A new visa paperwork problem for some expats?

[Joe Mcseismic]

6 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Did not answer did you because the system states 65k as an option,   so he may not have hospitalisation money,  shot yourself in the foot about 35k persons being low life. and not wanted here because of a liability,  re-cap.  a 65k person is a low life liability if he does not have 800k for emergency hospital.

Which is why I already stated that the next step will be compulsory medical insurance. Do try to keep up.

 

PS. I've called no one a "low life". That word has been used by you exclusively. Don't put words into my mouth.

I've been poor and I certainly don't judge people by their income. Unfortunately, Thai Immigration do........which is my whole point.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Joe Mcseismic

[ginjag]

5 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Which is why I already stated that the next step will be compulsory medical insurance. Do try to keep up.

 

PS. I've called no one a "low life". That word has been used by you exclusively. Don't put words into my mouth.

I've been poor and I certainly don't judge people by their income. Unfortunately, Thai Immigration do........which is my whole point.

Your money now and wify, and house and lifestyle are of no concern to me or anyone else.

My point about the 65k  person with no bank 800,000, is a liability is he not  ????  even more so than the 35k living alone elderly at least he does have an apartment to sell, and many a money lender will gladly take on his deeds for an amount,  The low life term I used was because of your boasting about YOU YOU and what you have....The post was about the 800,000 immigration safeguard,  but you never thought about the snob with 65k and NOWT in the bank.........then all the self flattery about YOUR wealth,   amazing  you are.    any way I made my point,  money is nothing, when it's your time to go.    

[Olmate]

56 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

 

I don't particularly like these new rules, but, what choice is there? It's like I said in my first post on this thread. Comply or, leave.

After 9 hours do you think you,ve convinced anyone to comply or leave?

[Nyezhov]

9 hours ago, rickb said:

I believe that many legitimate people are now suffering, due to more strenuous immigration laws brought about by many years of abuse of the system by those who lied and faked their way into staying in Thailand.   

You could say that about a lot of things. 

 

[Grusa]

10 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Immigration requirements for all retirees have got tougher to meet.

You either have to meet them, or leave.

Whether they make sense, or not, is beside the point. Thailand has the absolute right to set, modify, or change the requirements.

Nothing any foreigner can do about it except comply, or leave.

Or complain loud and long, bury head in sand, and wish it would all just go away......

[dallen52]

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I need more details about Vietnam's easy path for foreigners long-stay visa entitlement and the fees for this.

 

Should I check back with you tomorrow?

 

Next week?

Basing on a friend actually living there, after being here several years. 

The Visa is called Visa exemption certificate. 

Its renewal is 3 month or 6 months. 

Its working for him and he says to date he is much better off. 

 

Suggestion was look at this site and see what you think?

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=219

I'm only a messenger. 

But I will be going to see him shortly and I can see what he calls an acceptable way of life. 

 

[iamariva1957]

10 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Immigration requirements for all retirees have got tougher to meet.

You either have to meet them, or leave.

Whether they make sense, or not, is beside the point. Thailand has the absolute right to set, modify, or change the requirements.

Nothing any foreigner can do about it except comply, or leave.

On point you are correct; Thailand has the right to pass laws and enforce said laws.

However, it is not "besides the point" with regards to those laws making sense or not. Laws must make sense. Now, whether or not 'we' (Farangs) see that sense and not just the usual Thai lack of making sense is another issue all together.

 

Furthermore, There is a good deal that 'we' can do about it. We can complain, in a loud voice... with a somewhat fake smile on our faces, Yell at our Embassies, Write letters to everyone repeatedly. Do something, rather than just bending over and saying "Please sir, can I have another".

 

To simply "except" the nonsense that these new Immigration rules are demanding from us (except for those who are Chinese, and/or are what the Vegas Casinos call "Whales") and playing 'dead' and 'rolling over' is not a norm that any of us from the West know how to do with any great capability (the France and the US would be first on my list... followed Australia and then by the UK ... albeit with latter's usual Stiff Upper Lip). 

 

Those with Thai children (their own or those that they have 'accepted as their own') who have been here for years, these rules will eventually push them out and in so doing break up the all important Thai family unit. Not to mention separating the father from his children (have you seen how difficult it is to get Visa for ones Thai children into the EU, US, Australia, etc?). 

 

Also remember that with every foreigner that leaves, a part of the Thai economy leaves with him! For example (though not exclusively) , gone are the school payments, the Tops or Tesco's shopping bills, the car payments to the bank, and a slew of other financial responsibilities that upon his leaving will fall directly into the lap of the Thai family... moral or not. Oh, and let us not forget the medical payments for the grandparents house, utility bills, etc (I will leave the 'sick cow' out of it).

 

So I ask... Thai immigration, is this a good thing? That is the question you should be asking! For it is backward thinking, without a shred of Common Sense or Logic. You are shooting yourselves in the foot... with a 12 gauge shot gun!

 

But this is Thailand. Somewhat of a new one. One that thinks it is better than everyone/everywhere else and being the seat for ASEAN this year... and power brokers ruling the show... what do you expect.

 

As for "except it or leave"... yes.... that is an option. But again I ask you, what about the families, the children and the rest as mentioned above. 

 

It is easy to say "leave" but it another thing to actually do it without hurting those that you love and families that you have built or accepted as your own and been with for year upon year without breaking any laws and being a 'good neighbor'. To those that say "leave" perhaps you are right and we all should. Vietnam is beautiful and cheaper and a 12 month Visa is only $135 (multi-entry). But to leave because of stupidity and non-rational thought of the present government here... is not right. It is not right for their own people who have lives and children and who will be or have a very good chance of being put into hard times if 'we' leave.

 

Don't agree with me or do... that is up to you. All I ask is that you think about it and understand that there is a far greater negative impact than what at first glance is visible. 

[iamariva1957]

47 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Basing on a friend actually living there, after being here several years. 

The Visa is called Visa exemption certificate. 

Its renewal is 3 month or 6 months. 

Its working for him and he says to date he is much better off. 

 

Suggestion was look at this site and see what you think?

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=219

I'm only a messenger. 

But I will be going to see him shortly and I can see what he calls an acceptable way of life. 

 

as per their web site... $135 gets you a 12-month Visa in Vietnam. That is a Multi-entry Visa. Beat that Thailand. God I hope the election brings some good news for this country... which is shooting itself in the foot with a 12 gauge... well one can hope! 

[iamariva1957]

9 hours ago, high plane drifter said:

Fix the corruption problem and the visa problem won't exist anymore 

DAM RIGHT!

[killala]

Pure and utter nonsense. What a complete and farcical situation regarding the op’s predicament, just one more example of the pure <deleted> that’s Thai immigration. I’ve no issues financially meeting these latest requirements regarding a retirement visa but tbh I’ve had enough of jumping through unnecessary hoops

to keep it. I spend enough annually in this country and along with thousands more this revenue will be missed. 

[stevenl]

53 minutes ago, iamariva1957 said:

On point you are correct; Thailand has the right to pass laws and enforce said laws.

However, it is not "besides the point" with regards to those laws making sense or not. Laws must make sense. Now, whether or not 'we' (Farangs) see that sense and not just the usual Thai lack of making sense is another issue all together.

 

Furthermore, There is a good deal that 'we' can do about it. We can complain, in a loud voice... with a somewhat fake smile on our faces, Yell at our Embassies, Write letters to everyone repeatedly. Do something, rather than just bending over and saying "Please sir, can I have another".

 

To simply "except" the nonsense that these new Immigration rules are demanding from us (except for those who are Chinese, and/or are what the Vegas Casinos call "Whales") and playing 'dead' and 'rolling over' is not a norm that any of us from the West know how to do with any great capability (the France and the US would be first on my list... followed Australia and then by the UK ... albeit with latter's usual Stiff Upper Lip). 

 

Those with Thai children (their own or those that they have 'accepted as their own') who have been here for years, these rules will eventually push them out and in so doing break up the all important Thai family unit. Not to mention separating the father from his children (have you seen how difficult it is to get Visa for ones Thai children into the EU, US, Australia, etc?). 

 

Also remember that with every foreigner that leaves, a part of the Thai economy leaves with him! For example (though not exclusively) , gone are the school payments, the Tops or Tesco's shopping bills, the car payments to the bank, and a slew of other financial responsibilities that upon his leaving will fall directly into the lap of the Thai family... moral or not. Oh, and let us not forget the medical payments for the grandparents house, utility bills, etc (I will leave the 'sick cow' out of it).

 

So I ask... Thai immigration, is this a good thing? That is the question you should be asking! For it is backward thinking, without a shred of Common Sense or Logic. You are shooting yourselves in the foot... with a 12 gauge shot gun!

 

But this is Thailand. Somewhat of a new one. One that thinks it is better than everyone/everywhere else and being the seat for ASEAN this year... and power brokers ruling the show... what do you expect.

 

As for "except it or leave"... yes.... that is an option. But again I ask you, what about the families, the children and the rest as mentioned above. 

 

It is easy to say "leave" but it another thing to actually do it without hurting those that you love and families that you have built or accepted as your own and been with for year upon year without breaking any laws and being a 'good neighbor'. To those that say "leave" perhaps you are right and we all should. Vietnam is beautiful and cheaper and a 12 month Visa is only $135 (multi-entry). But to leave because of stupidity and non-rational thought of the present government here... is not right. It is not right for their own people who have lives and children and who will be or have a very good chance of being put into hard times if 'we' leave.

 

Don't agree with me or do... that is up to you. All I ask is that you think about it and understand that there is a far greater negative impact than what at first glance is visible. 

You do realise that for Chinese visa requirementsare tougher than for westerners? 

All this moaning about the Chinese having it easy is simply nonsense.

[rosst]

12 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Immigration requirements for all retirees have got tougher to meet.

You either have to meet them, or leave.

Whether they make sense, or not, is beside the point. Thailand has the absolute right to set, modify, or change the requirements.

Nothing any foreigner can do about it except comply, or leave.

Yes, the above statement covers it but terrible damage to the people who have Thai partners, I voted with my feet, I am in the Philippines and happy I moved.  Is it paradise?  No but I am happy and have a whole lot more security of tenure, nice people. 

[nahkit]

10 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

12 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Yes Mr DPKANKAN, it is sad, but, what do you propose to do about it?

Besides reacting with negative emojis to posts that "state the obvious"?

Here's a thought. How about stating what you think is wrong in my posts?

......and that goes for the rest of you whiners and moaners. 

Thaivisa hits a new low. posters replying to themselves.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, nahkit said:

Thaivisa hits a new low. posters replying to themselves.

It was a reinforcement, not a reply.

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, ginjag said:

Did you read and understand or are you just slagging all who do not have the NOW required 800,000.  my point being when owning a condo and are a home type person elderly 76 years,   there is no out goings only food.  and with a UK pension being more than a Thai school teacher,  My 30,000 per month for food etc is making me live like a king.

It more than pays for any medical   TRUE, every 3 months I have enough to fly to the UK because of it accruing.

This is not getting round the New requirements but merely pointing out, that us low life ex pats, are an asset not a liability. A condo worth 800,000 is more than a safeguard if emergency hospitalisation is needed.   So enough of your snide remarks when posters are making a point.

So on your hospital bed after almost dying from an accident you are hurriedly going to sell your condo to pay for the treatment.

 

There are general rules people have to meet, it would be unworkable to adjust to individual needs: own condo yes/no, kids yes/no, schoolfees yes/no, monthly food under/over 20k, more/ less than twice a week to the bar, etc.

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 hours ago, Olmate said:

After 9 hours do you think you,ve convinced anyone to comply or leave?

Why would I care?

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 hours ago, iamariva1957 said:

On point you are correct; Thailand has the right to pass laws and enforce said laws.

However, it is not "besides the point" with regards to those laws making sense or not. Laws must make sense. Now, whether or not 'we' (Farangs) see that sense and not just the usual Thai lack of making sense is another issue all together.

 

Furthermore, There is a good deal that 'we' can do about it. We can complain, in a loud voice... with a somewhat fake smile on our faces, Yell at our Embassies, Write letters to everyone repeatedly. Do something, rather than just bending over and saying "Please sir, can I have another".

 

To simply "except" the nonsense that these new Immigration rules are demanding from us (except for those who are Chinese, and/or are what the Vegas Casinos call "Whales") and playing 'dead' and 'rolling over' is not a norm that any of us from the West know how to do with any great capability (the France and the US would be first on my list... followed Australia and then by the UK ... albeit with latter's usual Stiff Upper Lip). 

 

Those with Thai children (their own or those that they have 'accepted as their own') who have been here for years, these rules will eventually push them out and in so doing break up the all important Thai family unit. Not to mention separating the father from his children (have you seen how difficult it is to get Visa for ones Thai children into the EU, US, Australia, etc?). 

 

Also remember that with every foreigner that leaves, a part of the Thai economy leaves with him! For example (though not exclusively) , gone are the school payments, the Tops or Tesco's shopping bills, the car payments to the bank, and a slew of other financial responsibilities that upon his leaving will fall directly into the lap of the Thai family... moral or not. Oh, and let us not forget the medical payments for the grandparents house, utility bills, etc (I will leave the 'sick cow' out of it).

 

So I ask... Thai immigration, is this a good thing? That is the question you should be asking! For it is backward thinking, without a shred of Common Sense or Logic. You are shooting yourselves in the foot... with a 12 gauge shot gun!

 

But this is Thailand. Somewhat of a new one. One that thinks it is better than everyone/everywhere else and being the seat for ASEAN this year... and power brokers ruling the show... what do you expect.

 

As for "except it or leave"... yes.... that is an option. But again I ask you, what about the families, the children and the rest as mentioned above. 

 

It is easy to say "leave" but it another thing to actually do it without hurting those that you love and families that you have built or accepted as your own and been with for year upon year without breaking any laws and being a 'good neighbor'. To those that say "leave" perhaps you are right and we all should. Vietnam is beautiful and cheaper and a 12 month Visa is only $135 (multi-entry). But to leave because of stupidity and non-rational thought of the present government here... is not right. It is not right for their own people who have lives and children and who will be or have a very good chance of being put into hard times if 'we' leave.

 

Don't agree with me or do... that is up to you. All I ask is that you think about it and understand that there is a far greater negative impact than what at first glance is visible. 

Righto. You go ahead and complain vociferously and let's see how far it gets you.....

[greeneking]

13 hours ago, rickb said:

I believe that many legitimate people are now suffering, due to more strenuous immigration laws brought about by many years of abuse of the system by those who lied and faked their way into staying in Thailand.   

What was the big problem that had to be solved?  Why the paranoia?

Has anything been solved? Is anyone happier?  Maybe publishers re-writing and re-writing the latest changes. Oh, probably not them either.

Many lies and fakes happened to support Thai incomes.

[Joe Mcseismic]

Lot of people here can't differentiate between the message and the messenger.

And no.....I couldn't give a small rodent's furry backside about what anyone thinks of me. I Can adapt to the changing circumstances. If you can too, good on yer. If you can't, tough sh1t. Bye bye.

[ginjag]

26 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So on your hospital bed after almost dying from an accident you are hurriedly going to sell your condo to pay for the treatment.

 

There are general rules people have to meet, it would be unworkable to adjust to individual needs: own condo yes/no, kids yes/no, schoolfees yes/no, monthly food under/over 20k, more/ less than twice a week to the bar, etc.

Just forget about the condo and me on a hospital bed, irrelevant.       The 800,000 was supposed to protect Thailand from lower income ex pats.    My point being if a 65k a month ex pat living a high life here because he can --fine, but where is his 800,000 bond if he is hospitalised  ???

It is a known fact if an ex pat has 35k a month he can live a very comfortable life, the same as a senior school teacher.  Normally with a bigger monthly income most live accordingly the same as incomes in the UK.   It IS Immigration to make the rules, but I say again if a slightly lower income person has to have 800,000 as a bond then the 65k punters should also have this,  as the biggest fear according to Thailand is the ex pat that maybe could not afford his hospital bill.

so the 35k and the 65k ex pat should have 800,00 bond, how he spends his income is up to him.

[Pattaya46]

deleted  (because in Phuket Forum and Phuket may be different...)

Edited March 18, 2019 by Pattaya46

[KhaoYai]

17 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Friend of mine is having to do similar for his THAI wife. He has to fly to the UK though as she was previously married to an English guy and Thai Immigration want proof they are legally married to proceed his extension of stay.

I'm pretty sure the British Embassy in Bangkok will certify his marriage certificate.

[stevenl]

So this thread started as a complaint about Thai immigration new rules.

 

Now we know that in the respect the op has complained about nothing has changed, to claim married entitlements you have to prove you are married.

The burocracy he is complaining about is caused by China.

[Olmate]

9 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Why would I care?

Exactly, you don,t ! Why spend your valuable time when no one cares what you say

[Old Croc]

This thread started as a complaint from a retiree, with a dependent from a third country, expressing frustration at the excessive hoops he is being asked to jump through to prove his long term marriage is genuine. It is just another example of Thai bureaucracy, and has little to do with the recent tightening up of financial requirements for retiree extensions. I'm sure the OP will find a way around this and his wife's application will prevail. 

Yet, it has evolved into another of the scores of topics for people to complain bitterly, and blame everyone but themselves, for the difficulty they have in meeting what has always been the requirement for the visa/extension.  Essentially, the financial rules for retirement extensions hasn't really changed, it's still 800k in the bank or 65k per month. What has changed is the fact that genuine proof is required that the applicant meets those financial requirements.

Whether it is because of currency devaluations, static pensions or simply that Thailand never previously  checked bogus financial claims, many long term expats are now finding themselves unable to meet the conditions, and facing an uncertain future in this country. Sad, and very worrying for many, but their inability to meet the requirements, and the lack of foresight in predicting that possibility, is on the individual, no one else.

To blame Thai corruption for your own corruption, or to vent at people who have worked and saved to meet an adopted county's' visa requirements, only proves a lack maturity and responsibility for your own actions.

It doesn't matter if you have scratched out a reasonable life in Thailand on 20 or30k a month nor that you have contributed to families and the local economy in a small way. The only thing that matters is that Thai law requires you to have a certain level of income, or savings held in country, to obtain this visa/extension.

it's up to each individual to base their life in Thailand on tangibles, not hope nor desire.   

[Olmate]

800 K previously to spend, now not touch, surely a big change, and as for scratching a living on 30 K...? Thread also has plenty of comment (generally off  topic) from the I,m OK brigade ,so nothing different in this thread in that regard

[ginjag]

23 minutes ago, Olmate said:

800 K previously to spend, now not touch, surely a big change, and as for scratching a living on 30 K...? Thread also has plenty of comment (generally off  topic) from the I,m OK brigade ,so nothing different in this thread in that regard

A sad choice to make, maybe Immigration is quietly working with TAT to push people into 500,000, 5 years elite.  ???  because of the very high 65k requirement,  or a near permanent 800,000.   if he does pay out 500,000  (100,000) per year visa fee, he loses savings in old age to protect his family here ??.....if he does not follow this path  he HAS TO LEAVE.

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, ginjag said:

A sad choice to make, maybe Immigration is quietly working with TAT to push people into 500,000, 5 years elite.  ???  because of the very high 65k requirement,  or a near permanent 800,000.   if he does pay out 500,000  (100,000) per year visa fee, he loses savings in old age to protect his family here ??.....if he does not follow this path  he HAS TO LEAVE.

To add,  most school teachers scratch a living on 30k, and pay a mortgage, and car on the never.  having insurance and a paid for condo 30k is very nice thankyou for a single old ex pat  (who is a liability )   ha ha ha

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

This thread started as a complaint from a retiree, with a dependent from a third country, expressing frustration at the excessive hoops he is being asked to jump through to prove his long term marriage is genuine. It is just another example of Thai bureaucracy, and has little to do with the recent tightening up of financial requirements for retiree extensions. I'm sure the OP will find a way around this and his wife's application will prevail. 

Yet, it has evolved into another of the scores of topics for people to complain bitterly, and blame everyone but themselves, for the difficulty they have in meeting what has always been the requirement for the visa/extension.  Essentially, the financial rules for retirement extensions hasn't really changed, it's still 800k in the bank or 65k per month. What has changed is the fact that genuine proof is required that the applicant meets those financial requirements.

Whether it is because of currency devaluations, static pensions or simply that Thailand never previously  checked bogus financial claims, many long term expats are now finding themselves unable to meet the conditions, and facing an uncertain future in this country. Sad, and very worrying for many, but their inability to meet the requirements, and the lack of foresight in predicting that possibility, is on the individual, no one else.

To blame Thai corruption for your own corruption, or to vent at people who have worked and saved to meet an adopted county's' visa requirements, only proves a lack maturity and responsibility for your own actions.

It doesn't matter if you have scratched out a reasonable life in Thailand on 20 or30k a month nor that you have contributed to families and the local economy in a small way. The only thing that matters is that Thai law requires you to have a certain level of income, or savings held in country, to obtain this visa/extension.

it's up to each individual to base their life in Thailand on tangibles, not hope nor desire.   

Agree with you, except for the part about Thai bureaucracy. Al;l the Thai want is a proven genuine marriage certificate, it is Chinese bureaucracy that is making it difficult to obtain that.

[edwinchester]

9 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I'm pretty sure the British Embassy in Bangkok will certify his marriage certificate.

That is not the problem. Thai Immigration want it notarized in the UK and stamped by the Thai Embassy in London, confirmed by a trip to Chaeng Wattana head office.

He was told that this was a recent change and what could previously have been done in Thailand now, for whatever reason, needs to be done back in the UK.