in PI without some security outside my house. 

The only time my "danger" radar ever went off in the PI was in Manila - even in areas of other towns which the locals called "dangerous" (not at all "dangerous" compared to many areas of the USA).  Avoid Manilla and the deep-South of the country, and it's fine. 

 

Most apt-complexes and neighborhoods of homes in medium to large cities in the PI include security - same as you find with condo buildings here in Thailand.  Burglary is the concern - not kidnapping, etc.

 

Most Filipinos, including in their immigration ranks, respect honesty and fair-dealing in general.  They don't treat good folks like "suckers" to be bled or "Cheap Charlies" for submitting an application without agent-money.  Agents (aka "fixers") are outlawed entirely, so the incentive to be a criminal within the bureaucracy is greatly reduced.

[sumrit]

9 minutes ago, balo said:

46 minutes ago, dayo202 said:

This Message is from the KEY VISA Facebook page.. please don't shoot the messenger.

Latest News ???????? we believe the new rules for retirement visa applications will not affect applicants who have had a retirement visa issued in the last 10 years, this new rule is aimed at new applicants ????????

News yet to be confirmed but looking good ????

 

Interesting , Key Visa Pattaya are one of the biggest agents, serving UK nationals and Europeans.   If this is true you might wonder why only new applicants have to follow the new rules. 

Looks like Darren's panicking.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, namatjira said:

...extensions based on marriage will likely be the next for the re evaluation treatment.

As if they are not hellish enough, in many offices.  For marriage, they have already added an "extra seasoning" period on after you apply (without warning or even publishing a notice) at Chang Wattana and some other offices.  Of course, this only hurts legitimate applicants supporting Thai families, since "money seasoning" isn't checked for agent-applications.

 

A large number of those here on retirement-extensions are married to Thai ladies.  Given the moving of the goalposts for retirement-extensions, it would be prudent to expect immigration to get even more harsh with honest marriage-based applicants now  This will "herd" those considering switching to marriage-based extensions, into continuing with retirement-extensions - but now only through agents - instead. 

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, alex8912 said:

I’m on my 5 th METV and I have heard ZERO reports of people using it for 6 months in Thailand followed by 6 months in their home country year after year with any trouble. I’ve used just major entry airports. 

It's a matter of odds.  You have won at immigration-roulette thus far.  May your good luck continue.  I mean that sincerely - and everyone else on Tourist Visas too.  The Thais your spending employs thank you for running the immigration-gauntlet to continue staying here.

 

Other snowbirds have been interrogated - with comments like, "Tourists only stay a week or two," which gives you a clue to how the hardliners see things - obviously opposed to a Tourist Visa entry giving 60 whole days permitted-stay.

 

I would suggest getting a Non-OA Visa, while they last.  Once enough people start avoiding agent-payoffs with those, some bad-apples within immigration will start pushing to make them harder and harder to get - but it's viable for now.

[balo]

4 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Looks like Darren's panicking.

He's been around for many years, he would not publish this statement if he was not sure. 

 

How many regulars does he have ? More than 1000 for sure so he doesn't need new customers walking in the door.  

 

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

6 hours ago, dcnx said:

Don’t be surprised if down the road the required amount raises and/or the retirement age is raised too. What is now 50 can easily become 60 or 65 of one of them gets a hard-on to do it. 800k can become 1 million with little to no notice.

 

Anything is possible here. 

Indirectly, the 800K as their assessment of the required living expenses for retirement, has been raised to 1.2 million.

 

If you know have to keep 800K in the bank for 5 months and 400K for the remaining months, then 400K now becomes an investment rather than for use as living expenses, leaving 400K as living expenses for the year.

400,000 divide 12 = 33,333BHT per month.

So if you want to maintain your current living standard, you'll need to transfer another 400K into your account.

 

I can perfectly understand and sympathise with those who will now decide to keep their funds in a foreign bank and just transfer 65K per month to use the income method. The new Police order was rather hastily put together without thinking it through. Big Joke decide to pull his gun and shoot. Unfortunately he didn't clear his holster and could have possibly shot himself in the foot.

[madmen]

If that had been the system all along, many would not have bought condos, and put the money in the bank, instead.  The worst part of this is that there is no grandfathering - embassy-letters go away (with immigration's prodding last May), then the seasoning rules change, etc.  

 

Unlikely to sell a condo in under a month and get a good price - especially as immigration is driving away the potential buyers and renters at a brisk-pace.  Not to mention, "rent" was not factored into these folks retirement plan, here, and the money from the condo-sale is stuck in a Thai bank to satisfy immigration.

 

Those who Did The Right Thing, and planned to follow the rules, and likely invested in a condo to live in during their retirement, are being screwed.  There is no fairness in that. 

Wrong. You keep sprouting the same nonsense.. The rules mostly negatively effect the poorer farang eg pensioners with no savings.

These are not and never will be condo buyers. If they don't have 800k then they won't have 5 to 10 million baht for a condo.

 

Most are in cheap 4 to 6k shoebox rooms because it's all they can afford.. It's just common sense

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

40 minutes ago, Olmate said:

You lose, your shout!

The cheque is in the mail.

[GalaxyMan]

With the income/deposit method, they want to see 65,000/month deposited. Do they really care where that money comes from? Can some or all of that be cash deposits? What's to stop someone from depositing the 65,000 each month, then withdrawing whatever is left over from the initial 65,000 after living expenses before the end of the month and then topping it up to 65,000 to deposit again the following month?

[Straight8]

On 1/31/2019 at 9:06 PM, baansgr said:

Its not zero dollar, why would I want to tie up 20k Sterling when I get over 7% in divis, cost 120 quid a month just on loss of income..many others use their savings to provide income.

Your dividends are not guaranteed from year to year. On top of that, your capital holding the stock that gives you these dividends could go down substantially.

 

In theory your return on say 800K equivalent could be much less than the return you would get having the money sitting in a Thai bank, but above all else, Thailand don't give a flying **** what return you can get. It's their term & condition of the proposed new retirement rules.

 

It's not rocket science. If you don't like this, you, me and everyone else is free to not retire here.. Again, they don't give a rat's.

[tlandtday]

10 minutes ago, madmen said:

Wrong. You keep sprouting the same nonsense.. The rules mostly negatively effect the poorer farang eg pensioners with no savings.

These are not and never will be condo buyers. If they don't have 800k then they won't have 5 to 10 million baht for a condo.

 

Most are in cheap 4 to 6k shoebox rooms because it's all they can afford.. It's just common sense

 

 

 

You seem to make blanket statements based on personal bias with little or no data to back it up lol.  These rules affect anyone who is tired of being run through the hoops and ever changing poorly thought out rules. 

[Straight8]

On 1/31/2019 at 9:11 PM, MikeOKitches said:

MrPatrick, get your mind out of the gutter. That's not why I'm considering a move to Cambodia.
You sound like the typical SJW liberal moral absolutists I escaped from in the USA. Always making
patently erroneous assumptions and talking out of their sphincters. Bye to you for sure. 

MrPatrick is the type of guy who comes here for the weather and fine smiles. ????

[seeyoujimmy]

If they put there own house in order there would not be a problem.

Also if they want to check the 800K is your money and you are using it throughout the year they could check the withdrawals in your bank book or the bank could print a statement for the year, if 800K has went in and out in a few days then they could ask you to explain, easy job done.  

[Pib]

13 hours ago, ocddave said:

Wow, thats a huge decline....was there a reason for it? Is that per account, or per bank?

It's per all you accounts at any individual bank.  Let's say we are already in the period were the coverage is Bt1M. If you had one, two, or three (or more) accounts that totaled up to say Bt1M at Bangkok Bank, then you have full 100% cover for your Bt1M.  But if you say had Bt2M in those Bangkok Bank accounts you would only be covered for Bt1M max from the govt...but still may end-up getting some more payback once the bank's assets are liquidated/sold off if the govt took that route.

 

OK, but lets say you "also" had accounts at SCB bank...basically repeat what I said above effectively giving you another Bt1M coverage. 

 

By having your money at multiple Thai "banks" (not "branches" of the same parent bank), you can get more coverage.

 

So, it's best to have you money in more than one Thai bank (i.e., Bangkok Bank, SCB, K-bank) to get more coverage.

 

[madmen]

You seem to make blanket statements based on personal bias with little or no data to back it up lol.  These rules affect anyone who is tired of being run through the hoops and ever changing poorly thought out rules. 

Tired of what? Just put your 800k in a bank. Not rocket science.

The pensioners with no cash will leave. It won't collapse the real estate sector or effect the economy one.single.. Bit

[madmen]

This Message is from the KEY VISA Facebook page.. please don't shoot the messenger.

Latest News [emoji117][emoji117] we believe the new rules for retirement visa applications will not affect applicants who have had a retirement visa issued in the last 10 years, this new rule is aimed at new applicants [emoji106][emoji108]

News yet to be confirmed but looking good [emoji120]

So far every leaked rumor has come true however can't see why they would not have mentioned grand fathering in the press release

[seeyoujimmy]

16 minutes ago, madmen said:

Wrong. You keep sprouting the same nonsense.. The rules mostly negatively effect the poorer farang eg pensioners with no savings.

These are not and never will be condo buyers. If they don't have 800k then they won't have 5 to 10 million baht for a condo.

 

Most are in cheap 4 to 6k shoebox rooms because it's all they can afford.. It's just common sense

 

 

 

You are wrong up until recently i could not put 800K in a thai bank account but i do have a 4m house here and had a house and flat in the Uk lucky for me i have sold the house in the Uk.

Also why is it a problem for some people that not everyone had a lot of money, some people just want a better life here than they would have in there home country, they are still contributing to the Thai economy, 

[Tanoshi]

33 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Looks like Darren's panicking.

 

26 minutes ago, balo said:

He's been around for many years, he would not publish this statement if he was not sure. 

 

How many regulars does he have ? More than 1000 for sure so he doesn't need new customers walking in the door.  

If the new order only applied to first time applicants, there would have been a grandfather clause for those already on extensions …….. there isn't.

[Roy Baht]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Each Thai de-employed by this and the other changes tells their story to hundreds of others.  This undermines confidence in a market-based economy as well as creating resentment to the powers that be.

It's hard not to think that Thai de-employment is an intentional part of the plan. Foreigners come here and overpay the locals, marry them, buy them houses and take care of their families--often for little or nothing in return. That's not "market-based economy"--that's socialism! Foreigners here upset the social order. How are wealthier Thais to exploit poorer Thais, if dumb foreigners come here and throw around free money?!