Police suspect murder in hanging death of retired Dutch teacher

[garzhe]

25 minutes ago, NightSky said:

why is the uniformed man in the photo laughing at the murder scene?

His colleague is reporting a suicide !

[Tarteso]

29 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

she says she is going back to Bangkok to work the bars again.  Poor guy.  RIP.

With the pension, I guess.

[xtrnuno41]

I know a Thai couple, no farangs in it, they also have both their houses. Identical next to each other.

THey are married for many years, but live separately together.

[Superphoenix]

The guy in the back is laughing. I am wondering what exactly must be so funny in the situation.????

[ScotBkk]

2 hours ago, paulbrow said:

I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that it would be very difficult to: 1) tie your own hands behind your back, and 2) then hang yourself.... just saying...

It seems quite the norm in Thailand to create amazing death feats to confuse police for cause of Death. Like commiting suicide whilst hanging in a closet with both hands tied whilst attached to a cord dangling in pleasure, embracing auto erotic asphyxiation acted out by … David Carradine on vocation in Thailand. It's something in the air I think. Get to Thailand, enjoy the sights, stay on or commit Hari Kari.........albeit helped out by family members..... bombing off a balcony seems quite popular .......

[Dogmatix]

25 minutes ago, khunpa said:

 

I knew a couple Here in Thailand who lived the same way. He was over 60 and she was 30 years younger.

 

My wife often talked with the woman, who was bored to death about the relationship, but seemed very interested in his house.

 

Heard he signed over the house to her not long ago. So guess she is now happy and just waiting for a heart attack ????

 

Its amazing how some couples live.

Most find they have to sign the house over to her from the get go because they are not allowed to own land and it doesn't occur to them that it would be safer to just rent somewhere not in her village.

[soistalker]

Never marry a thai woman.

But if you do, dont allow her relatives to live with you.

But if you do, dont allow them to siphon your resources without paying a dime (yes, not in the story, but it isnt a stretch). 

But if you do, dont be surprised if they conspire to murder you and take everything they can get their greedy hands on.

[Dogmatix]

31 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

With the pension, I guess.

One can imagine that the wife, her brother and the rest of her family really hated the Dutchman for being a stingy farang in their eyes.  The hatred was probably intensified by her complaints about his dreadful meanness which she had to exaggerate in the face of relentless pressure from the family to get money for them. He probably never really understood all this, as he just saw himself from the farang perspective as a kindly retired teacher who had sunk his savings into building her the house of her dreams in her dirt poor village and was sharing his teacher's pension for them to eke out a modest existence. He probably thought he had done his bit after paying for the house and was unprepared for the constant demands for cash for pick-ups, morsais, TVs, stereos, school fees for cousins, hospital fees for elderly relatives and expenses for planting crops without share of any profits. The last straw may have been when she stormed off to hawk her butt in the city again, probably giving an unflattering account of her husband's explanation of why he was unable to come up with the case (because he didn't have it). Perhaps he actually told her was unhappy enough about her departure, even they seemed to be practically estranged already, to contemplate suicide, as well as telling his own family in Holland. Then she may have tipped the wink to her brother that, if he didn't do it himself, the brother and maybe a few mates should give him a helping hand. That would explain why he ended up battered and bruised with his hands tied behind his back.  I hope the police do a thorough investigation. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Dogmatix

[mikecha]

RIP countryman  sad way to go  

[Nanaplaza666]

Brother's name jaidee ?? I geuss not so jaidee . 

[madmen]

The elephant in the room is why would the killer leave the zip Thais on? but its  not hard to zip tie your hands behind your back. No knots to Tie. Just push your head through the noose and jump. Maybe he wanted his wife to get set up for it...or maybe not

[wolf81]

Being married his wife would be eligible to receive his retirement money from The Netherlands. I would indeed check if this guy is indeed her brother, cause my first suspicion would be that he is her secret lover and they wanted to get rid of him in order to live together from his retirement money.

 

She might not have wanted to be directly involved in the murder, so together they might have conspired for her to go to Bangkok while he would perform the murder.

 

Of course this is all just speculation, but it'd be something worthwhile to look into.

Edited May 28, 2019 by wolf81

[Tropposurfer]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed. I remember reading a long time ago that many suicides by hanging involved securing the hands. Apparently, if not, instinct kicks in and the struggle for life such that many would-be suicides would prevent their own hanging attempt.

 

However reading all the circumstances here, separate lives after 2 years of marriage, younger "brother" living-in; wife away; bruising to ribs - hmmm, Seems the police are right to be suspicious.

Correct about self-tying, it's far more common, quite common in self-harm completions.

[SuperTed]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Precha Jaidee,

Precha good heart. How much of the Frenchman's wealth will he spread around to get away with this crime. Never let family into the house. Never.

[Razek]

61 years old

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Indeed. I remember reading a long time ago that many suicides by hanging involved securing the hands. Apparently, if not, instinct kicks in and the struggle for life such that many would-be suicides would prevent their own hanging attempt.

 

However reading all the circumstances here, separate lives after 2 years of marriage, younger "brother" living-in; wife away; bruising to ribs - hmmm, Seems the police are right to be suspicious.

Agreed. I wonder if the police have checked if the brother really is the brother. In the last house that I lived the farang who had the house opposite used to work in the Middle East for long periods. Every time he went away, his Thai wife's "brother" used to move in "because she was nervous on her own" according to the farang. He may well have been her brother, but he gave her a big sloppy kiss every morning before he went to work. 

[ttrd]

4 hours ago, paulbrow said:

I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that it would be very difficult to: 1) tie your own hands behind your back, and 2) then hang yourself.... just saying...

With the right Connection the conclusion can be that he did it simultaneously ...

 

Hopefully the one(s) who performed the groteque action will be taken and convicted … 

 

RIP

[laspalmas]

Many documentaries on youtube about greedy wives / husbands  in US
who kill spouses for money. So this is not just Thai/farang ...This is a problem

in societies built around money with large income inequality.

[johng50]

Married to a younger Thai woman, Thai young brother living with them, arguments, thai wife leaves and he hangs himself because he cant contact her, NOT LIKELY, he wasnt that old, still a lot of good years left in him, looks like she was riding the money, im surprised thai police even investigated seeing he was farang and the other side were Thai. Somehow i dont think it was Herb who sent emails to his relatives threatening suicide, seems far fetched. Im sure he would have phoned his relatives, anyone can write an email. thai wife was gone 4 days to bangkok, no contact, shows how much she wanted to be married. IMO i would say a plan between the thai wife and brother, but as thais are not that clever, i think they going to get caught out,

especially as Herbs relatives and the embassy are now involved. 

[DogNo1]

As someone who watches murder mysteries on Centre Point’s channel 28 every night at 10:45, I see murders with surprising perpetrators.  The murderer finally caught last night was a man who had evaded detection until an investigator, on a whim, had a 20-year-old rape kit’s vaginal fluids’ DNA evaluated.  The murderer turned out to her father who, when she was 13, had raped her, strangled her, stripped her body and left her by the side of the road so she would be discovered quickly and thus allow him to collect her $10,000 life insurance payout.  The police finally extracted a confession from him but he never showed any perceptible remorse.

 

Those types of murders probably exist in Thailand, but I have never read of a father-daughter murder on Thai Visa during my 15+ years as a member.

[Mitkof Island]

And where did he meet his lovely wife ?

[Burma Bill]

Threatened and pestered for MONEY?? RIP teacher.

[Ian Pickles]

Do they also suspect murder when someone shoots themselves in the head twice? They need inspector Clueseau on it. (Sorry if I spelled that wrong).

[mike787]

Of course it's murder, it's Thailand, most foreigners die by some sort of murder, cut, hung, or fall from tall buildings.  DUH!

[Rocking Robert]

Do you have to be married for a certain amount of time. To be eligible for his pension? I would think so

[Odysseus123]

Was he worth more dead than alive?

 

RIP/

[Isaanbiker]

Sixty one year old Herb Elmes (name transliterated from Thai) was found hanging outside a house that he shared with his 40 year old wife Cha-orn Elmes and her younger brother Precha Jaidee, 38.

 

  The answer can be found here. Her brother. RIP, Dutchman. 

 

   "Jaidee" was for sure a good hearted guy to your wife. 

[Enoon]

3 hours ago, NightSky said:

why is the uniformed man in the photo laughing at the murder scene?

 

"In everyday life in Thailand, there is a strong emphasis on the concept of sanuk; the idea that life should be fun. Because of this, Thais can be quite playful at work and during day-to-day activities."

 

Culture of Thailand - Wikipedia

 

 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

One can imagine that the wife, her brother and the rest of her family really hated the Dutchman for being a stingy farang in their eyes.  The hatred was probably intensified by her complaints about his dreadful meanness which she had to exaggerate in the face of relentless pressure from the family to get money for them. He probably never really understood all this, as he just saw himself from the farang perspective as a kindly retired teacher who had sunk his savings into building her the house of her dreams in her dirt poor village and was sharing his teacher's pension for them to eke out a modest existence. He probably thought he had done his bit after paying for the house and was unprepared for the constant demands for cash for pick-ups, morsais, TVs, stereos, school fees for cousins, hospital fees for elderly relatives and expenses for planting crops without share of any profits. The last straw may have been when she stormed off to hawk her butt in the city again, probably giving an unflattering account of her husband's explanation of why he was unable to come up with the case (because he didn't have it). Perhaps he actually told her was unhappy enough about her departure, even they seemed to be practically estranged already, to contemplate suicide, as well as telling his own family in Holland. Then she may have tipped the wink to her brother that, if he didn't do it himself, the brother and maybe a few mates should give him a helping hand. That would explain why he ended up battered and bruised with his hands tied behind his back.  I hope the police do a thorough investigation. 

I honestly hope they do, if only to stop such ridiculous, long-winded, speculative and totally unsubstantiated drivel like this.

[Humpy]

Who said his hands were tied behind his back ?