If health insurance becomes mandatory ,what then?

[david555]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I am from France and there is nothing like that . There is some minimal health insurance (MCU) for everyone, yes, but you must be resident in France for at least 3 months. So an emergency repatriation would not be a solution. There is a way to keep a better in-France health insurance, but by continuing paying for it when you are expatriated... 

And I am only a neighbor from north border , and we have that in our little country …. so I understand the yellow vests movement now ...

Edited February 7, 2019 by david555

[ocddave]

Just now, david555 said:

That say's more about the USA 's American dream ...

Yes, I miss the old days where I just called my doctor, and drove down to his office for a visit (his home-office), he had three nurses and everyone was treated like family, not a number.

[kannot]

My Plan...............already ahead of them with this  one, Im building myself a balcony, it does have some slight drawbacks as Im on the ground floor,  guess  ill have to jump further out or summat??

[Thaiwrath]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think expats have more than enough on their plate right now trying to decipher and comply with the new visa rules that are actual. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It might not happen, or it might have a grandfathering clause if it does.

 

That said, anyone who can get health insurance and hasn't already, certainly should. And (1) it is not true that there are no policies that will enroll people over a certain age; and (2)  you do nto need "Thai health" insurance (actually is no such thing). You need a policy that covers you in Thailand which any expat policy should do. Thai companies are not the only option.

i

The big one is pre-existing conditions.

I arrived here in 2005, aged 45, and paid 22,000 baht to one of the big insurance companies here, for insurance, subject to a medical. After being sent to the most expensive private hospital in the city where I live for the medical (basically a blood test), I eventually received a cheque 2 weeks later for 20,000 baht (yes, 2,000 baht for the blood test !) with a letter declining insurance. Despite several phone calls from both myself and the agent, they declined to give me a reason.

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

The big one is pre-existing conditions.

I arrived here in 2005, aged 45, and paid 22,000 baht to one of the big insurance companies here, for insurance, subject to a medical. After being sent to the most expensive private hospital in the city where I live for the medical (basically a blood test), I eventually received a cheque 2 weeks later for 20,000 baht (yes, 2,000 baht for the blood test !) with a letter declining insurance. Despite several phone calls from both myself and the agent, they declined to give me a reason.

You should have tried elsewhere.  There is considerable variance across companies in what they require and how they define and handle certain things. It is most unusual to require a medical exam for a 45 year old, either this was an outlier among insurers or something you put on your form raised issues.

 

And now at age 59-60 you still should apply elsewhere unless you have serious pre-exisitng condition developed since then.

 

there are a large number of options. it is a common and completely wrong perception here that only Thai companies provide health insurance for expats living in Thailand. Most international insureres have expat policies specifically tailored to people living in a country other than their own.

[Felt 35]

A friend informed me last year that Bangkok Insurance brokers company will launch a health insurance based on the Swiss health care system........

http://www.insurance-in-thailand.com/affordable-health-insurance-for-anyone-in-thailand/

 

 

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Then I could/ would dump my medical insurance?

If you would be happy to use the local government hospital, then yes.

 But if you expect to get a private room in a private hospital, then no.

 Retirees are expected to have an income of at least 65000 baht/month so why not have them pay the same amount into a health insurance scheme as an expat working here on the same salary would pay into the Social Security Fund.

 But that’s too simple, so IF they ever introduced compulsory insurance I am sure the powers that be would find a way to stuff it up.......

[indepth]

5 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

You are a happy bunny arnt you , so whats the answer?

Bert is spot on, What will happen is, you will have to take out health ins. Or, get out. Not too hard to comprehend. 

[indepth]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe there could be an exception of the rule. Anybody who has no health insurance must have a million baht cash in a special account which will be available in case he/she needs the money for health issues.

That shouldn't be really a problem because everybody should be prepared. Or who do you think should pay your hospital bill i.e. for a heart operation? Should the Thai tax payers be responsible for that bill? Or should someone setup another fund-me account?

 

Everybody should be responsible for his/her own bills. If you have money, fine. If you have an insurance, fine. And if you have no money and no insurance then don't be surprised that the Thai taxpayers don't think they are responsible to pay your bills.

Maby, possibly, shouldnt, 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe there could be an exception of the rule. Anybody who has no health insurance must have a million baht cash in a special account which will be available in case he/she needs the money for health issues.

That shouldn't be really a problem because everybody should be prepared. Or who do you think should pay your hospital bill i.e. for a heart operation? Should the Thai tax payers be responsible for that bill? Or should someone setup another fund-me account?

 

Everybody should be responsible for his/her own bills. If you have money, fine. If you have an insurance, fine. And if you have no money and no insurance then don't be surprised that the Thai taxpayers don't think they are responsible to pay your bills.

So, 1 million in a special account for possible medical bills plus 800,000 in another account for Visa purposes plus, according to Thai Immigration, a further 800,000 a year for living expenses.  "That shouldn't be a problem because everybody should be prepared"?   Given the usual one month's notice of course. 

 

I am constantly amazed at the condescending attitude of posters on here who clearly have more money than they know what to do with and assume everybody else is in precisely the same boat.

 

Try explaining the new rules to an 80 year-old guy, with family here but who cannot meet your proposed new requirements and therefore has to return to his home country he has possibly lost touch with and leaving his Thai family behind.  These things always seem simple and affordable to many young posters on here, but remember that one day, if lucky, you too will be old.

[Thaiwrath]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

And now at age 59-60 you still should apply elsewhere unless you have serious pre-exisitng condition developed since then.

The main two now are ACDF surgery 21 months ago, but having permanent neuropathy due to the damage done in the years prior to surgery (I actually have physio every week at the Government hospital), and asthma, including several hospital admissions). If you throw in Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (No pain since hospilaization 4 years ago, but it's on my medical records, and several gout attacks, I fear my premiums would be far too high, hence, I choose to self insure.

I have done everything possible lifestyle wise to change for the better, stopped smoking, rarely drinking, a 5k walk at 5.00am every morning, and I am in the process of improving my diet, as a blood test last week showed high blood sugar levels !  

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe there could be an exception of the rule. Anybody who has no health insurance must have a million baht cash in a special account which will be available in case he/she needs the money for health issues.

That shouldn't be really a problem because everybody should be prepared. Or who do you think should pay your hospital bill i.e. for a heart operation? Should the Thai tax payers be responsible for that bill? Or should someone setup another fund-me account?

 

Everybody should be responsible for his/her own bills. If you have money, fine. If you have an insurance, fine. And if you have no money and no insurance then don't be surprised that the Thai taxpayers don't think they are responsible to pay your bills.

Effectively, that means the price of staying in Thailand would then become 1.8 million baht for those who use the 800K deposit method. I'm not sure I would want to tie up that much in a non-performing asset, when there are other Asian countries who are far more liberal in their attitude.

I have no objection to being responsible for my own bills. I've done that all my life. However, I do have a problem with being told what to do with my money by government fiat.

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Retirees are expected to have an income of at least 65000 baht/month so why not have them pay the same amount into a health insurance scheme as an expat working here on the same salary would pay into the Social Security Fund.

You just required all Expats to need 130,000 baht/month to live on? Or do you mean a different amount?

[Lacessit]

42 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think expats have more than enough on their plate right now trying to decipher and comply with the new visa rules that are actual. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It might not happen, or it might have a grandfathering clause if it does.

 

That said, anyone who can get health insurance and hasn't already, certainly should. And (1) it is not true that there are no policies that will enroll people over a certain age; and (2)  you do nto need "Thai health" insurance (actually is no such thing). You need a policy that covers you in Thailand which any expat policy should do. Thai companies are not the only option.

 

You are posting on the assumption the Thai authorities will accept medical insurance provided by international insurers. If they require the insurance to be through Thai companies only, what then?

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

You just required all Expats to need 130,000 baht/month to live on? Or do you mean a different amount?

He seems to mean an amount equivalent to what people pay into SS. Not going to happen. that scheme gets by on that amount because the majority of people it covers are comparatively young, active working people.

 

Letting expat retirees pay their way into it is a good idea but the premiumnwould have to be higher for people newly entering at age 50+ than for people who entered the scheme while employed.  There is no indication that this is under consideration, though. It would be more likely that government might eventually let resident expats pay to come under the "30 baht" scheme as they already do this for migrant workers from neighboring countries. They'd have to figure out an appropriate premium first and that would take some research.

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You are posting on the assumption the Thai authorities will accept medical insurance provided by international insurers. If they require the insurance to be through Thai companies only, what then?

You are very right here. For me it would be logical that they require a Thai Insurance as they are the only ones they can be sure on its coverage. (The same way they require Thai bank to verify you have enough money).

Anyone know how it works for the Non O-X visa ?

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 They'd have to figure out an appropriate premium first and that would take some research.

Using the word research in conjunction with Thais is drawing a bit of a long bow. Thais live in the present. I haven't seen too much evidence of forward planning or consideration of adverse consequences. In the Nike slogan, they just do it.

[Tomtomtom69]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Just a bunch of unfounded rumors about it.

It all started from a news article stating they were considering it for OA long stay visas issued at embassies and consulates which did not happen. Not a word more about it since then. 

Not to mention, why would Thailand introduce such rules but not other nearby countries? Wouldn't make much sense and would automatically make Thailand less attractive. Not that I oppose the idea of having some kind of accident insurance - it's good to have but it should be up to the individual to decide on the risk. Also, many elderly people can't get insurance coverage due to pre-existing conditions and age limits (in Thailand, upper age limits for many such things are especially low, often only 60 sometimes 70 if you're lucky).

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Using the word research in conjunction with Thais is drawing a bit of a long bow. Thais live in the present. I haven't seen too much evidence of forward planning or consideration of adverse consequences. In the Nike slogan, they just do it.

The NHSO has a while unit of health economists and they are pretty good.

 

However arranging health cover for expats is far from being high on their list of priorities.  They are struggling with issues like the cost-effectivenss of  expanding coverage for Thais to include specific new drugs/treatments and how to keep the whole system from going broke.

[JLCrab]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You are posting on the assumption the Thai authorities will accept medical insurance provided by international insurers. If they require the insurance to be through Thai companies only, what then?

AS with the talk on the O-A visa:

 

Those already having overseas insurance policies that meet the minimum requirement would be exempted from subscribing to Thai insurance policies. They will be able to apply for long-stay visas using their foreign insurance policies, he said.

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30360990

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Those already having overseas insurance policies that meet the minimum requirement

would be exempted from subscribing to Thai insurance policies. //

Good, but many foreign insurances do not meet

the "minimum Bt40,000 out-patient medical bill coverage"  

[cooked]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Good for your case, for sure,

but don't think many countries offer such free treatment…

mainly when you have left it for years...

To put it diplomatically, too many people expect free treatment here, for myself I object to "refugees" in other countries insisting on free health treatment when many expats going home can't expect that themselveslves.

[Simon1287]

Many of the farang I speak to about health insurance here in Pattaya seem to almost scoff at the idea, saying they will just fly back to their home country for treatment if anything major appears.

 

Life being what it is though, that is not always an option.

 

Many illnesses/accidents could leave a person unable to fly, so what exactly happens if a serious motor cycle accident or major sudden health problem, for example, leaves someone needing ICU, intensive care followed by weeks or even months of hospital treatment. That could be many millions of Baht.

 

I know many people think "it will never happen to me" but if it happens to others it can happen to anyone and if it comes it can come very swiftly and out of nowhere.

 

I assume that, when the time is right, if the farang has no money, they just fill him with drugs and forget about him until he is no longer a problem.

 

I am also assuming, as this would just be "covered up" it probably happens regularly. 

 

What exactly DOES happen to all the skint farangs with no health insurance or money who need a stay in ICU, intensive care and weeks of time as an inpatient? 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Simon1287

[TKDfella]

6 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

It will be a show stopper for many.

 

But difficult to predict the extent of the damage.

 

Much will depend on the manner of implementation.

 

But noting we were given just one month's notice of these current changes, train wreck is an image that come easily to mind.

I think you forget that it is already under consideration...by hospitals! Thai Hospitals and insurance agents have lobbied the government. Although I don't know about Thai insurance proposed price, hospitals want to sell a similar insurance to that which is/was available for Asians, which if you remember was used for other foreigners until the junta stopped it. But as there is an (expected) election soon it will be an issue for the next government. Perhaps, just perhaps, when there is such a Thai insurance system, immigration might include it but it's a 'wait and see' situation. 

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe there could be an exception of the rule. Anybody who has no health insurance must have a million baht cash in a special account which will be available in case he/she needs the money for health issues.

That shouldn't be really a problem because everybody should be prepared. Or who do you think should pay your hospital bill i.e. for a heart operation? Should the Thai tax payers be responsible for that bill? Or should someone setup another fund-me account?

 

Everybody should be responsible for his/her own bills. If you have money, fine. If you have an insurance, fine. And if you have no money and no insurance then don't be surprised that the Thai taxpayers don't think they are responsible to pay your bills.

Fortunately for me, I was young enough (with a pre-existing condition) which is a decade old to get private health insurance, including me and the family, it costs me 10,000 baht per month for emergency cover.

 

All this talk, is not only in Thailand, here is an article from Australia which said NSW taxpayers paid around $30 million a year on medical bills for tourists and visitors who are ineligible for Medicare.

 

Every time an uninsured visitor does not pay for their treatment in one of our public hospitals, taxpayers foot the bill,” Mr Hazzard is quoted as saying.

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2018/09/08/new-rule-proposed-overseas-visitors-and-tourists

 

When they day comes that I can no longer pay or can no longer receive health insurance in Thailand for a private hospital, I will return to the motherland and reapply for free health insurance after the qualifying time, that is currently (6 months), I believe.

 

While I understand there are a lot of people out there that will get caught out if this became compulsory, the Thai government would have to use its mathematical skills, to weigh up the cost that farangs contribute to their economy and the damage it would do if they did enforce such a ruling, that said, one would hope that they would make it compulsory for farangs to pay an annual fee to be covered, thus taking the burden off their tax payers, a fee could be somewhere in the range of 1,000 baht per month renewable before their extensions, that said I would assume that there would be a lot of sober unhappy farangs out there ????

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[Sheryl]

18 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Good, but many foreign insurances do not meet

the "minimum Bt40,000 out-patient medical bill coverage"  

And to get them to do so you would have to add an option OPD cover that would increase your premium 20 - 50% or more. ????

[Mac98]

if you can't get approved for insurance, or can't afford what is, then you should be able to sign a waiver: No treatment above (fill in the blank). Like signing to pull the plug. Even Social Security pays enough death benefit to send you up the chimney.

 

 

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, cooked said:

Of course, starting now, ฿94 000, doubling, more or less, every 10 years. Easy. 

Some kind of repatriation insurance would be preferable for many, I get free treatment if I can get back 'home'.

Darn, back to the Elite! Or will that need insurance?

[DJ54]

6 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

They can't? or they don't want pay? 

Many rather cheap Thai insurances accepting nearly everyone,

by example https://www.viriyah.co.th/en/longstay-form.php#.XFud1nduJhE

I took a quick glance at it. The insurance is available to long term 5 year visa holders. There are exclusions which pre existing  heart conditions would most likely be excluded. 

 

A number of people can not get insurance or it’s priced so high 

it’s no way affordable. In US I tried to get insurance could not uninsurable due to heart operations. So I’ve paid out of my pocket.

 

 

 

[JLCrab]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

And to get them to do so you would have to add an option OPD cover that would increase your premium 20 - 50% or more. ????

I don't know but maybe you could arrange for 40K baht outpatient with a 140K baht deductible.