O/A visa and insurance experience today

[Mango Bob]

Just now, Martyp said:

Yes. But that is exactly what we want to hear in this thread. Experiences in different offices. He never said that what he experienced applies everywhere. And CW isn’t just some office in the remote countryside. It’s a big important office serving a great many expats. Maybe it was not the best thing to tell everyone to relax but he has provided a datapoint for us to add to the mix. 

I like to see a few more from there, it would make me feel better about his post.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

59 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I wouldnt put much faith in one post from a new member, who hasn't returned to answer questions posed by myself and other posters.

 

I wasn't endorsing the content of the post... Just sharing it here fyi...  However, I believe Jomtien was one of the Immigration offices that has drawn multiple posts in the past where people were being told O-A-based extensions of stay WOULD require insurance.

 

Earlier, I had asked ThaiVisa to clearly designate a specific thread just for enforcement responses on the O-A insurance issue. But they declined to do so, and instead asserted that THIS thread ought to be used for that purpose.

 

So, when I see pertinent posts elsewhere in the forum on that topic (O-A enforcement), until further notice, I'll plan on sharing them here.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[saiber]

So if I want to stay in Thailand longer I will be forced to buy an Thai insurance which by far wouldn't meet the benefits I enjoy now with my foreign insurer.....not acceptable. Plan B resettling to an country who welcome retirees. In my case - Spain. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, saiber said:

So if I want to stay in Thailand longer I will be forced to buy an Thai insurance which by far wouldn't meet the benefits I enjoy now with my foreign insurer.....not acceptable. Plan B resettling to an country who welcome retirees. In my case - Spain. 

 

At present, ONLY if you currently have an O-A visa and probably if you're on an extension of stay of an O-A visa....

 

If you currently have some OTHER type of active visa or are on extension of stay of some OTHER type of visa, you're not impacted... for the time being.

 

And if you should have an O-A visa or O-A visa-based extension of stay at present, you're not prevented from going down several paths that would allow you to get a different class of visa such as a regular O that doesn't have the same insurance requirement...at least for now.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[LivinLOS]

27 minutes ago, saiber said:

So if I want to stay in Thailand longer I will be forced to buy an Thai insurance which by far wouldn't meet the benefits I enjoy now with my foreign insurer.....not acceptable. Plan B resettling to an country who welcome retirees. In my case - Spain. 

or you know.. just getting a non imm O.. 

[AAArdvark]

4 hours ago, FPizzle said:

I'm totally confused. I renew again in June, 2020 (13th year). I have my monthly deposit in line and now I see this. Do I need health insurance or not?  Just for fun I checked all of the companies listed and none, that I can see, will offer insurance to a person over 70 unless it is a renewal. These are the guidelines I found for the O-A (Retirement) renewal and there doesn't seem to be anything indicating a way to get around it.  It also states that if you have insurance from overseas you will have to show proof of Thai issued insurance at renewal. As usual none of this makes any sense!

Applicant must be aged 50 years old and over (on the day of visa submission application)

This visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year each time.

Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the O-A visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category “O” visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence.

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.

Pacific Cross does.

[CALSinCM]

35 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only.

So this entire dog and pony show really has one primary objective:
To provide profits to Thai insurance companies by forcing expats to purchase over-priced, exclusion-riddled, low-benefit and most-likely-useless policies? 
(Rhetorical question.  The answer is obvious)
 

[hereforgood]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Ultimately, this is a Thai regulation and the Thai government is the final arbiter of how this regulation will be implemented.

So to make a long story short they will do it what ever way they like. 

[brianj1964]

Can I presume the only time you would be asked to prove you have obtained insurance is at an international in coming flight or land crossing, it's not linked to your passport, TM 30, 90 day reporting, internal flights or departing from Thailand ? And the insurance certificate is the only evidence

Edited November 8, 2019 by brianj1964

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, CALSinCM said:

So this entire dog and pony show really has one primary objective:
To provide profits to Thai insurance companies by forcing expats to purchase over-priced, exclusion-riddled, low-benefit and most-likely-useless policies? 
(Rhetorical question.  The answer is obvious)
 

Or, to quote Lord Melbourne: “What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”

[La Migra]

10 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Embassy/consulate will issue you an OA Visa valid for 1 year from date of issue (or to the end date of the foreign insurance policy if that happens to expire more early).

Although we haven't had report of it yet, the implementation order mentions the consulate writing down the date to which the health insurance is valid, on the visa.  That date wouldn't change on subsequent entries.

If the health insurance date they write is Oct 1, 2020 - I think you will only be admitted until that date - no matter when you enter. Unless you show you have purchased one of the listed policies, or convince immigration with a new signed and certified letter of qualifying outside insurance coverage.

 

[brianj1964]

21 minutes ago, La Migra said:

Although we haven't had report of it yet, the implementation order mentions the consulate writing down the date to which the health insurance is valid, on the visa.  That date wouldn't change on subsequent entries.

If the health insurance date they write is Oct 1, 2020 - I think you will only be admitted until that date - no matter when you enter. Unless you show you have purchased one of the listed policies, or convince immigration with a new signed and certified letter of qualifying outside insurance coverage.

 

Yes I am also waiting to hear from someone where the embassy has marked on a visa that the person has insurance, no one so far

[Lovethailandelite]

17 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

Yes I am also waiting to hear from someone where the embassy has marked on a visa that the person has insurance, no one so far

They have no need to look at any notation on the visa. The Insurance and certificate is entered in to the TGIA's database as in steps 1 to 4 below.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[saengd]

Which is yet another shot aimed at those who want to use forged overseas certificates for this purposes, just as they have done in the past so for any number of visa related documents.

[brianj1964]

38 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

They have no need to look at any notation on the visa. The Insurance and certificate is entered in to the TGIA's database as in steps 1 to 4 below.

And the immigration link this to the passport? Is this database at the airport ?

when I arrived he never scanned my passport and said you don't have insurance, he looked at the visa and asked me

Edited November 8, 2019 by brianj1964

[jacko45k]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The police order explicitly states that permissions to stay issued prior to the effective date can remain until the end of the existing permission to stay period without insurance.

This is positive. But how about Non-Imm-O-A's issued prior to Oct 31st? Initially, when this requirement came out, we expected it only applied to O-A issued after. It now appears arrivals after Oct 31st and extensions too are being affected?

 

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

However when your current permission to stay is up and assuming you originally entered on an OA looks like you would need one of the "approved" insurance policies to get an extension.

 

[Lovethailandelite]

18 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

And the immigration link this to the passport? Is this database at the airport ?

when I arrived he never scanned my passport and said you don't have insurance, he looked at the visa and asked me

It's an online system that can be accessed anywhere by the Dept of consular affairs and immigration. It's simply a database that tells them if you have the required insurance or not. I would imagine it is there in order to stop the use of fake documents etc

[brianj1964]

10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

This is positive. But how about Non-Imm-O-A's issued prior to Oct 31st? Initially, when this requirement came out, we expected it only applied to O-A issued after. It now appears arrivals after Oct 31st and extensions too are being affected?

 

 

This information was mentioned on here as far as I remember, people were saying visas granted before 31st wouldn't require insurance but the immigration told my wife regardless of the issue date, ANYONE entering after 31st was subject to insurance rules

[bangkokbanjo]

So, I got my OA visa in NYC before October 31 and will be arriving in November.  Even though the law says I did not need insurance since I got the visa prior to the deadline, I purchased a policy outside of Thailand designed to meet the requirements from Regency.  I had the fill out the form for policies outside of Thailand from the website.   Should I anticipate any issues? 

[GeorgeCross]

Just now, bangkokbanjo said:

So, I got my OA visa in NYC before October 31 and will be arriving in November.  Even though the law says I did not need insurance since I got the visa prior to the deadline, I purchased a policy outside of Thailand designed to meet the requirements from Regency.  I had the fill out the form for policies outside of Thailand from the website.   Should I anticipate any issues? 

 

did regency sign the form as required?

 

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, bangkokbanjo said:

So, I got my OA visa in NYC before October 31 and will be arriving in November.  Even though the law says I did not need insurance since I got the visa prior to the deadline, I purchased a policy outside of Thailand designed to meet the requirements from Regency.  I had the fill out the form for policies outside of Thailand from the website.   Should I anticipate any issues? 

Yes I looked at Regency some time back, policies looked attractive. You may well want to ask whoever marketed this policy to you, but, they do not appear to be on this website.

[GeorgeCross]

7 minutes ago, bangkokbanjo said:

Even though the law says I did not need insurance since I got the visa prior to the deadline

 

which law is that? can you quote it please as others believe you require insurance on all oa's regardless of issue date and that the 'deadline' is in fact just an 'effective from' date

 

 

[KeeTua]

1 hour ago, brianj1964 said:

And the immigration link this to the passport? Is this database at the airport ?

when I arrived he never scanned my passport and said you don't have insurance, he looked at the visa and asked me

My guess is that when the various IT departments involved are done there will be new fields that the IO sees on screen when your passport is scanned. The new fields would pull info from the TGIA database. These new fields would show if you have insurance and the policy effective dates. Your 'Admitted Until' date stamp would reflect that information.

 

So either you have info noted on your visa by an overseas Thai consulate for your initial entry to the Kingdom or you're in the TGIA database or you have a certificate of insurance or you get 30 days to sort it out.

 

I could see this being applied to all Non O-A visas and extensions of permission to stay based on original O-A by 31 October 2020 after everyone has had a chance to do their extension.

 

Just speculation on my part.

 

[Langsuan Man]

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

US citizens:

 

As mentioned I emailed the Embassy and much to my pleasant surprised received a very prompt response as follows:

 

"Sheryl,

 

 

Thank you very much for your email and this on-the-ground perspective.  Over the past six months, we have been engaging the Royal Thai government (RTG) to attempt to ensure that U.S. health insurance policies can be used to satisfy the new immigration requirement for health insurance for foreign retirees.  This advocacy was done by official Diplomatic Note, as well as during the recent RTG press conference announcing the policy.  During that event, the Consul General cited US veterans with TRICARE coverage specially as a population of concern in Thailand.  At least one other Embassy (the UK) cited concern as well.

 

 

The U.S. Embassy plans to continue our advocacy with the RTG regarding the option for U.S. citizens to use existing insurance – regardless of where that insurance is based – to meet the requirements.  We acknowledge there could be a difficult transition period as the Thai’s determine exactly how to implement the new health insurance requirement.  As you note, the language in the official police order is vague in some respects.  Therefore, we may have some room to navigate and improve on implementation. 

 

 

Ultimately, this is a Thai regulation and the Thai government is the final arbiter of how this regulation will be implemented.

 

 

Again, we will continue to engage with the RTP on this issue.

 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

ACS"

 

I again encourage others -- and not just Americans - to contact their Embassies as  it appears that they at least have the opportunity to engage in dialogue on the issue, which is a lot more than we do.

If the US Embassy was serious in protecting US Citizens they could solve the problem instantly.....there is so much use of the term quid pro quo in the news lately,  the solution to the problem is right in front of the Embassies face: 

 

Effective October 31st 2019 any Thai National applying for ANY type of Visa to the United States Of America must have a paid health insurance policy issued in the US prior to the issuance of any visa by the US Embassy Bangkok or US Consulate in Chang Mai  

 

How long do you think it would take for the Thai authorities to re think this new policy if this became the US requirement ?  My letter to the US Embassy will not be asking them to keep, advocating, begging, and monitoring the Thai authorities but to start forcing them to level the playing field or just how about a little Quid Pro Quo  

[lampangguy]

Strictly by chance, I already have an insurance policy through Navakij (one of the "approved" Thai companies). It is through Luma, but the policy is from Navakij. The policy is a 40 page document, all in english, and not easy to understand what the coverage is exactly. Will be interesting when I hand that to the IO office when the time comes. Will they just see the dates and the insurance company name and leave it at that. Or will they delve into the "guts" of the document (again, in english) to verify the coverage.....

[jacko45k]

Just now, lampangguy said:

Strictly by chance, I already have an insurance policy through Navakij (one of the "approved" Thai companies). It is through Luma, but the policy is from Navakij. The policy is a 40 page document, all in english, and not easy to understand what the coverage is exactly

Did they not supply a card to keep in your wallet, usually that summarizes the cover quite well?

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

This is positive. But how about Non-Imm-O-A's issued prior to Oct 31st? Initially, when this requirement came out, we expected it only applied to O-A issued after. It now appears arrivals after Oct 31st and extensions too are being affected?

 

 

That is what they are currently doing at the airport and at least some Imm Offices, yes.

 

What needs to he understood is the diffetence betwren entering on a visa, which generates a new permission of stay, and entering on a RE petmit which does not.

 

If you have already entered you can finish out your already granted permission to stay.  However if your OA visa has not yet passed its validity date and you leave and reenter that generates a new permission to stay and unless practices change you'll be required to have insurance.

 

If your OA has already expired and you leave and reenter on a re entry permit then no insurance tequirement for thst as no new permission to stay. 

[gk10002000]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It's an online system that can be accessed anywhere by the Dept of consular affairs and immigration. It's simply a database that tells them if you have the required insurance or not. I would imagine it is there in order to stop the use of fake documents etc

I am not sure that fake will be the biggest issue.  If one looks at the certificate, it seems to only require the insurance company to sign it.  I suspect few foreign insurance companies will sign it, since they won't be familiar with all the ins and outs.  Other posts said only some sort of Thai official directors can sign the certificate

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It's an online system that can be accessed anywhere by the Dept of consular affairs and immigration. It's simply a database that tells them if you have the required insurance or not. I would imagine it is there in order to stop the use of fake documents etc

I would not count on Imm offices and entry point IOs using this even if they are linked (which I also would not assume). They are going to want the certificate.

 

For that matter given the state of the tgia website and its links (several of which do not link to approved policies) I would not count on that database being functional.

 

Every year when I do my extension IO requires hard copues of multiple things that are right there in their own database. Partly because they aren't willing to take a few minutes to look something up and partly in order to have that stack of supporting documents so beloved by beaurocrats. This has been true at 4 different offices over the past 15 years.

 

Bring the certificate. 

 

Now if your visa was issued after Oct 31 there is suppised to be a notation in it by tbe Embassy/Consulate which supposedly will suffice until the indicared  end date of the policy i.e the first year. No reports yet that I have seen of someone entering with this.

 

 

[brianj1964]

Can I ask what may seem a silly question but here goes, when the insurance company ask the date of visa renewal, are they referring to the O-A visa or the actual stamp, obviously there's 2 different dates, clearly the dates would never be the same unless you got the visa and entered the same day