Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[sunnyboy2018]

19 minutes ago, Leaver said:

We're not in 2004, are we? 

 

What anti social atmosphere are you talking about?  Sport connects people with a common interest. 

 

You want to talk about anti social atmosphere, try everyone on their phone apps all the time, not conversing with anyone face to face. 

 

As far as Thailand being a better place, the whole world was a better place in 2004. 

 

Sure, some pubs in the UK have gone sports free, but most old boys here don't even know what an internet stream is, so it's easier for them to go to a sports bar. 

 

I have the facilities to watch any sport I want at home, but I often arrange with friends to meet at a sports bar to catch up with them and watch a match.  A far cry from what you describe as being anti social. 

Socialising around one issue ie footie is not actually socialising. I understand the need for some people to slavishly follow some sports but what I object to is every bar, becoming a sports bar in effect, every bar  every night having sports on frequently non stop, often matches of no consequence, inescapable due to the quantity of monitors, the constant distracting  headache flicker always dominating the room.  The screens encroach on drinking space if you want to stand talking you block the view of some solo sad sack, sitting, nursing his one drink of the night as he sinks into depression as his team loses or gets angry and animated. Or a screen on with nobody watching! Because of the ubiquity of world sport available illegally or very cheaply in Thailand real bars have been destroyed except for sports fans. I really cant think of anything more stupid than flying to Thailand, joining a football gang of lads and just doing the same as you would in stockport   or wythenshawe or biker. Really. What is the point? And if there were one does every bar have to be a sports bar? Does every bar have to play hands up club music? Grim characterless places lacking individuality or charm most of which you could sit in and pretend you were not in Thailand. If several hundred bars closed in Pattaya it would be a good thing. Quality over quantity is a better idea. And endless TV sports are not my idea of quality. 

[sunnyboy2018]

On 8/13/2019 at 3:11 PM, Leaver said:

I was thinking more along the lines of legitimate bars and restaurants, most likely bars and restaurant that offer good food and sport on TV, or other entertainment, not sex.

 

Honestly,  if you think TV sport is better than sex and you are in Thailand   Pattaya then Why Are You Here? What is the point? You prefer to see men running around in tight shorts, getting a sweat on than being with girls? That is sick and says so much a out the decline of what once made Thailand unique and the quality of some tourist  who are uninterested,  in Thai culture, religion, sport  architecture   dance, music   festivals  girls but thinks western sport is 'entertainment'. 

[Leaver]

23 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Socialising around one issue ie footie is not actually socialising.

Did it occur to you we meet for a meal and a chat before or after a match?

24 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

but what I object to is every bar, becoming a sports bar in effect,

So, find a bar that do not show sports. 

26 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

you block the view of some solo sad sack, sitting, nursing his one drink of the night as he sinks into depression as his team loses

Or has several to drink and is happy as his team is winning, and ultimately wins the match.

27 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

real bars have been destroyed

What's your definition of a real bar?

28 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I really cant think of anything more stupid than flying to Thailand, joining a football gang of lads and just doing the same as you would in stockport 

I live here.  I'm not a tourists. 

29 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Really. What is the point?

It's entertaining.  It's a regular catch up with friends.  It's the atmosphere.  It's the banter.

30 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

does every bar have to be a sports bar?

No, they don't, and many are not.  I suggest you seek them out.

30 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Does every bar have to play hands up club music?

No, they don't, and I and I don't go to those bars.  I don't like them.

32 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

If several hundred bars closed in Pattaya it would be a good thing. Quality of quantity is a better idea.

I disagree.  We would all then lack choice and variety, and quality would suffer because bar owns know we have little to no other options. 

 

[Leaver]

25 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Honestly,  if you think TV sport is better than sex and you are in Thailand   Pattaya then Why Are You Here?

Did it occur to you that you can enjoy both?

26 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

You prefer to see men running around in tight shorts, getting a sweat on than being with girls?

How do you know what sports I like to watch?  Maybe there are no tight shorts involved.  Eg. motor racing. 

 

How do you know I do not watch sport with friends and female company?

28 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

That is sick and says so much a out the decline of what once made Thailand unique

Prostitution made Thailand unique, and that goes all the way back to the Vietnam War. 

29 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

and the quality of some tourist  who are uninterested,  in Thai culture,

I am an expat, not a tourist, but take a look around Pattaya, do you see any Thai culture here????

29 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

but thinks western sport is 'entertainment'. 

Whilst football is a western sport, I actually watched the recent Thailand v Vietnam world cup qualifier with some Thai friends.  On this particular occasion, I actually met some new Thai people, which, once a gain, is a far cry from your anti social view on sport.

 

Perhaps you would find Thai karaoke bars more to your liking.  Just try not to get shot or stabbed.  ????

[Leaver]

On 8/24/2019 at 1:12 PM, Da Nang said:

"Soi Yamato" I think the Yamato is gone too. Today new Sailor Inn from soi 13/2.

 

Not positive!

I had dinner in Yamoto last week.  (Japanese restaurant)

 

It's one of the longest running restaurants in the area. 

 

There were two small groups of Japanese guys, a couple (foreigner with bar girl) another Japanese couple, and myself. This made it busier than many other restaurants around the area, but being a Japanese restaurant, it's in a niche market. 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Leaver

[grifbel]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:01 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

what I object to is every bar, becoming a sports bar in effect, every bar  every night having sports on frequently non stop, often matches of no consequence, inescapable due to the quantity of monitors, the constant distracting  headache flicker always dominating the room

I quite like the omnipresent TVs.  It also provides a natural barrier and filter against people  interrupting my personal space without invitation and with inane attempts at conversation.

[Matzzon]

Must be the worst thing that can happen. Oh dear! what should people do now. My bar has closed, and I can not go to another one of the 2000 existing in a radius of 200 meter.

[Ling Kae]

2 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Must be the worst thing that can happen. Oh dear! what should people do now. My bar has closed, and I can not go to another one of the 2000 existing in a radius of 200 meter.

That's exactly right. Cafe Racer which is a very popular bar in LK Metro was closed for a Month a while back. All their customers relocated to one of the 5 bars within 50 meters of place, we are so spoilt for choice here.

[kinyara]

Went to my local Sports bar/restaurant last night at 6pm to get ready for the early Premier League game and based on how packed it was with people watching a different game on the multiple games I decided just to watch that one back in the condo. Some people may not like Sports bars but I do think a good one has the right formula for success in Pattaya. The beauty of Pattay has and always will be something for everyone.

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

The beauty of Pattay has and always will be something for everyone.

Yes, and in abundance. Which is the reason nobody have to cry over anything if one would close. ???? 

[Leaver]

On 9/15/2019 at 1:07 PM, Matzzon said:

Must be the worst thing that can happen. Oh dear! what should people do now. My bar has closed, and I can not go to another one of the 2000 existing in a radius of 200 meter.

Quite an extreme example, I grant that, but have a look in the Cambodia forum about what happened to Sihanoukville. 

 

We are seeing a similar shift here, minus the casinos. 

[NanLaew]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:01 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

The screens encroach on drinking space if you want to stand talking you block the view of some solo sad sack, sitting, nursing his one drink of the night as he sinks into depression as his team loses or gets angry and animated.

Pictures or it never happened. Everton supporters simply don't watch their team anywhere in public.

[Matzzon]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Quite an extreme example, I grant that, but have a look in the Cambodia forum about what happened to Sihanoukville. 

 

We are seeing a similar shift here, minus the casinos. 

Don´t think so.

[Leaver]

23 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Don´t think so.

Of course you don't.  ????

 

[petermik]

On 9/16/2019 at 6:52 AM, NanLaew said:

 Everton supporters simply don't watch their team anywhere in public.

There are Everton supporters here......really.....wow 

[Leaver]

On 9/15/2019 at 1:13 PM, Ling Kae said:

All their customers relocated to one of the 5 bars within 50 meters of place, we are so spoilt for choice here.

And when "all their customers" stop coming here, possibly "relocating" their holiday to a cheaper destination, or simply remaining in their home country because they can afford a holiday, will the Chinese and Indians go into Cafe Racer for a beer????

 

It amazes my that so many members believe the Pattaya pie can be continually sliced into thinner and thinner pieces, with all establishments able to survive.

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Leaver

[Ling Kae]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

And when "all their customers" stop coming here, possibly "relocating" their holiday to a cheaper destination, or simply remaining in their home country because they can afford a holiday, will the Chinese and Indians go into Cafe Racer for a beer????

 

It amazes my that so many members believe the Pattaya pie can be continually sliced into thinner and thinner pieces, with all establishments able to survive.

 

You have mentioned this pie getting slimmer in a few posts. 

 

I doubt any Indians or Chinese would get into any bar on serious level. But things are changing, now there are several Indian night clubs and they clearly display this. I've never been in one but I would say that's where the Indians would go. Chinese are a non event on the bar scene here.

 

About that pie getting slimmer, maybe somewhere but not everywhere. That Billabong Bar is absolutely jam packed every night, so is the Triangle Bar. They just have a good formula of live music and cheap beer. It's the same bars that are full every night.  This is just loyalty from long term customers.

 

Soi New Plaza was great when it first opened.  It appears as though some bars are struggling now but the winners keep on winning no matter what.

 

After 12 years this bar is still going strong and it's because it is a never ending happy hour, good vibe, free pool and cheap beer. The worst thing any bar could is put prices up during a downturn but that is Thai logic in a lot of cases. Here's a pic, busy every night.

 

 

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It amazes my that so many members believe the Pattaya pie can be continually sliced into thinner and thinner pieces, with all establishments able to survive.

And yet, last night, a midweek evening, it was packed in Walking St, quite a few GGBs difficult to find seats.

 

Cafe Racer is dependent on Australian customers so very specific. 

[DrTuner]

No, Bazi is still doing well in Naklua. T21 got me worried about parking but has had no effect. While in Thailand I've learned to cook just about anything I like myself, so even if it all turns into a Chinatown, my fortress will have edible food. 

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

now there are several Indian night clubs and they clearly display this.

Correct.  This is because the Indians do not buy lady drinks or pay bar fines, and have their own hotel to use.  They go for the freelancers in these nightclubs. 

 

19 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

Chinese are a non event on the bar scene here.

 

 

Correct.  No money to be made out of them in bars and restaurants.

 

19 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

About that pie getting slimmer, maybe somewhere but not everywhere.

 

Ok, so does the "somewhere" include one of your favorite bars or restaurants?  This is the topic of the thread. 

 

19 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

That Billabong Bar is absolutely jam packed every night, so is the Triangle Bar.

 

Not what I saw a few weeks ago.  Had my own table at Triangle (never happened before) and no one was sitting on the outside tables at Billabong.  (never seen that before) 

 

19 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

It's the same bars that are full every night. 

 

Yes, these bars in the past have been busy.  Will they be busy in the future, and with such small margins on the 2 for 1 business model, they really need a bum on every seat.

 

19 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

Soi New Plaza was great when it first opened.  It appears as though some bars are struggling

 

Once again, this is the topic of the thread.  Is one of your favorite bars one of the ones that is struggling?  If so, do you think it will close soon?

 

19 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

After 12 years this bar is still going strong and it's because it is a never ending happy hour, good vibe, free pool and cheap beer.

 

I do not know the owner of this bar.  As we all know, some bars are propped up with the owners foreign money.  The bar is basically a hobby, not a viable business.  These bars only remain open whilst the owner is prepared to keep propping it up. 

 

19 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

The worst thing any bar could is put prices up during a downturn but that is Thai logic in a lot of cases.

 

A big problem is, the foreign owner knows this, but the Thai landlord put the rent up, so, this is passed onto consumers with higher prices.

 

This is one reason Thailand / Pattaya has out priced themselves in the region. 

[Ling Kae]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

Correct.  This is because the Indians do not buy lady drinks or pay bar fines, and have their own hotel to use.  They go for the freelancers in these nightclubs. 

 

 

Correct.  No money to be made out of them in bars and restaurants.

 

 

Ok, so does the "somewhere" include one of your favorite bars or restaurants?  This is the topic of the thread. 

 

 

Not what I saw a few weeks ago.  Had my own table at Triangle (never happened before) and no one was sitting on the outside tables at Billabong.  (never seen that before) 

 

 

Yes, these bars in the past have been busy.  Will they be busy in the future, and with such small margins on the 2 for 1 business model, they really need a bum on every seat.

 

 

Once again, this is the topic of the thread.  Is one of your favorite bars one of the ones that is struggling?  If so, do you think it will close soon?

 

 

I do not know the owner of this bar.  As we all know, some bars are propped up with the owners foreign money.  The bar is basically a hobby, not a viable business.  These bars only remain open whilst the owner is prepared to keep propping it up. 

 

 

A big problem is, the foreign owner knows this, but the Thai landlord put the rent up, so, this is passed onto consumers with higher prices.

 

This is one reason Thailand / Pattaya has out priced themselves in the region. 

Hey Lever, you make some interesting observations.  Yes one of my favourite bars in new plaza is struggling but not because of the amount of customers drying up. It is because they have loaded the bar with obese women and katoys. They customers were all expats that like to play.  So what did they do? Almost all relocated to bars with real girls and cheap beer and in another soi.

 

What you seem to over look is there is a big solid long term expat base here. These customers don't want to leave Thailand no mater what. They've been here too long and want to die here. If I was running a bar this is the customer base I'd be trying to tap in to and keep.

 

The biggest failure of a lot of bars is that they don't listen to the customers.  The other night me and 2 buddies were in a beer bar drinking and having a chat. We were the only ones in there.  The music was so loud we asked them to turn it down a bit which they did. 3 minutes later they turned up even more that the first time. Way to go, checked bin and we all left. Really, how dumb is that?

 

I'll be going to Triangle in the next week or so and I will report back. But I do go to LK Metro at least 5 times a week. Billabong is probably the most busiest bar in the soi. Look at around 11 pm, full almost every night. If it rains or is a Tuesday night numbers might be down, this is normal. They do have probably one of the best live bands where the singer actually sings farang songs in perfect English.  Better than most Thai bands.

 

Just to recap, good bars with good girls, or good bands, or reasonably priced food or reasonably priced beer survive, year after year. Take a look at the Sailor Bar in soi 8, still going strong after decades of being in business. Look what happened to the dog leg behind the Sailor Bar, where the cloud 9 band use to be. Nearly every bar has closed there. They did this to themselves by charging high prices for their beer. Their rent or any other excuses they want to tell us is not my concern. I will go where it suits me and my budget. These days LK Metro suits me best but in general I get around everywhere. 

 

 

 

 

[smedly]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:10 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

if you think TV sport is better than sex and you are in Thailand   Pattaya then Why Are You Here

not to worry, technology will soon provide us with a (TV) media system you can do all sorts with including <deleted> lol

[smedly]

On 9/16/2019 at 12:51 PM, Leaver said:

Quite an extreme example, I grant that, but have a look in the Cambodia forum about what happened to Sihanoukville. 

towns/cities have a natural way of sorting things out, it happens in Pattaya, we have areas that cater for different cultures/nationals, it usually has a way of self levelling based on business 

 

Sihanoukville IMO made a huge error and could regret it going forward 

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

Hey Lever, you make some interesting observations.  Yes one of my favourite bars in new plaza is struggling but not because of the amount of customers drying up. It is because they have loaded the bar with obese women and katoys. They customers were all expats that like to play.  So what did they do? Almost all relocated to bars with real girls and cheap beer and in another soi.

 

What you seem to over look is there is a big solid long term expat base here. These customers don't want to leave Thailand no mater what. They've been here too long and want to die here. If I was running a bar this is the customer base I'd be trying to tap in to and keep.

 

The biggest failure of a lot of bars is that they don't listen to the customers.  The other night me and 2 buddies were in a beer bar drinking and having a chat. We were the only ones in there.  The music was so loud we asked them to turn it down a bit which they did. 3 minutes later they turned up even more that the first time. Way to go, checked bin and we all left. Really, how dumb is that?

 

I'll be going to Triangle in the next week or so and I will report back. But I do go to LK Metro at least 5 times a week. Billabong is probably the most busiest bar in the soi. Look at around 11 pm, full almost every night. If it rains or is a Tuesday night numbers might be down, this is normal. They do have probably one of the best live bands where the singer actually sings farang songs in perfect English.  Better than most Thai bands.

 

Just to recap, good bars with good girls, or good bands, or reasonably priced food or reasonably priced beer survive, year after year. Take a look at the Sailor Bar in soi 8, still going strong after decades of being in business. Look what happened to the dog leg behind the Sailor Bar, where the cloud 9 band use to be. Nearly every bar has closed there. They did this to themselves by charging high prices for their beer. Their rent or any other excuses they want to tell us is not my concern. I will go where it suits me and my budget. These days LK Metro suits me best but in general I get around everywhere. 

 

 

 

 

Ok, so, one of your favorite bars is struggling.  Read the heading of the thread again.  "Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?" 

 

Whilst I am happy to discuss the various reasons for why, or why not, some will survive, whilst others will close, your post tends to indicate that indeed, one of your favorite bars may not be open 6 to 12 months from now.  Do you think it will survive, or close?

 

I understand there is a large expat customer base here.  Do you think the next generation of retired expat will be as large, given the majority of tourists to Thailand now are Chinese?  It's holidaying to Thailand that advertises Thailand as a future retirement destination for many. 

 

You make an interesting point about "customers drying up." You mention the big expats customer base, but what about the bars / restaurants that rely on western tourists, with the expat base being a bonus?  What future do you see for these establishments?  

 

No argument from me, Billabong is the busiest in LK Metro, and I agree, the band is great, however, with a 2 for 1 business model, it has to be packed, 7 nights a week, or it runs to a loss, such are the small margins from the 2 for 1 business model.  

 

I understand your point that a bar / restaurant owner can determine how their business goes, but there seems to quite a few circumstances for this coming high season which may see it be no high season at all.  Things like, strong baht, weak western currencies, Brexit, rising local prices (yes, this includes the girls) stronger competition from the likes of Vietnam, visa issues, particularly for snowbirds etc etc.  These are outside of a bar / restaurant owner's control, and all they can do prop up the business with their savings, or close.  They could try to sell, but in this climate, it's a fire sale, or no sale at all.      

 

 

[Ling Kae]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Whilst I am happy to discuss the various reasons for why, or why not, some will survive, whilst others will close, your post tends to indicate that indeed, one of your favorite bars may not be open 6 to 12 months from now.  Do you think it will survive, or close?

In this particular case I think it will remain open, there are 2 reasons. Loyalty from previous customers who are not here now but will be during the traditional high season. And the farang partner propping the business now. So I think they will be there in the next 12 Months. Not an ideal situation but when you have a stubborn Thai female partner this is how things end up.

 

About the 2 for 1 beers. I asked a current farang bar owner a simple question.  What is the wholesale price of a small bottle of Leo beer, the answer was 31 baht. The 2 for 1 Leo beer costs 130 baht in these bars. That means they are making more than a 100% profit on each bottle of Leo. But there is also a catch, quite a few people never have that second beer after they have been drinking all night. If 1 in 5 people walk out without taking that second beer the bar keeps it and re sells it, so the profits are much higher than that 100% per bottle.

 

Yes I know they have staff to pay but still they are making profits and these bars do well. I actually do not like the 2 for 1 system but I always make sure I get my second beer.

 

Will the western tourists go elsewhere? Maybe, maybe not. For the last 20 years some expats have been saying the "Pattaya is dying" theme. But Pattaya just keeps on going and people still keep coming. Maybe this time is different,  who knows.

[DrTuner]

10 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

 I actually do not like the 2 for 1 system but I always make sure I get my second beer.

I like it, in effect someody else is buying me beer by not drinking his second. Thanks, always appreciated.

[fhickson]

On 9/20/2019 at 9:55 AM, Leaver said:

Correct.  This is because the Indians do not buy lady drinks or pay bar fines, and have their own hotel to use.  They go for the freelancers in these nightclubs.

where are these or names?

sounds cheap.

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I like it, in effect someody else is buying me beer by not drinking his second. Thanks, always appreciated.

Not sure how that works. If I am paying 2 for one, bring them both I say, and not be sneaky hoping I forget and giving the staff more unnecessary work!

[yogi100]

On 8/13/2019 at 4:19 PM, jastheace said:

was abso gutted when crazy daves closed down, never saw that coming....

 

I still remember eating the 65 baht breakfast while watching the 4am cabaret show put on by Dave and his missus when they rolled up drunk out of their heads. Wasn't her name Linda?

[yogi100]

On 8/13/2019 at 4:38 PM, elliss said:

 

      You  joke , about  joking about a persons supposed death . 

      You must be so sad and lonely ... Go Away ..

         PS , fyi   the proprietor ,  is  a well known character on brit TV comedy .

        Obviously , he did not like you,   same me ...

 

 

You are probably talking about a different bar.

 

Dave was a comedy act OK when drunk but he was never on the telly. You may be confusing it with Only Fools And Horses which was constantly on the two TV sets he had in the bar.