Crazy sin sod

[Skeptic7]

Don't pay it. 

[champers]

I have been to a sinsod party this morning in a rural village in Roi Et. The girl, 18, is my girlfriend's neice and a technical college student, the prospective groom, 27, is a professional singer from a nearby village. Both are Thai. Here is my account. I don't speak Thai, so some detail is from my gf, plus my interpretations of what I saw:

We arrived at the girl's at 9.30, an hour before the groom would arrive. About 20 people from the girl's family were there. The girl, her mum and her little sister were dressed in their best clothes. All the ladies were preparing food for the party.

At 10.30 the groom and 10 of his family arrived. They were all waid in and seated on a big mat in the living room. The food was then brought in for the guests and beer and soft drinks served for everyone. Eating was done after about 30 minutes, then silence descended on the room before the girl's grandma made a speech speaking for the girl. Following on, the boys grandad made a speech for his grandson. During the speeches, there were many asides and interjections from the audience plus much pointing and "interrogating" of the couple by their future in-laws. There was a lot of laughter, especially from the happy couple. Grandad's speech finished with him announcing the sinsod amount (200,000 Baht) to great cheers and applause and he laid down 20,000 Baht in new, crisp notes as a deposit. The bride to be and her mum crawled a couple of yards on their knees to collect the cash. The groom then presented the bride with a 3 Baht gold necklace (worth 40,000 Baht) and put it round her neck. The couple were then bound tigether with cotton threads and that was that.

The groom's party left and it was all over in an hour.

My gf told me the sinsod had been agreed some time ago and the party was a traditional way of marking what we would know as an engagement. The date of the wedding is yet to be decided. When it takes place the balance of the sinsod will be paid.

I enjoyed the occasion (free beer) and am looking forward to the wedding. I already know the bride and many of her relatives and I am always treated especially well by them.

The groom's grandad picked me out after, as the only farang, for a chat and a photo. From his manner and bearing I guessed he was an army man and so he was, though now retired.

I enjoyed my morning; the party was not too formal, respectful all round and good fun without going out of control into wanton drunkenness.

Should you ever get an invite to similar, accept and go is my advice.

[finnishmen]

my thai wife say, falang have big idiot if pay million sin sod. i not pay anythink, my wife work good job coverment office and no need sin sod, ewery not need, friend go marry and wife mother say sin sod we not live history, no need today newer. i no has newer hear any falang has pay sin sot more than 100 000B and all refurn sameday after wedding party. some family need warranty to mother and father little about 1.200 000b but not more. i has hear only idiot usa mens has pay million because have lot money and not anythink brains, smart men ask first many people, if believe woman and him family, have big idiot. go fast and far if come woman and want million sin sod. not have true today. not newer.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

I gave my wife's family a donkey, two excellent fighting cocks and a hamster in lieu of sin sot; they were delighted, they ate the donkey and they win a regular stream of money at the local bon gai with the cocks. The hamster? Well, he married without sin sot and now my wife's family's house is overrun with rodents. 

[Alainpm]

1 minute ago, ThaiFelix said:

It doesnt matter what you do, you will still be labeled a cheap charlie!  I just tell them to go grow their own money tree!

 she was not a bad girl and the sad thing is that we loved each other  ..   In our culture here in France :  she would have been well accepted and helped to integrate here in France, with free healthcare, right to work after 6 months. But she would miss her country, family weather, food, etc... In the continuation, after the 5 years here in France, after our departure to live in Thailand,  i would always be considered as an alien in Thailand, in spite of all my efforts to integrate, and also forbidden to work, having to pay a lot for health insurance and not being able to own my house... 

  ...  That subject makes memories come back.. All was not all black or all white.. and it leaves a taste of something unachieved. But this was to be expected in some way, as we could only meet several weeks twice a year but were in video contact with each other 3 hours a day in spite of her hard, time consuming work.   I don't complain and will use this experience  in my future choices. And I wish her the best in her life as she is a good person, I know that.  But the right thing is to meet a girl  in Thailand once one is settled there, with the opportulity to spend enough time with her and see if we are really compatible.. Because there are lots of good girls there and whose families are more reasonable and goodsensed  than the one I met. 

I want to forget that story... 

[PatOngo]

Two simple words could solve your problem, the last being …. off!

[newatthis]

7 minutes ago, Alainpm said:

 she was not a bad girl and the sad thing is that we loved each other  ..   In our culture here in France :  she would have been well accepted and helped to integrate here in France, with free healthcare, right to work after 6 months. But she would miss her country, family weather, food, etc... In the continuation, after the 5 years here in France, after our departure to live in Thailand,  i would always be considered as an alien in Thailand, in spite of all my efforts to integrate, and also forbidden to work, having to pay a lot for health insurance and not being able to own my house... 

  ...  That subject makes memories come back.. All was not all black or all white.. and it leaves a taste of something unachieved. But this was to be expected in some way, as we could only meet several weeks twice a year but were in video contact with each other 3 hours a day in spite of her hard, time consuming work.   I don't complain and will use this experience  in my future choices. And I wish her the best in her life as she is a good person, I know that.  But the right thing is to meet a girl  in Thailand once one is settled there, with the opportulity to spend enough time with her and see if we are really compatible.. Because there are lots of good girls there and whose families are more reasonable and goodsensed  than the one I met. 

I want to forget that story... 

Yes, keep a good attitude. Well done.

[Andycoops]

Well if it is a family shakedown then my wife's niece who just got engaged this weekend in BKK have done a great job on her future husbands family, as his family spread a million baht on the plate. 

So that's Thai on Thai by the way. 

Not bad for a Isaan girl working as a nurse in BKK. 

[baansgr]

The whole sin sod thing is a rip off...thais give very little and its usually returned...anyone paying 100,000 or whatever is being taken for a ride

[baansgr]

22 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

Well if it is a family shakedown then my wife's niece who just got engaged this weekend in BKK have done a great job on her future husbands family, as his family spread a million baht on the plate. 

So that's Thai on Thai by the way. 

Not bad for a Isaan girl working as a nurse in BKK. 

Probably rented from one of the sin sod loan companies, or if real returned after the wedding

[bkkgriz]

You are a smart man. You got out before it was too late. One fewer member of the Pattaya balcony diving club, however.

[Enoon]

 

I have great respect for other peoples traditions.

 

But "participation"?

 

 

 

 

 

[taninthai]

Find some one nearer your own age and there will not be any sinsod needed , I would personally want more than 1 million if I had to go with a woman 21 years older than me.

[david555]

Sinsod explained from where they took it (wealthy family's who kept daughters in "good condition.." and good education …)

On page 2 the escape points to it , not to be asked for sinsod  ...????

But feel free to pay if you like ...

1104617874_Sin-SodDowry.pdf

[Tomahawk21]

5 hours ago, CharlieH said:

So, you had a decent test drive, and decided on a different model. Good call.

different model.

 

more like a cheaper model 555

[Tomahawk21]

2 hours ago, bkkgriz said:

You are a smart man. You got out before it was too late. One fewer member of the Pattaya balcony diving club, however.

not that smart ! considering marriage in the first place ! ????

[chicowoodduck]

Shakedown time....reminds do me, mine asked for the 1 million THB, my counter offer was ZERO!  I walked!  ????????????????????

[thailand49]

They should appreciate that you came along!  They should be thankful a Thai guy didn't pop her cherry and then take off and if that had happen it would be all good that is life in Thailand?  they should be giving you 1,000,000 but having a girl here in Thailand is like having cattle? They did you a favor by making their demands! Go milk another cow this time don't try to buy it!

[Satcommlee]

2 pigs and a chicken I paid.... 

[007cableguy]

When the word Sin sot/Dowry gets mentioned I just cancel it out as where I come from it’s expected the brides parents pay for the wedding etc!


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[RichardColeman]

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The writer of this post did well to get out when he did, because the power of the pu$$y can really send some pi$$ weak guys to the wall.

I speak from experience of knowing it happened to 95% of all Thai/UK marriages that I knew - though I divorced my first thai wife due to her expanding debt and bank fraud. 

My wife now is a Thai school teacher - zero sinsod. Happy. If family needs money I can help, financially depending.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

They should appreciate that you came along!  They should be thankful a Thai guy didn't pop her cherry and then take off and if that had happen it would be all good that is life in Thailand?  they should be giving you 1,000,000 but having a girl here in Thailand is like having cattle? They did you a favor by making their demands! Go milk another cow this time don't try to buy it!

 

Some of the attitudes make the mind boggle...    If you consider women cattle, thats what you'll end up with, someone who is viewed as a commodity by themselves and their family, consequently the 'purchasing party' is just the customer. 

 

There is a whole spectrum of intentions and attitudes towards sin-sod and the issue is multifaceted with varying traditions from area to area. But, one thing holds true throughout the whole issue of dating, marriage, sin-sod etc... if there is no mutual respect the ride is going to be rough. 

 

It would seem that in the case of the Op his (ex) girlfriends family (auntie) had little respect for him and saw this as little more than a financial opportunity. This is where the tradition of sin-sod has become bastardized as opportunists sweep in use 'culture' and 'tradition' to excuse their greed, it happens in Thai on Thai relationships too.

 

If the Sin-Sod is given back, it was for tradition and tradition only. If the Sin-Sod has been kept, its because of greed or the family need it and have taken their opportunity to profit, or they believe they are selling their daughter... Of course, this can be dressed up with 'they paid for their daughters education' or 'they are loosing a family earner' etc... but thats juvenile excuses which don't wash.

 

Some of the Sums here are astonishing... I know a lady (friend of my Wife) who's family received a lot (50 MB I think), the family kept it... (She's famous), having met them, I consider her family quite greedy and somewhat selfish - not at all the lovely people they pretend to be, the veil is thin and the facade easy to see through, I wonder if the guy was not better off staying well away. 

 

I think Sin-Sod as a tradition is ok all traditions come from somewhere and have developed over decades and centuries, but when the family keep the money its an indication of something wrong. 

 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

How was the sex?

[Alainpm]

3 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

How was the sex?

-Was as I expected, thank you so much for caring.. How kind ! 

[Destiny1990]

24 minutes ago, Alainpm said:

-Was as I expected, thank you so much for caring.. How kind ! 

About sin sod its either to make other people jealous especially female friends of the bride and or its some kind of a scam and or both. The final price always depends on the negotiation skills of the payer..(So the farang  always end up overpriced)

I don’t consider paying any sin sod and also i not going to show any gold stuff there are lots a chain snatchers here in Pattaya so why would I show any gold??

Sin sod its not my culture and so I don’t do it and i dont like the concept of it.

[Elkski]

I have a sinsod thread up. 

at first the idea and talk of sin sod was revolting and disgusting and caused much concern to my mind.  I spent a couple days reading and watching videos and things. Now I can understand the sin sod tradition.    It's a face, bragging thing.  Of course the start was 1 mil.  Actually it was more Thai style.   "How much you think? " I bit my lip and didn't give her my standard car salesman reply to that question, which is "zero".   the debate whether you should get married or not depends a lot on what type of man you are and if you can be happy with one woman for a long time.  I'm considering clipping my butterfly wings.     Im also  considering 400 k  sin Sod for show with 250k returned.  Mom has said she does not need any. I'm negotiating with gf her mom 30k and wife 120 k.  Girlfriend said maybe 50k for Mom and hundred for me.  It doesn't seem unreasonable.   GF will be leaving long term job and living her room in good location, if I dump her she needs to have some fall back.   I mean come on we're talking 1000  USD for Mom and 4000 USD for girlfriend.    I have read and watched videos where a lot of  uni girls say 100K or 200k. I have read many times thai Thai sin sod is returned.  I think overall social media has elevated the importance of sin sod. But no one really knows what is returned or not.   

 

wheredid this one poster get two good fighting cocks?

 

To the OP.  did I understand correctly that you visited her for 5 years a couple weeks twice each year?.  Did she ever visit you in France?  Why didn't you negotiate more?  How long have you stopped talking to her for is this a total done deal.  Maybe you need to be like Donald Trump he's such a good negotiator and dealmaker.  Not

[Beatriz]

This one escape from the slaughter house. I wish to open a special school(by word of mouth) to teach the Thai ladies the "Kamasutra" things, the techniques so to speak then the farangs will never be able to escape.

Not only techniques in bed also to understand the social etiquette(so important) that will raise their standards and also value.

“Sau Thai pai reung rian" (thai ladies go to school).

[Emdog]

15 hours ago, Bigz said:

Well I am quite the opposite. I did move into my fiancee's village, share their house with her mum and I'm content with village life. When it came to sin sod she wanted 200 thousand. I said you don't have to work as long you are with me, I give you every month 10 thousand (a good monthly salary in isan) I buy the all the food and pay the bills + plus the occasional holidays to neighbouring countries, your mother gets free food and no bills to pay so I will not give her a single baht for sin sod - take it or leave it. She and her mum sad ok. Sin sod is a scam if the girl is near 30 and over and if they have kids even worse. They have no value. A Thai man would never pay sin sod for a woman in that age. Don't be fooled with this cultural nonsense. Sin sod happens among Thais if the girl is young, no kids, no previous husbands - otherwise they should consider themselves lucky that someone willing to take them.

I reckon sin sod to cover years & years when she is off in France with new hubby and no job seems reasonable. Once in France she might/probably try to get more to send home, I'd imagine. 

Looks like you've adapted nicely to village life, but people are different. He should try a minimum of a month there before marriage and see if he is a good fit for that lifestyle.

I agree market price of a woman with a child in tow near her age is rather low. I'm thinking more of "doing the right thing" regarding her and her family and trying to keep things smooth. Sooner Westerners realise they are marrying not just the girl but the family (and larger expectations) the better. I would also check out if family does any sort of work, low paying or not. Would be a deal killer if they just sat on backsides expecting me to pay for all.

[Ctkong]

17 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

Why do you need advise, you left her

Sin sot is heavy in Thai culture. I pity the poor Thai lass who met you. She was doing her best to pacify the family .even pitting in someof her money to make it work. I guess money is more important to you than your love to her. Maybe it is not true love? 

Many posters here make fun and disdainful replies about sin sot which shows their lack of understanding of Thai culture and their ‘female buffalo’ concept. Once you take away their money making buffalo, who is going to take her place but the sin sot. If you value the western female culture of no sin sot, then marry one of them.

Why are you looking for eastern female? A liberated self independent Thai ladies that I had met with also came with their western feminist ideas. No different from western females.

[Ctkong]

My myanmar Chinese girlfriend stayed with me in Bangkok for past 15 years. Sin sot culture is also heavy in Chinese culture. Face thing as well as security for the parents old age. I told her no sin sot as we are not married in the traditional Chinese way. Her parent’s security, I will plan for. So we give them a monthly stipend. Also renovated their old house fully paid by my wife. So you pay one way or another.