Hi Guys , I have a very weird problem , 5 year old house in the village  ( diagram attached ) all of a sudden the house pump has started cycling on & off ...did the first obvious check & isolated all internal taps , toilets , hot water , kitchen... no change . I then separated the garden water supply & house water supply by installing an extra tap , this enabled me to isolate both areas independently , in the process of  adding the tap I had to isolate the tank & the pump drained out while fitting the extra tap . I then opened the taps , the pump came on & switched off without an issue & the cycling stopped ...this lasted about 5 days , then the pump started cycling again , to a point today where its cycling every minute . If I isolate the house the cycling stops , I cannot accept that a pipe must be broken under the house as it stopped cycling for 5 days !!! I have had the local guy swap the pressure switch over & it did nothing to solve the problem.... what am I missing ? any quick advice greatly appreciated . Cheers 

I think most of the house pump and water pipe guys are in the DIY forum so will move topic there

Not clear what type of pump you have but most have a pressure tank that must have an air cushion.  If a hole in tank or bladder that would be lost until next time emptied and refilled (which seems to be what happened with your 5 day cure).  Can't remember if there is another valve other than pressure switch but if not likely need a new tank. 

 

(believe there is an air exchange valve that can become an issue from my use years ago and not expensive to replace - and opening/cleaning may be all that is required).

21 minutes ago, cdmtdm said:

I cannot accept that a pipe must be broken under the house as it stopped cycling for 5 days !!!

Either you have a joint that is failing, an outlet that is leaking or a cracked pipe 

@ lopburi the pump has no bladder , just works on the pressure switch , @sometime woodworker if a pipe was cracked or leaking then how did it stop for 5 days ? 

When you find out let me know i have a similar problem once again its sporadic  issue happening few times a day only

I share your frustration 

I had this, long story short, the ground sinks, underground pipe got fractured.

Had to seal off that pipe and run a new one. I wasnt about to dig up many square metres of concrete and tiles !

Re-check your toilets.  I have had problems with ball-cocks that get a tiny leak off and on.

Me again!

My problem or one of them i suspect is sediment blocking pipes an pump as we are remote and on local water (i clean my filter monthly and its basically mud in it)

we had water outage few days when water returned off course it was like diesel the pump started stuttering cutting in and out farting etc. i cleaned as best could and let water run clear through all taps

its been ok for 2 days now

 

 

@Charlie I would accept that however if it is a broken pipe it would leak continuously ...it stopped for 5 days ...@bank I isolated the toilet taps & also the hws & kitchen ....but continued cycling 

3 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Re-check your toilets.  I have had problems with ball-cocks that get a tiny leak off and on.

Ah yes i forgot Change your "toilet ball cockly inlet value thingy*" mine was full of silt that stopped it for months prior to this episode

*apologies for non compliant plumbing terms

 

I found an old thread that fixed the problem by adding non return valves , can anyone agree based on the diagram I sent with my post ? currently no non return valves ( check valves ) added .

3 minutes ago, cdmtdm said:

I found an old thread that fixed the problem by adding non return valves , can anyone agree based on the diagram I sent with my post ? currently no non return valves ( check valves ) added .

More often than not, NR valves cause the problem when they develop a leak.  Never heard of one to fix a problem like this.

 

Valves in Thailand are almost all crap though.  Don't know why - maybe the high calcium content, but I have replace many more than I reasonably should have.

@bank the house is higher than the tank entry point from the village water supply , with no NR valves in place is it possible that its running back from the house through the pump & making the pump cycle ? 

Tell us what make and model the pump is (or post a picture) and we'll take it from there.

What kind of pump?

Do you mean tap or valve on the diagram?

Check to see if your holding tank is nearly full.

Check toilets as suggested. Wipe the bowl dry above the water line. All it takes is a little trickle to make the smaller pumps cycle like that. If your water is high calcium you may have deposits on the seal of the toilet tank. I’m betting this is the problem.


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@NanLaew mitsubishi  pump 

@DepDavid

 

the taps on the diagram are isolating valves .... pump is a mitsi ...the toilets have isolation valves on them & after isolating them both, the  problem is still there ...cycling .

@DepDavid

 

holding tank is full & float valve working 

1 hour ago, cdmtdm said:

@ lopburi the pump has no bladder , just works on the pressure switch , @sometime woodworker if a pipe was cracked or leaking then how did it stop for 5 days ? 

Are you sure it has no bladder/diaphragm believe all these pumps have one built in?

@cgw if I isolate the pump by closing the valves then the pump cycles off and holds it without cycling.

3 minutes ago, cdmtdm said:

@cgw if I isolate the pump by closing the valves then the pump cycles off and holds it without cycling.

???? Try this old thread for inspiration? 

 

thanks @CGW I had the pump checked & as I mentioned it does cycle off and hold pressure if the house is isolated....

58 minutes ago, cdmtdm said:

I found an old thread that fixed the problem by adding non return valves , can anyone agree based on the diagram I sent with my post ? currently no non return valves ( check valves ) added .

 

The pump has a built-in non-return valve on the inlet side, it may have gotten some crud in it or just worn out. A second external valve on the inlet may solve your issue.

 

When ours was doing the same thing one could actually hear the valve whistling whilst the pump was off.

 

@crossy thx I was unaware it had one internally , will give it a shot & if not fit a second valve ....can you explain how it siphons back into village water ? 

The sun has done a number on the cover. Underneath it should look like this.

 

 

The vertical cylinder is the bladder. The integral check valve is under one of the plastic screw top. There will be a spring so remove slowly. You can buy both at a Mitsubishi pump shop/hardware store. 

 

If it doesn't cycle with the house isolated it probably isn't the bladder but.....you can check it with a chopstick or.........

thank @VocalNeal

1 hour ago, cdmtdm said:

@NanLaew mitsubishi  pump 

Having had a similar problem, AFICR, with a similar pump it turned out to be the flow switch, it is a completely potted unit so you have to replace the complete module somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 including EMS shipping from Bangkok.

 

The intermittent nature of the problem is characteristic of the electronics slowly kicking the bucket.

I am not at the house so I am trying to relay this to my wife brother .... is this the check valve on the pump as per my photo ? if yes does anyone have a schematic or an image of what is inside once the cap is removed ? I need to guide them through this first before I get him to instal a non return valve on the house line ...

I am not at the house so I am trying to relay this to my wife brother .... is this the check valve on the pump as per my photo ? if yes does anyone have a schematic or an image of what is inside once the cap is removed ? I need to guide them through this first before I get him to instal a non return valve on the house line ...

A spring and valve.

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