Bailing Out / Jumpin Ship

[saengd]

1 minute ago, yogi100 said:

I know retirees who came out to live the Life of Riley when it was 74 to the GBP but never 80. In fact when I first came we only got 32 Baht to the GBP considerably less that the 38 - 39 we're getting now.

 

Never the less they still decided to retire in the LOS because in those days if they wanted to retire in a tropical climate along with its other attractions Thailand was the only place that fitted that bill and was affordable.

 

As far as I know not a single one of 'em was a clairvoyant or a psychic and it's those people we are discussing because they are the ones who are now 'Bailing Out/Jumping Ship'.

And I'm one of those people also except I'm not bailing out. I also started coming here when the rate was 32 and when the financial crisis hit in 1997 I knew the unusually high rate was not permanent, the Pound had been sinking for several years already. You said it yourself, it was one of the few places that was affordable, anyone who thought it would remain that way and had all their eggs in one basket, simply didn't do their home work. For years on TVF iwas trying to tell people that we'd see 40 baht to the Pound and everyone thought I was crazy, the writing was on the ball years before but most chose to ignore it.

[baansgr]

19 hours ago, BestB said:

And that’s how it was in Thailand before. So you make a move and in a few years they also change rules, what then? 
 

personally I can not live out of a bag , feeling like a tourist . I need home to feel like at home. 
 

once other places experience expat influx , no doubt their regulators will also change . 
 

yet to meet a happy expat from Phillipines . All miserable and living like backpackers 

SRRV is a great option for anyone over 37 years of age...not forgetting if you marry a flipper its a 10 year visa with no reporting or re entry stamps. Lots are going to Vietnam but that's tedious with max three months...

[yogi100]

8 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

250k USD is hardly wealthy. In fact the average home, average mind you. Runs about 200k.

 

Hopefully at the end of ones life you have 1500usd pm until 92yo. About 18k per year. Maybe 15k plus interest, dividend.

 

So, about 550k USD. If you don't have that I would highly advise returning home and hunkering down.

Why would you advise that much. I'd like to have 550 million baht!

 

Bear in mind Americans tend to be appreciably more wealthy than the rest of us. A friend of mine in Pattaya survives on fish head gruel and rice. You've never had to eat that.

 

And what is 550K USD in Thai Baht so those of us who are not Americans know what you are talking about. All nationalities read this forum not just people from the US.

 

If you do the conversion to start with it saves the rest of us having to do it, that's if we want to know what you are talking about. We all know what a million baht is in our currencies.

[Letseng]

And where is this paradise without immigration rules your friends heading to?

I must have always gone to the wrong country.

[Thomas J]

What is frustrating is the constantly changing rules and the variance in interpretation each time you go to immigration.  Certain things like coding of foreign transfers are out of your control and if the bank screws it up well then it is your problem.  The constant running back and forth to immigration is a nuisance.  it is hardly fun to stand in line at the immigration bureau waiting for your number to be called.  Then after waiting for in some cases upwards of 1 hour being told you are missing something and have to come back.  Even when your visa is approved you have to leave your passport and then return yet again.  It seems as though Thailand wishes to encourage those who wish to visit and discourage those who wish to retire here. 

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

It seems as though Thailand wishes to encourage those who wish to visit and discourage those who wish to retire here. 

Nail hit on head.

[stropper]

21 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

I think they didn't have the means to get a proper visa for many years and now that there are stricter controls, they can't afford to live here anymore.

absolutely spot on ! never truer words written 

[AAArdvark]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

VISA/Extension is just too much effort in Thailand.

I can stay in Cambodia for $300/year or Philippines on continuous extensions for 3 years, while having to show no finances/savings/insurance, or queue in any immigration offices at all, or anyone care where I am (or even if I'm illegally working).

Or in the Philippines for $1000 if a military veteran or over 50 or no vet $10,000 in the bank (refundable) plus sum up front costs of about $1,600. and you are done for life.  There are annual fees of either $10 or $360, both of which is approximately what the costs are for the required frequent extensions for the 3 year route plus that requires an exit reenter at 3 years.  There are other benefits to the SRRV.

[stropper]

5 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

What is frustrating is the constantly changing rules and the variance in interpretation each time you go to immigration.  Certain things like coding of foreign transfers are out of your control and if the bank screws it up well then it is your problem.  The constant running back and forth to immigration is a nuisance.  it is hardly fun to stand in line at the immigration bureau waiting for your number to be called.  Then after waiting for in some cases upwards of 1 hour being told you are missing something and have to come back.  Even when your visa is approved you have to leave your passport and then return yet again.  It seems as though Thailand wishes to encourage those who wish to visit and discourage those who wish to retire here. 

at my yearly renewal of retirement at udon thani immIgration THIS WEEK, walked in took card,  ushered to desk, supplied all required papers, 2k bart paid and out the door in 20 minutes, with passport and new visa, exactly the same as the past 4 years, the only reason people struggle IS  they are not prepared AND DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY,  it is not rocket science

[CMNightRider]

7 minutes ago, stropper said:

absolutely spot on ! never truer words written 

We travel in much different circles.  Almost without exception, the people I know who have left Thailand over their increasing idiotic rules have enough money to live any where they want.

[TKDfella]

I suppose the main reason expats complain is that no incentives are offered. For example, and these are just from my own imagination, a Stay of say 3 yearly extensions without points against you, immigration the grant a stay for two years. After that then, well you get the idea. Allow general hospitals to service westerners with an affordable insurance. TM 30 etc. well no need to think about that 'cause I know most would like to seem them gone. And there are numerous other ideas they could come up with, credit cards, land ownership (for those with say a million or two in the bank) and so on.

But in the incentives are becoming lesser instead. Every year you go for an extension and you wonder if some new rule is going to exclude you. Building plans is difficult if in the back of your mind that next year the IO might say 'stay is refused'. I'm sure if they were to come with some expat friendly rules more of would be willing to spend money instead of saving it.

[stropper]

4 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

We travel in much different circles.  Almost without exception, the people I know who have left Thailand over their increasing idiotic rules have enough money to live any where they want.

more <deleted>, i would say all cheap charlies !

[baansgr]

7 minutes ago, stropper said:

at my yearly renewal of retirement at udon thani immIgration THIS WEEK, walked in took card,  ushered to desk, supplied all required papers, 2k bart paid and out the door in 20 minutes, with passport and new visa, exactly the same as the past 4 years, the only reason people struggle IS  they are not prepared AND DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY,  it is not rocket science

Its not the same as four years ago...your money is tied up an extra three months, and then half for the rest of the year...plus you have to return three months after to show proof of funds. It may be easy for some but other people live a days journey to and from their immigration office...combine this with 90 day reports, re entry permits, TM 30s and LOR...you may as well rake a tent and camp in their car park as visiting so frequently

[wwest5829]

21 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

I think they didn't have the means to get a proper visa for many years and now that there are stricter controls, they can't afford to live here anymore.

You are free to think what you wish but without creditable documentation we just do not know. In my case, after 8 years, I cannot meet the new demand for medical insurance. Even if I could get a policy, anything to do with my pre-existing heart condition would not be be insured so that cost would not be paid to a Thai medical bill.

[stropper]

5 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Its not the same as four years ago...your money is tied up an extra three months, and then half for the rest of the year...plus you have to return three months after to show proof of funds. It may be easy for some but other people live a days journey to and from their immigration office...combine this with 90 day reports, re entry permits, TM 30s and LOR...you may as well rake a tent and camp in their car park as visiting so frequently

it is only 40k aussie dollars, if you can not afford to keep that in the bank while living in another country , you should not be here, we are not thais it is there country and we should pay to live here, it is cheap, and a great place to live, go home  ! i go to immigration 4 times a year, that i feel is good, i am not a thai !

Edited December 22, 2019 by stropper

[HHTel]

27 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Even when your visa is approved you have to leave your passport and then return yet again. 

I believe that's only at some BS offices.  There really is no reason to do that but of course some do.

[yogi100]

37 minutes ago, HHTel said:

It is a common perception that everyone's leaving but I don't think that's the reality.

 

However, there are 72,000 retirees in Thailand according to 2019 figures.  If every one of them moved on, it would hardly be noticed.  It would give immigration officers an easier time but apart from that, Thailand does not need us and would get on just as well without us.  We are not as important as some think!

But a fair few of 'em have set up families who are partly or entirely dependent upon them. These expats are very important to them and IF the govt are bothered about these families they might be pressured into being a bit more hospitable towards these breadwinners.

[wwest5829]

21 hours ago, ezzra said:

Indeed, things got somewhat tougher in the past few years and some of the requirements got tedious and absurd, but whoever can fill those requirements, which by the way are fair and straight forward if you're a retiree and have some money put aside, those people can stay in the kingdom like for as long as they like, where's shoestings stayers will find it ever more difficult...

I agree about shoe string stayers but I do not think my monthly 65,000 baht a month is shoe string. No, it is the medical insurance requirement that causes a need to void my Non IMM O-A Visa that has caused myself and others to consider leaving.

[448glb]

18 hours ago, madmen said:

Lets cut the BS gents. The 500 exodus threads all started after the embassies shat on their own citizens and BOOM the thousands that built their future based on a house cards based upon a scribble signature on a BS  affidavit saw it collapse and are now very very upset and angry .

 

No sympathy from me or any of my expat friends. Good riddance and thanks for making Immigration suspicious of even the good guys

 

You reap what you sow 

Thank you for writing exactly what I was thinking. I have never had a problem living here, on and off for 20 years, you just need to roll with the punches. For some strange reason in my 49 years of life I’ve always figured a way out and away around everything life has thrown at me.  Oh that’s not strange that’s intelligence/StreetSmarts ....

I read TV every day for the pure entertainment and shock of the threads people post. People asking advice from other people who don’t know 100% what the hell they’re talking about. Instead of going straight to the source, either google, the bank, or immigration, it blows my freaking mind. For those of you guys who can’t figure anything out, please keep up the good job. I’m happy everyone’s leaving, more for me ????

[alanrchase]

21 hours ago, ezzra said:

Indeed, things got somewhat tougher in the past few years and some of the requirements got tedious and absurd, but whoever can fill those requirements, which by the way are fair and straight forward if you're a retiree and have some money put aside, those people can stay in the kingdom like for as long as they like, where's shoestings stayers will find it ever more difficult...

I more or less agree with you. The main problem is you are never 100% sure you meet the requirements untill you turn up at your particular immigration office on the day. They can choose to request anything they like and there is little you can do about it.

[ThomasThBKK]

21 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Its not the same as four years ago...your money is tied up an extra three months, and then half for the rest of the year...plus you have to return three months after to show proof of funds. It may be easy for some but other people live a days journey to and from their immigration office...combine this with 90 day reports, re entry permits, TM 30s and LOR...you may as well rake a tent and camp in their car park as visiting so frequently

Sure, but you can thank the fake it till you make it crowd for that. The same ones who faked their income affidavit. The same ones with dodgy agents.

Everyone had lent money they don't really had just to get a visa, they got tired of it and now you actually have to keep it there. Or well you don't if your embassy still offers the income letter, like most do. But those embassy also checked the income stuff and not just signed a random statement.

 

 

 

Now everyone honest is suffering, like always, but it's not a one sided thing, the expat community exploited it till they had to do it.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[baansgr]

21 minutes ago, stropper said:

it is only 40k aussie dollars, if you can not afford to keep that in the bank while living in another country , you should not be here, we are not thais it is there country and we should pay to live here, it is cheap, and a great place to live, go home  ! i go to immigration 4 times a year, that i feel is good, i am not a thai !

Its not about having only 40k AUS, why should it be tied up in an almost zero interest account when dividends of 7% or more can be achieved elsewhere, but people with money anyway are voting with their feet and dollars and moving elsewhere

 Your happy, others with same or more money than you are not....and let's be clear....cheap Charlie's normally use an agent so nothing has changed for them, its people with money that are leaving

[Presnock]

I have been here on retirement visa extension since 2005.  Prior to the cessation of proof of income from the US consulate, I paid $50.00 USD for said letter.  Yes, during the rest of the time until this year, that is exactly what I did.  Now using the monthly income method, I don't have to pay that $50.00USD.  I used the yearly income letter from the US govt stating what my retirement income is each year, plus they have a pie chart showing the monthly amounts forwarded to my bank in the US.  Also added to a little frustration was the enactment of a new US Justice Dept law concerning intl bank information sharing on US overseas ex-pats attempting to thwart money laundering or escaping US income taxes each year. Many nations' (total of 54 I think including US and Thailand) banks are cancelling accts of expats without a permanent US address.  I however thru this forum learned of a bank which would give me an account which I then transfer funds to Bangkok Bank so that is over and done with.  This is now $10.00 USD cheaper than my old bank (BOA).  When I did my extension this year (MAY 2019) it therefore cost my a lot less than before the changes last Dec.  In addition, previously I had to get to IMM at zero dark thirty and wait several hours before getting the extension signed etc.  This year a total of 30 mins (chiangmai) from queue ticket until finished and passport signed until next May/June timeframe.  I understand some people though have had many problems with the changes.  Some due to strength of baht, some with some with OA needing ins, some just don't have the funds.  I think that by following the rules since I began that makes it seem fairly simple and better than before to me.  To those though that can't abide by the rules I wish you luck in the future whatever you do or whereever you go!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all on Thaivisaforum!

 

[448glb]

4 minutes ago, Presnock said:

I have been here on retirement visa extension since 2005.  Prior to the cessation of proof of income from the US consulate, I paid $50.00 USD for said letter.  Yes, during the rest of the time until this year, that is exactly what I did.  Now using the monthly income method, I don't have to pay that $50.00USD.  I used the yearly income letter from the US govt stating what my retirement income is each year, plus they have a pie chart showing the monthly amounts forwarded to my bank in the US.  Also added to a little frustration was the enactment of a new US Justice Dept law concerning intl bank information sharing on US overseas ex-pats attempting to thwart money laundering or escaping US income taxes each year. Many nations' (total of 54 I think including US and Thailand) banks are cancelling accts of expats without a permanent US address.  I however thru this forum learned of a bank which would give me an account which I then transfer funds to Bangkok Bank so that is over and done with.  This is now $10.00 USD cheaper than my old bank (BOA).  When I did my extension this year (MAY 2019) it therefore cost my a lot less than before the changes last Dec.  In addition, previously I had to get to IMM at zero dark thirty and wait several hours before getting the extension signed etc.  This year a total of 30 mins (chiangmai) from queue ticket until finished and passport signed until next May/June timeframe.  I understand some people though have had many problems with the changes.  Some due to strength of baht, some with some with OA needing ins, some just don't have the funds.  I think that by following the rules since I began that makes it seem fairly simple and better than before to me.  To those though that can't abide by the rules I wish you luck in the future whatever you do or whereever you go!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all on Thaivisaforum!

 

You are so nice

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts, insulting posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Number 6]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

Why would you advise that much. I'd like to have 550 million baht!

 

Bear in mind Americans tend to be appreciably more wealthy than the rest of us. A friend of mine in Pattaya survives on fish head gruel and rice. You've never had to eat that.

 

And what is 550K USD in Thai Baht so those of us who are not Americans know what you are talking about. All nationalities read this forum not just people from the US.

 

If you do the conversion to start with it saves the rest of us having to do it, that's if we want to know what you are talking about. We all know what a million baht is in our currencies.

This was specifically directed at someone who posted stating that 250k USD was pretty much untouchable *wealth*.

 

As a roundabout figure which obviously you don't have given the comments it's imo the bottom end of what life costs. Granted I get by on about 35k including domestic holidays. My wife pays her part outside main expenses.

 

As for being able to calculate it all. Not much of an international expatriate if you can't calculate half dozen currencies roughly in your head. I mean I'm just a stoopid murkan and can do nearly ten.

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, stropper said:

at my yearly renewal of retirement at udon thani immIgration THIS WEEK, walked in took card,  ushered to desk, supplied all required papers, 2k bart paid and out the door in 20 minutes, with passport and new visa, exactly the same as the past 4 years, the only reason people struggle IS  they are not prepared AND DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY,  it is not rocket science

Curious... If your visa was a OA visa and you didn’t have health insurance would you has waltzed in and out in 20 minutes?...

[Chivas]

Theres a myriad of reasons for the exodus of visitors and expats not least of all tougher visa regulations and of course the strength of the Baht against the Benchmark USD but also at the same time Western currencies weakness against that same USD on the other side of the currency pairings.

 

The love in with Thailand is close to over. Colleague of mine a 30 year plus veteran of Pattaya says simply hes never seen it so quiet at Christmas last night. The Thais have cooked the Golden Goose but you need to turn the clock back further to see the start of the decline as the internet took off and the Genie was firmly out of the bottle.....

Edited December 22, 2019 by Chivas

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, stropper said:

at my yearly renewal of retirement at udon thani immIgration THIS WEEK, walked in took card,  ushered to desk, supplied all required papers, 2k bart paid and out the door in 20 minutes, with passport and new visa, exactly the same as the past 4 years, the only reason people struggle IS  they are not prepared AND DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY,  it is not rocket science

Possibly the only reason to live in Nakhon Nowhere.

Incidentally, you did not get a new visa. 

[Number 6]

I have no problem meeting the 800k despite only needing 400k. I'd never even contemplated the silly, overly complicated income method. I routinely scoffed at all the BS artists fronting up to embassies knowing your day would come. Really, if you can't keep 800k in a bank you don't belong outside your country. You really don't. For your own good if you're too dim to see it.

 

For myself the TM30 is a last straw. I've stopped taking all but one domestic trip in protest (with wife).

 

Insurance for O visa will be the breaking point and I'll return to use Medicare at 65 if I can't self insure. Spending good money on a worthless policy is just something I'm not willing to do.

 

The air pollution is an absolute crime. For all the blah blah blah Thailand talks about green, the environment. Finally it's 2020 Thailand REALLY needs to halt the seasonal burning.

 

The government is not headed in a direction that I feel both free and comfortable.

 

Single men will continue to come for the ease of faux friendly companionship, ease and cost of hooking up. Thai women have a knack for selling it without the John feeling he's buying it and it's apparently addictive.

 

Me, I'd be in a dozen other countries if single.