Farangs and their future standing in LOS

[dimitriv]

53 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Not farang live here have the Thai wife. We let them also.

 

Never lose.

 

 

Wrong. I think they not want to talk to you about that, if you think that.

i like Thanatorn. Future Forward.

Read thai forum, millions the people talk about opinion.

 

>> Never lose

 

I looked at maps of Thailand in history. The country got smaller a lot, because all countries around Thailand took/stole parts away. If it continues like this for 200-300 years more Thailand will be only Bangkok. Rest will be owned by other countries.

The idea that Thailand was never a colony of the West is completely wrong. Many parts were a colony, and never given back.

 

 

 

>> Wrong. I think they not want to talk to you about that, if you think that.

 

Sorry, but I do not believe you. I remember when I passed the portrait of your King together with my girlfriend. I will never forget her face when I said something. It was pure fear.

 

I stayed in Thailand for a relatively short time compared to others. But from what I saw Thai people are prisoners in their own system/country. Not only based on freedom of expression and politics. It is the system, including human rights, rights at the work place etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by dimitriv

[NCC1701A]

29 minutes ago, Yinn said:

And the farang kill the Native American also right? 

Yinn, did you go to UCLA or Berkley? You sound like my sister.

Edited August 30, 2019 by NCC1701A

[Thainesss]

39 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Hmmmm. Was the Thai people do the gas chamber? Or was that the farang do that? 

 

And the farang kill the Native American also right? 

 

Please think.

 

You’re quite the racist aren’t you. 

 

Actually I’m kind of inclined to believe you’re a semi-clever troll at this point.

[daveAustin]

3 hours ago, Thainesss said:

You’re quite the racist aren’t you. 

 

Actually I’m kind of inclined to believe you’re a semi-clever troll at this point.

The latter. Few Thais would know about 'gas' and those that do would not be mincing around on TV.

 

Moving on, one should probably commend swissie for the try. Bottom line, they still don't give a frig. One could marry a Thai army gen daughter (if you dare) and it wouldn't do. Big changes are coming by the looks, but best bet would be to bide one's time and re-appear in the future... hopefully when Thai (Asia in general) finally grows up and its peoples get a handle on their over-bearing militaries. Atm, they are stuffed.

[OneMoreFarang]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The lack of empathy among some folks here is really astounding, and rears its ugly head on a regular basis in these forum threads...

 

Just because YOU aren't bothered by a particular thing doesn't mean that other people, and perhaps many other people, aren't significantly bothered and burdened by something. And yet because you personally are not bothered, you assume no one else should have any legitimate right or reason to feel something is really amiss here.

 

I personally am not really bothered by the TM30 system, because I don't travel internationally very often and I'm certainly not going to travel domestically anymore and be hassled by the TM30 process. But at least I can understand and empathize with people who are constantly traveling, who have long distances to reach their local Immigration Office, or other TM30-based complications.

 

And despite my personal lack of involvement with TM30, at least I can recognize what a cr**py system it is because of the vague & unclear rules, inconsistent enforcement from place to place, the total uselessness of the process for what it's supposedly intended to accomplish, and the pointless overlap it creates on top of all the other address reporting systems that exist in parallel.

 

While you're enjoying your beer, perhaps you'll find a shred of empathy in the bottom of the glass for others who may be in a different circumstance from your own.

 

Beer and girls are also more expensive then they used to be. And I feel really bad about that.

But can I or anybody of you change it? No!

So what's the point of constantly moaning about it? Will moaning and complaining change it? No!

So what's the point of continuing with that moaning and complaining forever? It just drags everybody down - for nothing!

[PatOngo]

8 hours ago, Yinn said:

My house clean. No blood.

Yinn, take it easy, the problem is not farang causing problems for khon Thai. the ones screwing Thai's over big time are the bureaucracy and hi so's who control the country. You could all be so much better off but for the insatiable greed that is ingrained in society. Farang are the least of your problems! Don't you feel duped when you see the purchase of submarines, a useless aircraft carrier and what are all the APC"s for? Don't you feel duped when you see the budget for education, tourism and for road safety?

[Farang99]

Still on the subject of the TM30, what happens if someone has to spend time in a hospital? You cannot expect the hospital to complete a TM30 for all its farang inpatients, but they are staying at an address the than their registered one.

[jingjai9]

I undestand your sentiment, but Thailand is not a country of refuge and there is no interest in assimilitating foreigners into Thai culture with political rights. You are a guest in this country and the institutions are set up to perpetuate this status. 

 

I think any attempt to "stand up" will have a minimal impact. Change is not likely to be facilitated when farangs operate in the assertive mode. 

 

Personally, I feel like a man without a country in a sense. I have been out of my own country for so long I do not feel as if I have a home there and in Thailand I feel the institutions are set up so I could not make this country a permanent home if I chose to do so. I understand why Thailand wants to protect itself. 

 

When asked I make my feelings known and offer suggestions. The sovereigns here will do as they do; it is their right. 

 

 

[soalbundy]

On 8/30/2019 at 3:14 AM, aqua4 said:

never mind
 

Correct, The 'Tao Te Ching' (the book of the way) from Lao Tzu, 2500 years ago said basically the same thing, "be as water, go with the flow and allow things to be, water cuts the hardest stone and enters where there is no space''. Resist what is and life will answer with resistance. What is the Tao ?  Nobody knows, he writes, "The Tao that can be described is not the eternal Tao, The name that can be spoken is not the eternal name", but he gives examples for rulers how they should behave and rule by not ruling, achieve by not doing.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Yinn, take it easy, the problem is not farang causing problems for khon Thai. the ones screwing Thai's over big time are the bureaucracy and hi so's who control the country. You could all be so much better off but for the insatiable greed that is ingrained in society. Farang are the least of your problems! Don't you feel duped when you see the purchase of submarines, a useless aircraft carrier and what are all the APC"s for? Don't you feel duped when you see the budget for education, tourism and for road safety?

Am I personally better off if they don't buy submarines ? I don't feel threatened in any way here, there are rules and I abide by them. I get on well with my son's teachers, with the monks and with the IO's, I don't protest, I laugh with them.

[RLAretired]

5 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Few Thais would know about 'gas' and those that do would not be mincing around on TV.

 

Excellent !  

 

Thank you, @daveAustin.

[gearbox]

10 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Returning to the subject I am in total opposition to the proposals of Swissie for several reasons :
 - An alliance of Western embassies to put pressure on the Thai executive is stupidly aggressive and counterproductive.
 - I do not want my kind and respectful ambassador to associate with the British and arrogant US. For example, I always use the income letter to renew my visa and I thank him for that.
 - The TM30 is certainly disturbing in principle, but we can easily bypass it. For those who absolutely want to comply with this formality they can do it online in a few minutes. At last, the 800b penalty is ridiculously low compared to what is practiced in our countries. Minor problem so.
 - I do not feel any hostility on the part of the Thai people. On the contrary, I receive smiling welcome all the time and everywhere including the imigration service. This kindness makes me happy.

The Asian countries are getting richer, and the Western poorer. The visa rules are slowly moving to reflect the new reality. If the Thailand's standard and cost of living reaches the West the problem will sort out itself - there won't be that many applying to LT visas to start with. Are there many Thais queuing up to retire in Switzerland? Enjoy the ride while it lasts.  

[4MyEgo]

On 8/30/2019 at 12:52 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Is there any statistic what else the guys who talk and write about TM30 do in their life?

Do they have a life?

 

What would you do if TM30 would not exist anymore? Complain about something else?

Or would you just be happy, have a beer and enjoy life?

If you think you would be happy without TM30 I suggest don't think about it, have a beer and enjoy life!

 

You know what, it doesn't take much to get caught up in all of this, but as soon as these guys get a grip of it, as I did, apply online & get a password, the sooner they can focus on having a beer and enjoying life, and putting the TM30 behind them, i.e. until they go abroad or to another province and then report when they return.

 

I mean, what is so hard about it, sip sip, ahhh

[RLAretired]

41 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

Thailand is not a country of refuge and there is no interest in assimilitating foreigners into Thai culture with political rights. You are a guest in this country and the institutions are set up to perpetuate this status. 

 

Everything I've seen in 15 years here perfectly matches @jingjai9's conclusion above.

 

 

41 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

I think any attempt to "stand up" will have a minimal impact. Change is not likely to be facilitated when farangs operate in the assertive mode. 

 

A perfect description of how local culture operates.

 

 

41 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

Personally, I feel like a man without a country in a sense.

 

Yes, me, too.  In the beginning I was so happy to be here.  But now I realize I'm still here because there's no place else that much better so as to be worth starting all over again.

 

 

41 minutes ago, jingjai9 said:

I understand why Thailand wants to protect itself.

 

As is natural for any group, tribe, nation, culture.  Alas, in the long run, Thailand will not be able to protect itself.  It will lose to outside forces that are far more powerful.  Can see it happening already.

[Cadbury]

On 8/30/2019 at 3:36 AM, luckyluke said:

I got a letter from my embassy (Belgium) that the Consul will contact the Thai authorities in charge of Immigration, and "complain" about the TM30. 

Now I don't expect that Thailand will be highly impressed by this. 

I even suppose some/most will have to check what/where Belgium is. 

 

 

Funny you should mention Belgium. Maybe Thailand might be impressed after all.

After all Brussels is the pig trough for EU officials and Thailand is trying hard to get an FTA out of the EU so they might just make a token and insincere admission of how onerous the TM30 is on European expats.

But really, deep down, I doubt that will happen.

[Yinn]

10 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Yinn, did you go to UCLA or Berkley? You sound like my sister.

No I not go there. Your sister must be clever, like Yinn.

????

[Yinn]

6 hours ago, daveAustin said:

The latter. Few Thais would know about 'gas' and those that do would not be mincing around on TV.

Maybe the thai you know. In the bar.

But everyone I know about this.. 

 

Remember, thailand also have problem with the stupid farang war 2.

So cruel. Black heart.

 

 

[Yinn]

17 minutes ago, RLAretired said:

 

As is natural for any group, tribe, nation, culture.  Alas, in the long run, Thailand will not be able to protect itself.  It will lose to outside forces that are far more powerful.  Can see it happening already.

That will not happen. Sure. Never. 

[RLAretired]

10 hours ago, dimitriv said:

... Thailand in history. The country got smaller a lot, because all countries around Thailand took/stole parts away.

 

Thank you, @dimitriv for that interesting and useful map.  There is, however, much more to the story.

 

The "countries around Thailand" were so much more powerful, in every possible way: England and France at the height of their power.  Siam had little choice in the matter.

 

But there is another variable even more significant.  The time period in the map above reflects a huge shift in thinking about nation-states.  In the old days here, there were no land boundaries, no borders, and no maps of large territories.  Those are all Western concepts.  Instead, in this part of the world, the operative institution was fealty.  Lesser kings in outlying areas were loyal to a more powerful king in the "center".  The power center, not necessarily the geographical center.  Those lesser kings demonstrated their loyalty by tribute.  Over generations, power and influence and loyalty expanded and contracted.  The margins were always in flux, never fixed long enough to draw any maps.

 

When we Westerners arrived we started looking for boundaries and drawing maps.  The local Siamese had never heard of such concepts.  They were quite mystified by the idea of boundaries and maps. 

 

So what the map above really demonstrates is that period of several hundred years when there was a tectonic shift in thinking from that of states arranged by the loyalties of their rulers, to states defined by  lines on a map. 

 

In other words, a change from states based on relationships to states defined by latitude and longitude. 

 

Even today, in this culture, relationships still dominate local thinking in many ways.

.

Edited August 31, 2019 by RLAretired

[Caldera]

The future standing of "farangs" in the "LOS" is in front of a firing squad.

 

????

Edited August 31, 2019 by Caldera
Typo

[Yinn]

10 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

>> Never lose

 

I looked at maps of Thailand in history. The country got smaller a lot, because all countries around Thailand took/stole parts away. 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

[DUNROAMIN]

To the original OP , well written, maybe send your opinion to the major rags in Thailand I am sure somebody will publicize.

[CMNightRider]

Thank you so much for your comment regarding the way Thai Immigration imposes such idiotic rules and regulations on long term expats living in Thailand.  They do this under the guise of searching for western criminals, and end up targeting all long term western expats.  

 

Their latest hair brain idea appears to be the straw that broke the Camels back.  At the first of the year, Thai Immigration in their infinite wisdom imposed the TM30 regulation, along with required deposits in a Thai bank for one year visa extensions.  At the same time, several western embassies turned their backs on their citizens living in Thailand, and stopped issuing income letters.  As a result there has been an exodus of westerners moving to less restrictive countries.

 

If the western embassies were to band together, they could have a positive influence on the people who can't seem to distinguish a western criminal from a productive long term expat residing in their country.  I have attempted to contact the US Embassy on this subject only to get a message there will be no response to my email.   I tried calling and apparently these people have no desire to speak to any callers over the phone.

 

It appears to me US Embassy officials are doing nothing more than warming a seat until their replacement arrives to do the same.  I have found when speaking to embassy clerks about anything other than simple task they are responsible for performing, I get a blank stare.

 

Hopefully, Thai Immigration will eventually come to their senses and start treating western expats like the western countries treat Thai citizens.   

[Bangkok Barry]

Post of the month laying out the problems that us 'aliens' face and pleading for a united front against the nonsense - and predictably you have a succession of members making infantile comments and slagging off a person who has very real concerns that should bother us all.

So sorry, OP, you are hitting your head against a brick wall. There isn't enough intelligent life among TV members to care or unite about anything. It's a reflection of the type of people that Thailand has long attracted, due to lack of law enforcement and the local couldn't care less attitude. It means they don't have to try too hard to keep up standards. Okay if they want to do that if that is what makes them comfortable, as long as they don't expect to be taken seriously - as with some of the comments above.

[Suradit69]

On August 30, 2019 at 2:19 AM, swissie said:

 

Only remedy: A combined effort by ALL western Embassies

It was a combined effort of several of the major western embassies that precipitated some of the changes that are causing many of the problems that long staying farangs are currently facing..

 

And the response of those embassies when the consequences of their action was apparent demonstrated their lack of understanding and indifference to the plight of their nationals resident in Thailand.

 

No country is going to want to appear to be swayed by petitions from foreigners living in their country or to be goaded into action in domestic matters by foreign embassies. Even if Thai officials were sympathetic to some of the issues raised, the appearance of caving in to complaints from foreigners would be upsetting to a population of citizens who are mostly disadvantaged compared to the majority of foreigners living in their midsts.

[Yinn]

3 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Yinn, take it easy, the problem is not farang causing problems for khon Thai.

 

I not say that way. ALL foreigner must do the TM30. Not just farang. Chinese, black, Arab, Burma. 

Some you guys to sensitive.

 

 

3 hours ago, PatOngo said:

 

the ones screwing Thai's over big time are the bureaucracy and hi so's who control the country.

Not really control. Hard to control the thai people. Prayut try, but he can not. Just get himself angry. 55555555

 

 

3 hours ago, PatOngo said:

You could all be so much better off but for the insatiable greed that is ingrained in society. Farang are the least of your problems! Don't you feel duped when you see the purchase of submarines, a useless aircraft carrier and what are all the APC"s for? Don't you feel duped when you see the budget for education, tourism and for road safety?

No. I am very happy. I enjoy my life. Work, study, social. Good balance.

 

Military waste the money, but every country the same. I think it better spend for hospital. But most hospital ok now. Hospital can always be better, but same in other country.

USA spend a lot military, not enough hospital right?

 

Poor people not care to much, they not pay tax. The rich pay tax, but also cheat how much. 

So nobody really care. Tax not to much in Thailand. Other country so much. I think thailand better. 

 

You love thailand. That why you want to live here so much. 

 

 

[Surasak]

On 8/30/2019 at 3:36 AM, luckyluke said:

I got a letter from my embassy (Belgium) that the Consul will contact the Thai authorities in charge of Immigration, and "complain" about the TM30. 

Now I don't expect that Thailand will be highly impressed by this. 

I even suppose some/most will have to check what/where Belgium is. 

 

 

If memory serves, isn't that a small place on the north coast of europe where the eu mafia hang out?

 

 

 

Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway

[Thingamabob]

I have nothing to complain about so your questions/ideas are a waste of my time. Find something else to do.

[Sticky Wicket]

19 hours ago, Yinn said:

This the English of the song thai people sing 8am and 6 pm.

 

Thailand unites the flesh and blood of Thais.
The land of Thailand belongs to the Thais.
Long has been our independence, wish sovereignty allowed to maintain it,
Because Thais have been united forever.
The Thais are peaceful and loving, but are not cowards in war.
Our sovereignty will never be threatened,
We will sacrifice every drop of our blood for our nation.
We are ready to die for freedom, security, and prosperity!

 

 

We happy and friendly and welcome to foreigner, but if you want to change/fight us, you will lose, sure. 

Our country, our rules. If you not want to fill out a Tm 30, then you must leave. Up to you.

You lot couldn't win a one man raffle. 

You'd be crushed but there is nothing here that anybody wants

You were VERY lucky the Brits took mercy on you in WWII and your most loved person was spared!

Learn your own history and realise you are very fortunate that the Brits especially helped you on many occasions

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sticky Wicket

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, Surasak said:

if memory serves, isn't that a small place on the north coast of europe where the eu mafia hang out?

 

it is also a place where many landlords were saturated of the U.K. hooligans, so they put on their door :

" Forbidden to mad dogs and Englishmen"

It helped.