O/A visa and insurance experience today

[LivinLOS]

6 minutes ago, flexomike said:

waiting to hear from anybody who came in on a re-entry permit from from an extension of stay from an Original OA visa 

of course we wait for reports..But logically that has to be safe, its a pre issued permission of stay. 

[saengd]

11 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The TM28 hasn't been enforced for years, so why try to submit it? CM immigration is happy with the TM30.

I submit a TM28 at CM Immi. frequently and there's never a problem, I have never submitted a TM30.

[Sheryl]

8 minutes ago, flexomike said:

waiting to hear from anybody who came in on a re-entry permit from from an extension of stay from an Original OA visa 

 

I cannot recall ever seeing a report of anybody entering on a re-entry permit, from any visa type, who had to show proof of meeting the original permission to stay requirements, whatever they were.

 

No reason to ever be since no new permission to stay is granted on a RE permit entry.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Chiller said:

Yes he arrived at Suvarnabhumi. 

So did Brianj1964 (I Pm'd him). So 2 cases at Suvarnabhumi reported today.

[Genericnic]

1 hour ago, Skallywag said:

These health insurance topics always puzzle me regarding expats views on retiring abroad and their priorities.

As Sheryl points out above and has sensibly mentioned before, hospitalization is expensive.

The attitude that, "i have insurance in my home country" or "I can self-insure myself" seems irresponsible if you are under 70 and never signed up for international or thai health insurance policy.

People spend millions/hundreds of thousands of baht on homes, cars, motorcycles, vacations, financing girlfriends or wives, etc...  but consider health insurance an unnecessary expense at 6-8K a month.

If you get in an accident or come down suddenly with a severe health problem, "flying" home may not be an option.

No one likes to pay for insurance if they are healthy or relatively young (OP 55 years), yet if new cars or new motorcycles, or new homes take priority over health insurance, you are playing russian roulette IMO. 

 

You are right. It is expensive. But as Sheryl noted in her prior posts, the required insurance is totally inadequate for anything remotely major. In my case, I have coverage from my retirement plan that covers me anywhere in the world with unlimited IPD and unlimited OPD coverage and the insurance doesn't expire - at least until I do. ???? While they do provide a form to be signed by foreign insurance companies, I can't imagine getting that done by any reputable insurance company since it requires the signatures of two directors and something called an "Authorized Signature." And since I am now 70 years old, getting coverage under the Thai policies would, of course, be problematic and expensive especially when you consider the cost of my coverage is US$0.00. So purchasing insurance from a Thai company would be a large waste of money for me. 

 

David

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

do I have any other options to live here permanently without insurance? Visa wise?”

Agent.... or Elite.

[kane666]

4 hours ago, bangkokbanjo said:

Well, I have my OA issued in October and am arriving in two weeks.  I got the insurance anyway, just to be safe .  It's an outside policy , but I downloaded the form from the official Thai website and have the necessary signatures for that.  Hopefully, I won't have any issues 

I still want to know how you managed to get the Directors of a non Thai insurance company to sign the form.

[Maestro]

12 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

The problem is there is no chain of information.

The ''boss' of the local office meets his troop a morning

and says ''from today OA visa need insurance, have a nice day''

and that's all

 

There is a chain of command.

 

Cabinet resolution (2 April 2019)

----> Police Order 548/2562 Criteria

----> Immigration Bureau Order 300/2562 Documents

----> ----> Memorandum 0029.161-W 4603 dated 27.09.2019

----> ----> Memorandum 0029.161/545 dated 01.10.2019 - th.pdf (available only in Thai)

 

The immigration officials are at the receiving end of the memoranda and the senior ones probably also have the Police Order and the Immigration Bureau Order on file. The official at Suvarnabhumi airport (BKK) was working with  the memorandum 0029.161-W 4603. Can you see where he got it wrong?

[Genericnic]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Very interested to hear you were able to get this form signed for a foreign policy, can I ask which company?

I'm with @Sheryl on this one. I'm curious as to that was used for the "Authorized Signature" blank. And what country the company is in.

 

David

[Maestro]

Removed two off-topic posts and replies.

[worgeordie]

My cousin ,she is 84 ,is trying to get Visa from London

to visit at end of the month she has plane tickets already

she is going to stay for 2 months,and extend that for 30 days,

will that be an O-A visa ?? ?,she will already have UK insurance

cover.she has a neighbour trying to get the E Visa,but proving

very difficult,if they hit her with requiring to get Thai insurance,

she will never come again.

regards worgeordie

[jacko45k]

Just now, worgeordie said:

My cousin ,she is 84 ,is trying to get Visa from London

to visit at end of the month she has plane tickets already

she is going to stay for 2 months,and extend that for 30 days,

will that be an O-A visa ?? ?,she will already have UK insurance

cover.she has a neighbour trying to get the E Visa,but proving

very difficult,if they hit her with requiring to get Thai insurance,

she will never come again.

regards worgeordie

Surely a tourist visa would work.

[Ellis]

Same has just happened to me. Non OA issued a few months ago, second time using it. Girl on immigration desk asked for insurance, I said it's a pre October visa so doesn't apply. Supervisor took me away, same conversation. A third supervisor came along and they were all confused so we ended up in the office where a higher level supervisor came in and basically said it applies to all Non OA's irrespective of date. At that stage I had no option but to either buy insurance online (on the spot) or take a 30 day stamp, which I did, in the hope I could later get it corrected in Bangkok. I'm at a loss about what to do now. 

[uncleeagle]

33 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

“I'm 55 Sheryl so I'm expecting a good price, it's difficult looking on my phone I will investigate my options when I get computer access in Pattaya in 3 days.

i was planning permanent retirement here but I didn't anticipate this when I retired in May. I always thought that's what the 800,000 was for previously 

do I have any other options to live here permanently without insurance? Visa wise?”

 

What would you consider as a good price?  I am 56 and these are my choices for someone without any pre-existing conditions:

 

1.  35,000 Baht(400K/40K minimum limits)

2.  42,000 Baht(400K/40K minimum limits)

3.  46,000 Baht(400K/40K minimum limits)

 

Currently I have a 1 Million Baht Inpatient only policy for 13,000 Baht per year with renewals until I turn 70.  But my current insurance policy will not be accepted by Immigration.  Good luck on your search.  

 

So the average for this 55 year old with no pre existing conditions, for the 40/400 insurance is 40k baht ish.

 

Would anybody like to estimate what the cost of the insurance should actually be if it was priced in a free market and offered to locals as opposed to a falang market presumed to be captive?

 

I am trying to guess how many multiples of the fair value the insurance companies are selling it for?

Edited November 6, 2019 by uncleeagle

[worgeordie]

8 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Surely a tourist visa would work.

OK if she got a 60 day Tourist Visa, she would not be asked to buy

Thai insurance ??, she already has UK insurance.

regards Worgeordie

[brianj1964]

1 hour ago, Chiller said:

My friend has just arrived here today from London with a Non Imm O-A Visa issued in London in September 2019 and has been told he requires insurance. He has been stamped in for 30 days and told to get insurance if he wants to make use of his Visa. 

That was EXACTLY what they said to me, I accepted their offer because I had been standing for 2 hours and I wanted out of there, though when I went back to the passport control the girl with a senior colleague looking over her stamped me in for the year 

looks like I was lucky 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Note that 400,000 inpatient cover, while it satisfies Immigration requirements, is completely insufficient for actual protection, a single hospitalization here after a severe accident or illness can reach 1 million baht in a government hospital and well over 3 million in a private hospital.

But premium affordability is IMHO an increasingly important consideration as we get older and are hit by significant age-related increases on top of the annual inflationary ones. That said, there are policies out there which both meet the OA visa requirements and appear to offer relatively reasonable (if not optimum) value-for-money (e.g. Pacific Cross's Standard Extra Plan - and, no, I'm not an advertising consultant for Pacific Cross!).

[zydeco]

3 minutes ago, Ellis said:

Same has just happened to me. Non OA issued a few months ago, second time using it. Girl on immigration desk asked for insurance, I said it's a pre October visa so doesn't apply. Supervisor took me away, same conversation. A third supervisor came along and they were all confused so we ended up in the office where a higher level supervisor came in and basically said it applies to all Non OA's irrespective of date. At that stage I had no option but to either buy insurance online (on the spot) or take a 30 day stamp, which I did, in the hope I could later get it corrected in Bangkok. I'm at a loss about what to do now. 

Online insurance without a medical was available to buy "on the spot?" Which company? Would be interested in knowing for own use, if needed.

[travelerjim]

35 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

“I'm 55 Sheryl so I'm expecting a good price, it's difficult looking on my phone I will investigate my options when I get computer access in Pattaya in 3 days.

i was planning permanent retirement here but I didn't anticipate this when I retired in May. I always thought that's what the 800,000 was for previously 

do I have any other options to live here permanently without insurance? Visa wise?”

 

What would you consider as a good price?  I am 56 and these are my choices for someone without any pre-existing conditions:

 

1.  35,000 Baht(400K/40K minimum limits)

2.  42,000 Baht(400K/40K minimum limits)

3.  46,000 Baht(400K/40K minimum limits)

 

Currently I have a 1 Million Baht Inpatient only policy for 13,000 Baht per year with renewals until I turn 70.  But my current insurance policy will not be accepted by Immigration.  Good luck on your search.  

Try Pacific Cross...with high deductibles of 100,000...200,000 300,000. The 300,000 brings down cost est 50%

[Ellis]

1 minute ago, zydeco said:

Online insurance without a medical was available to buy "on the spot?" Which company? Would be interested in knowing for own use, if needed.

I didn't see what company, but she showed me two examples on her phone of people who'd bought it at the airport. 

[brianj1964]

1 hour ago, Roy Baht said:

Confused. In the OP, he was told he was only being given 30 days but when he was finally stamped in he got the full year. Doesn't that mean he was admitted on the OA visa for a year? In which case, he might get away without buying insurance, at least for a year? Or he'll get nailed when he does 90 day reporting?

Yes I have entered using the OA, the second person whom I showed it to never questioned it, and It appears someone else had a friend who was told the same thing, 30 days to sort the insurance 

[gearbox]

44 minutes ago, flexomike said:

waiting to hear from anybody who came in on a re-entry permit from from an extension of stay from an Original OA visa 

Coming soon...I'm currently in Vietnam with 1 year multiple reentry permit based on O-A. Coming back 18th Nov via Don Mueang.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, Ellis said:

Same has just happened to me. Non OA issued a few months ago, second time using it. Girl on immigration desk asked for insurance, I said it's a pre October visa so doesn't apply. Supervisor took me away, same conversation. A third supervisor came along and they were all confused so we ended up in the office where a higher level supervisor came in and basically said it applies to all Non OA's irrespective of date. At that stage I had no option but to either buy insurance online (on the spot) or take a 30 day stamp, which I did, in the hope I could later get it corrected in Bangkok. I'm at a loss about what to do now. 

Thanks for the report, and feel for you.

But first can you please clarify.

Are you saying that you entered Thailand a couple of months ago on your Non Imm OA Visa and were stamped in for 1 year permission to stay.  And that during that permission of stay you exited and now re-entered Thailand but were stopped because you had no thai approved health-insurance?  But that they let you in on Visa exempt (30 days).

At which Airport or land border crossing was this?

If possible please provide full details (expiry date of the OA Visa and stamped in permission to stay date after 1st entry).

Note: Will post possible options for you later explaining how you can handle this unfortunate happening so that you can stay in Thailand as you intended.

[TheAppletons]

14 minutes ago, Ellis said:

Same has just happened to me. Non OA issued a few months ago, second time using it. Girl on immigration desk asked for insurance, I said it's a pre October visa so doesn't apply. Supervisor took me away, same conversation. A third supervisor came along and they were all confused so we ended up in the office where a higher level supervisor came in and basically said it applies to all Non OA's irrespective of date. At that stage I had no option but to either buy insurance online (on the spot) or take a 30 day stamp, which I did, in the hope I could later get it corrected in Bangkok. I'm at a loss about what to do now. 

  Anyone else beginning to see a trend?  

[GeorgeCross]

11 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

 

So the average for this 55 year old with no pre existing conditions, for the 40/400 insurance is 40k baht ish.

 

Would anybody like to estimate what the cost of the insurance should actually be if it was priced in a free market and offered to locals as opposed to a falang market presumed to be captive?

 

I am trying to guess how many multiples of the fair value the insurance companies are selling it for?

 

the premiums are high because the risk pool is 50+ year olds only (high risk)

 

if they had 20 year olds paying in as well the risk pool would be significantly lower. they don't.

 

its like buying car insurance specifically for under 25s and trying to compare to general car insurance. apple and oranges

 

 

[Max69xl]

13 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

 

So the average for this 55 year old with no pre existing conditions, for the 40/400 insurance is 40k baht ish.

 

Would anybody like to estimate what the cost of the insurance should actually be if it was priced in a free market and offered to locals as opposed to a falang market presumed to be captive?

 

I am trying to guess how many multiples of the fair value the insurance companies are selling it for?

Like other posters have said,the coverage 400k/40k is useless if you get real sick or injured. If you have let's say an O Visa with 1 year extensions, then the costs for health insurances drops a lot. Better coverage etc etc. 

[Peter Denis]

13 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

OK if she got a 60 day Tourist Visa, she would not be asked to buy

Thai insurance ??, she already has UK insurance.

regards Worgeordie

Worgeordie,

The mandatory thai-approved health-insurance requirement ONLY applies to holders of Non Imm OA Visas (long term stay - retirement).  Your sister will come as a Tourist and is not required to have health-insurance.  But obviously it would be recommended that she has travel-insurance in case an accident happened when she is over here in Thailand.

[brianj1964]

25 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

My cousin ,she is 84 ,is trying to get Visa from London

to visit at end of the month she has plane tickets already

she is going to stay for 2 months,and extend that for 30 days,

will that be an O-A visa ?? ?,she will already have UK insurance

cover.she has a neighbour trying to get the E Visa,but proving

very difficult,if they hit her with requiring to get Thai insurance,

she will never come again.

regards worgeordie

If she goes on line it has a list of available visas, I previously had a non-immigrant O valid for 90 days but I think I got it being married to a Thai though it suits her situation 

[Ellis]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Are you saying that you entered Thailand a couple of months ago on your Non Imm OA Visa and were stamped in for 1 year permission to stay.  And that during that permission of stay you exited and now re-entered Thailand but were stopped because you had no thai approved health-insurance?  But that they let you in on Visa exempt (30 days).

At which Airport or land border crossing was this?

If possible please provide full details (expiry date of the OA Visa and stamped in permission to stay date after 1st entry).

Yes, it was very similar to the report in the original post, except there were more supervisors involved. It was at Suvarnabhumi. My previous entry was in May shortly after I got the visa, and I had earlier been stamped in until May 2020. Now I'm stamped in until early next month.

[Maestro]

I hope to get an English translation of the Memorandum 0029.161/545 dated 01.10.2019 soon and perhaps this will give us an indication why some members are being asked to have the health insurance certificate for the retirement extension based on an original entry with an O-A visa.