Johnson warns EU against any 'Napoleonic' tariffs in no-deal Brexit

[Rimmer]

A vitriolic troll post and two replies have been removed. 

 

I have an idea instead of replying to a troll post USE THE REPORT BUTTON and let us remove the post and them with it

[stephenterry]

23 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"the £39B is an agreed 'estimate' at this stage, because UK's outstanding expenditure and returned assets from the EU need to be quantified and audited if and when the UK legally leaves the EU."

 

Perhaps you should explain this to some of the other remainers on this thread, as they are convinced that 39 bn is a 'done deal' as it was 'agreed' between the eu and May......

The 'done deal' relating to the divorce agreement is what the UK has committed to - the quantification of the net amount is yet to be finalised and audited, but should be in the £39b ballpark.

 

This agreement depends on the WAG being passed by parliament and for the UK to have legally left the EU. In the event of a no-deal, there is no legal 'divorce' settlement agreement, but it is unlikely any UK government would not honour outstanding committments. Again, that amount would have to be agreed. 

 

In global government terms, £39b is small beer. Since 2016 Brexit has cost to the economy £87b and increasing by £600m a week.

Edited June 28, 2019 by stephenterry
addition to text.

[petemoss]

Regarding the divorce bill. The EU insisted that this was put to bed before any other negotiations could take place. The UK started the bidding at 25bn. The EU started bidding at 72bn. They settled on 39bn. Do the maths, who made the biggest compromise?

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by petemoss

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, petemoss said:

Regarding the divorce bill. The EU insisted that this was put to bed before any other negotiations could take place. The UK started the bidding at 25bn. The EU started bidding at 72bn. They settled on 39bn. Do the maths, who made the biggest compromise?

 

 

We are not playing 'Bargain Hunt' Its not about compromise, it's about paying what we owe or even what we don't.

[petemoss]

Just now, vogie said:

We are not playing 'Bargain Hunt' Its not about compromise, it's about paying what we owe or even what we don't.

It was mutually agreed that we owe i.r.o. 39bn.

[Loiner]

25 minutes ago, petemoss said:

It was mutually agreed that we owe i.r.o. 39bn.

Not by parliament it wasn't. The WAG Surrender Treaty which produced that number was kicked out. Three times.

[grumpy 4680]

     Any deal with Europe can be torn up,   ASK Hitler.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

The 'done deal' relating to the divorce agreement is what the UK has committed to - the quantification of the net amount is yet to be finalised and audited, but should be in the £39b ballpark.

 

This agreement depends on the WAG being passed by parliament and for the UK to have legally left the EU. In the event of a no-deal, there is no legal 'divorce' settlement agreement, but it is unlikely any UK government would not honour outstanding committments. Again, that amount would have to be agreed. 

 

In global government terms, £39b is small beer. Since 2016 Brexit has cost to the economy £87b and increasing by £600m a week.

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" - one of the true and fair statements.

 

Edit - And it is obvious that the uk would be extremely stupid to agree any financial settlement without a trade deal in place!  And yet May and her remainer 'negotiators' tried very hard to do so.....

 

The uk has not "committed to" any divorce payment - this was only agreed between the eu and may, who subsequently had to resign as a result of her appalling 'agreement' that even the mostly 'remain' MPs knew was an extremely bad 'agreement' that would result in quite a few losing their seats, if accepted ????.

 

"In global government terms, £39b is small beer."

 

39 bn is not "small beer" in uk or eu terms.  Why on earth would you try to change this to "global government terms"?

 

"Since 2016 Brexit has cost to the economy £87b and increasing by £600m a week."

 

Yet again, pure biased opinion!  Sadly, more than a few haven't realised that this didn't work prior to the referendum - and consequently these OPINIONS are just annoying nowadays.....

Edited June 28, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

We are not playing 'Bargain Hunt' Its not about compromise, it's about paying what we owe or even what we don't.

And it was agreed £39 Billion was the number.

 

But good luck starting back at zero.

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" - one of the true and fair statements.

 

Edit - And it is obvious that the uk would be extremely stupid to agree any financial settlement without a trade deal in place!  And yet May and her remainer 'negotiators' tried very hard to do so.....

 

The uk has not "committed to" any divorce payment - this was only agreed between the eu and may, who subsequently had to resign as a result of her appalling 'agreement' that even the mostly 'remain' MPs knew was an extremely bad 'agreement' that would result in quite a few losing their seats, if accepted ????.

 

"In global government terms, £39b is small beer."

 

39 bn is not "small beer" in uk or eu terms.  Why on earth would you try to change this to "global government terms"?

 

"Since 2016 Brexit has cost to the economy £87b and increasing by £600m a week."

 

Yet again, pure biased opinion!  Sadly, more than a few haven't realised that this didn't work prior to the referendum - and consequently these OPINIONS are just annoying nowadays.....

It is not ‘opinion’ that a settlement of £39Billion was agreed in order to proceed to the other parts of the negotiations.

 

It was never, agree £39Billion, negotiate everything else and then go back to renegotiate the £39Billion.

 

 

Good luck with that trick.

[billd766]

10 hours ago, MRDave said:

The EU sells us so many cars, wine and goods that they call us treasure Island. 1 in 7 cars made in Germany are sold in the UK. In 2018 the UK had a overall trade deficit of -£70 billion with the EU which means the EU sells the UK a lot more than they buy from us.   The fact is that a lot of people are jealous of Great Britain due to it's achievements, conquests and the fact that we punch well above our weight and we are the greatest ally of the United States of America. The fact is that if the UK leaves the EU on a no deal them the EU fats cats will be shi**ing themselves! So get your coat because we are leaving! It is time for the Empire to Strike Back! 

 

Thanks for that cartoon. I have never seen it before.

[Mavideol]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

TM had no right to commit the UK without consulting parliament which she only did this year, 3 times and 3 times it was rejected by parliament. That means there was NO written and signed agreement and what was not signed for cannot be committed to.

 

As a Brexiteer I have no objection to a financial settlement, however IMHO that means a fully audited agreement on who owes what and that firstly has to be audited and accounted for by an independent company, preferably Switzerland, and then agreed line by line for each article.

 

If there is a disagreement, put that one one side and complete the whole bill. Then pay that part of the bill and go back to the uncompleted items and deal with each one in turn.

 

Do NOT accept Mrs May's guesstimate but get a complete and signed off audit  of all the things that affect the UK and the EU before any agreement which must then go back to the UK parliament for ratification. If they agree then fine but if the EU want the guesstimate then play the guesstimate game back to them.

like your good train of thought, let's see where it take them

[Mavideol]

16 hours ago, Loiner said:

The bus? That was it, kicked out of court. Nothing to explain to anybody.

not to the court but to the UK people, he owes them an honest answer, enough of his lies

[Mavideol]

3 minutes ago, Benroon said:

I hope this helps

 

Britain signed up to the EU’s budget framework when it became a member; budgets are not calculated year by year. The EU budget is a “legal act” and is over a seven year span. The last one started in 2014 and it ends in 2020. So, when Britain leaves the EU—tentatively set for March, 2019—it will still be liable to pay its share for the remaining seven quarters—from April 2019 until the end of 2020.

 

 

Brexiters suffer from short term memory loss......

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Boris is playing no part in this, as an egotist he would jump at the chance to be on everything. It is his team working around the clock telling him not to go within a mile of a microphone as his stupidity will torpedo any chance he has. It was the same at the foreign office.

 

It is damage limitation not inspired planning - and some want him to be PM. Its a strange mix of hilarious and tragic.

 

Brexiteers are jumping on his wagon as they believe he will deliver a no deal Brexit yet there is no chance that will happen. It has been spelt out why infinitum. De Pfeffel himself has already made two comments in the last few days which confirms that - and brexiteers get frosty when their intelligence levels are bought up !

You think Brexiteers should not get "frosty" when their intelligence levels are brought up, who are you to judge. You could try posting without insults sometime, that might help. 

[SheungWan]

18 hours ago, billd766 said:

But TM was NOT signing for herself, she was signing for the UK parliament where the settlement should have been brought up and discussed and also on behalf of the UK citizens who were not consulted at all.

Her "settlement" was brought before parliament 3 times and kicked out 3 times before TM was given the option of resigning or being kicked out.

There IS no agreement to the divorce bill between the UK and the EU.

I have written it down for you, I have tried to explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

That is your problem.

And your problem is that No-deal hasn't been agreed by Parliament either. Hard Brexiteers cannot understand much either it appears

[evadgib]

56 minutes ago, vogie said:

You think Brexiteers should not get "frosty" when their intelligence levels are brought up, who are you to judge. You could try posting without insults sometime, that might help. 

Expecting an even playing field appears to have been somewhat ambitious on my part. I only wish I was joking when I tried.

Edited June 28, 2019 by evadgib

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

Brexiters suffer from short term memory loss......

No. Its wilful. What populists do.

[stephenterry]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" - one of the true and fair statements.

 

Edit - And it is obvious that the uk would be extremely stupid to agree any financial settlement without a trade deal in place!  And yet May and her remainer 'negotiators' tried very hard to do so.....

 

The uk has not "committed to" any divorce payment - this was only agreed between the eu and may, who subsequently had to resign as a result of her appalling 'agreement' that even the mostly 'remain' MPs knew was an extremely bad 'agreement' that would result in quite a few losing their seats, if accepted ????.

 

"In global government terms, £39b is small beer."

 

39 bn is not "small beer" in uk or eu terms.  Why on earth would you try to change this to "global government terms"?

 

"Since 2016 Brexit has cost to the economy £87b and increasing by £600m a week."

 

Yet again, pure biased opinion!  Sadly, more than a few haven't realised that this didn't work prior to the referendum - and consequently these OPINIONS are just annoying nowadays.....

I'm not going to argue with you. Just look it up on Google.

Here's the link:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cost+of+brexit+to+date&oq=cost+of+brexit+to+date&aqs=chrome..69i57j35i39j69i59.7245j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[dick dasterdly]

17 hours ago, Benroon said:

I hope this helps

 

Britain signed up to the EU’s budget framework when it became a member; budgets are not calculated year by year. The EU budget is a “legal act” and is over a seven year span. The last one started in 2014 and it ends in 2020. So, when Britain leaves the EU—tentatively set for March, 2019—it will still be liable to pay its share for the remaining seven quarters—from April 2019 until the end of 2020.

 

 

"The last one started in 2014 and it ends in 2020. So, when Britain leaves the EU—tentatively set for March, 2019—it will still be liable to pay its share for the remaining seven quarters—from April 2019 until the end of 2020."

 

I agree that this is reasonable, but seven quarters of the annual net contribution to the eu does not equal 39bn!

[petemoss]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

agree that this is reasonable, but seven quarters of the annual net contribution to the eu does not equal 39bn!

You'd be surprised how it adds up. I'm always shocked by my bar bill.

[Loiner]

I hope this helps
 
Britain signed up to the EU’s budget framework when it became a member; budgets are not calculated year by year. The EU budget is a “legal act” and is over a seven year span. The last one started in 2014 and it ends in 2020. So, when Britain leaves the EU—tentatively set for March, 2019—it will still be liable to pay its share for the remaining seven quarters—from April 2019 until the end of 2020.
 
 

They only work while we are a member. After Brexit all bets are off. That’s why we are Leaving. There was never any intention to leave slowly and keep paying the corrupt club.
No legal obligation to pay anything into the EU pot.

[Loiner]

No. Its wilful. What populists do.

We populists love it. There’s masses of us and it’s very popular.

[Loiner]

And your problem is that No-deal hasn't been agreed by Parliament either. Hard Brexiteers cannot understand much either it appears

No mention of any deal in the Withdraw Act they did pass as a law.
Brexiteers understand that much, why don’t Remainers?

[petemoss]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

No mention of any deal in the Withdraw Act they did pass as a law.
Brexiteers understand that much, why don’t Remainers?

Remainers don't understand it because a no deal Brexit has been ruled out by parliament. Even Boris has admitted that he's only using it as a bargaining chip and has no intention of actually leaving the EU without a deal. If we leave on a deal, no matter what that deal, we must pay the "divorce settlement" 39bn.

 

If you really don't want to pay it, just vote with the majority in the forthcoming confirmatory vote and remain in Europe.

 

Happy days ahead!

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

No mention of any deal in the Withdraw Act they did pass as a law.
Brexiteers understand that much, why don’t Remainers?

Let’s be realistic:

 

1. How likely is that Johnson really would prioritize Brexit over going down as the shortest serving PM in history or the one wrecking the UK?

 

2. How likely is that parliament really wouldn’t be able to stop it?

 

3. How would a no-deal Brexit (if 1 and 2 really happen) influence the UK’s negotiation position with the EU? 

 

Everyone knows this, especially the EU, that’s why no-deal is an empty threat. 

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

No mention of any deal in the Withdraw Act they did pass as a law.
Brexiteers understand that much, why don’t Remainers?

I see other brexiteers on here saying differently. They want a deal.

 

[Johnyo]

The EU sells us so many cars, wine and goods that they call us treasure Island. 1 in 7 cars made in Germany are sold in the UK. In 2018 the UK had a overall trade deficit of -£70 billion with the EU which means the EU sells the UK a lot more than they buy from us.   The fact is that a lot of people are jealous of Great Britain due to it's achievements, conquests and the fact that we punch well above our weight and we are the greatest ally of the United States of America. The fact is that if the UK leaves the EU on a no deal them the EU fats cats will be shi**ing themselves! So get your coat because we are leaving! It is time for the Empire to Strike Back! 
[/url]  

Whilst the imperialists keep on dreaming the EU moves on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48807161



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dick dasterdly]

52 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Let’s be realistic:

 

1. How likely is that Johnson really would prioritize Brexit over going down as the shortest serving PM in history or the one wrecking the UK?

 

2. How likely is that parliament really wouldn’t be able to stop it?

 

3. How would a no-deal Brexit (if 1 and 2 really happen) influence the UK’s negotiation position with the EU? 

 

Everyone knows this, especially the EU, that’s why no-deal is an empty threat. 

"How would a no-deal Brexit (if 1 and 2 really happen) influence the UK’s negotiation position with the EU?"

 

Extremely well IMO!

 

BOTH sides will lose out in the event of no deal, and then be forced to the far less preferable (and more expensive) option of having to negotiate the various issues, individually, after the event..... 

 

Additionally, (in this scenario - no deal) the uk will have already left, so uk politicians will have fewer reasons to back down on every point.  Both sides are likely to be forced into the position of having to genuinely negotiate! 

[dick dasterdly]

44 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I see other brexiteers on here saying differently. They want a deal.

 

You're missing the point.

 

Of course everyone initially hoped for a good/reasonable deal on trading terms with the eu - but this was put to the bottom of the 'list' - by both the eu and uk 'negotiators'  - and consequently negotiations haven't even started on this most important point!

 

Which is why some of us think the only option at this point is to genuinely leave, whilst others hold out hope that there is still a possibility of genuine negotiations.