ATTN: Benzine users

[chingmai331]

Went to buy my fill-up of benzine (petrol, no alcohol) for my old clunker, at my usual PTT station along the moat in CM.

NO MORE BENZINE. Signs boarded up, pumps not working but whether temporary or permanent, not positive but i believe permanent.

Does anyone else use benzine and have you experienced any recent shortage?

 

If widespread shortage probably the govt is involved with the control of this petrol and for some reason have banned its sale.

If all true, what are my options to avoid alcohol in my fuel?  I use benzine only to avoid the alcohol and resulting fuel line troubles when i return from a 6 week absence. Alcohol sitting around in the tank develops a film/scum which clogs the lines and injectors and might be worse on older cars.

Any advice, and your experience, welcome.

 

[canthai55]

My HD sat for almost 7 years - tank full of 95 Gasahol.

My cars and bikes here sit for 6 months - tank full of 95 Gasahol

Never an issue. Put a bottle of FI cleaner in, drive until empty, refill with fresh, done

No scum, no bad fuel lines, no rotten hoses.

Old wives tale from when dinosaurs roamed the earth, or at least since the mid 70's

 

[rambling]

How can alcohol clog anything? Gaohol is a bit more corrosive/detergent like.

 

Anyway my personal experience is that I used it for years on a European car from the 90's from an era when gasohol did not even exist yet and had no issues.

 

[Don Mega]

11 minutes ago, rambling said:

How can alcohol clog anything? Gaohol is a bit more corrosive/detergent like.

 

Anyway my personal experience is that I used it for years on a European car from the 90's from an era when gasohol did not even exist yet and had no issues.

 

The ethanol content can be detrimental to fuel system components, some vehicle/bikes simply run like a pig on it.

[steve187]

i use benzine in my vw kombi, no shortage in rayong area, 

 

need to upgrade fuel lines if ethanol fuel is used

Edited February 7, 2020 by steve187

[KhaoYai]

Embarrased to say that after 18 years of travelling to Thailand I didn't know I may be buying gasohol when  I visit service stations. I normally use PTT stations where my bike gets 95 and the car I use gets 91.  Am I buying gasohol and not petrol then?

 

Edit: even more embarrased to learn that (if I'm understanding the bad translations on the PT site correctly) the 95 and 91 designations relate to the mixing ratio (9 to 5 & 9 to 1) and not the octane rating.  I had thought I was using a higher octane fuel (95) in my bike.

Edited February 7, 2020 by KhaoYai

[jackdd]

Even after several months of absence i've had no problems with gasohol.

Maybe if you have an old timer, but every newer vehicle will be fine with gasohol and bezine is a waste of money.

 

 

10 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Embarrased to say that after 18 years of travelling to Thailand I didn't know I may be buying gasohol when  I visit service stations. I normally use PTT stations where my bike gets 95 and the car I use gets 91.  Am I buying gasohol and not petrol then?

95/91 consist of 10% ethanol.

Edited February 7, 2020 by jackdd

[steve187]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Embarrased to say that after 18 years of travelling to Thailand I didn't know I may be buying gasohol when  I visit service stations. I normally use PTT stations where my bike gets 95 and the car I use gets 91.  Am I buying gasohol and not petrol then?

 

Edit: even more embarrased to learn that (if I'm understanding the bad translations on the PT site correctly) the 95 and 91 designations relate to the mixing ratio (9 to 5 & 9 to 1) and not the octane rating.  I had thought I was using a higher octane fuel (95) in my bike.

both are 10% ethanol and 95 is higher octane than 91, the government are talking about doing away with 91.

[KhunBENQ]

There is now news about abolishing benzene in general.

It's still possible that certain stations get rid to make room for even more Diesel variants.

Gasohol 91 (octane) will be phased-out (already started).

 

[KhaoYai]

44 minutes ago, steve187 said:

both are 10% ethanol and 95 is higher octane than 91, the government are talking about doing away with 91.

Right, thank you. The PT website is not easy to follow.

[DaRoadrunner]

Caltex gas stations still have Benzene. Older cars do not run well on Gasohol, which is also highly corrosive. I had to replace an entire fuel system once, you should have seen the state of the fuel pump.

 

Apart from Caltex, anyone know any other that still has Benzene 95?

[Don Mega]

8 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Caltex gas stations still have Benzene. Older cars do not run well on Gasohol, which is also highly corrosive. I had to replace an entire fuel system once, you should have seen the state of the fuel pump.

 

Apart from Caltex, anyone know any other that still has Benzene 95?

some PTT's still have it.

[DaRoadrunner]

Does anyone know if they are going to stop Benzine 95 completely?

[chingmai331]

Here in CM, i've never found a Caltex with benzine.  A few years back  some  Susco stations had benzine. Now only a very few PTT seem to carry it.

Found one PTT near MaeJo univ still selling.

If anyone knows of benzine for sale in CM, plz inform us here.

thanks.

 

I do wonder if Thai govt will ban it.

And then what shall i do to counteract the effects of alcohol in my fuel?

[sniggie]

For us two-stroke fans the reduction in the number of PTT sites supplying pure benzene is concerning. Alcohol is supposed to wreak havoc with the crankcase seals. The nearest places where I can buy a can full are now some 60ks away in the larger cities. Let's hope that it doesn't vanish completely.     

[sniggie]

24 minutes ago, chingmai331 said:

I do wonder if Thai govt will ban it.

It was my understanding that they tried to stop it's supply some years ago when 91 and 95 gasohol appeared. After a short hiatus it reappeared in larger PTT stations (yellow symbol on signs) at a significantly higher price. No real problem for me as my two-stroke bikes are only playthings and I don't use too much fuel.

[Saraphee]

I made a trip this morning 106 to Chiang Mai, Left onto Mahidol, left onto 106 to Hang Dong. I passed at least 4 filling stations offering 95 Benzine.

[KhunBENQ]

On 2/9/2020 at 9:09 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

Does anyone know if they are going to stop Benzine 95 completely?

A least I never saw any publication about such plans.

And as already written, major PTT stations sell it.

Light yellow colored sign, highest price at the station.

 

For PTT they have an (Android) app that serves among others with a specific station search.

An arbitrary example, benzene 95 in Nonthaburi province:

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by KhunBENQ

[samuttodd]

The alcohol causes problems with rubber seals/ o-rings and fitting materials..     In the states we use a product called "HEET"    It gets the water out of your tank.   I think it is straight up isopropyl 100%   not the 70% stuff you get at the drug store.

 

[chingmai331]

If the alcohol in gasohol is causing rubber ring problems, what merit in adding more alcohol as HEET? I want to keep the alcohol, and water, out of my system.

[Coremouse]

Gasoline is a much potent solvent than alcohol

 

Even older EFI cars with no provision to alcohol should be able to use E10, E20, I seen in MR2 community many using gasohol on original hardware no problem. Only at about 40% alcohol things start go north, and first to fail were fuel filter and fuelpump filter, not any rubber seal.

 

If really worried about gasohol, more easier just change fuel system. Actually in Bangkok any parts store you cannot find a fuel hose that isn't rated E85

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

Gasoline is a much potent solvent than alcohol

 

Even older EFI cars with no provision to alcohol should be able to use E10, E20, I seen in MR2 community many using gasohol on original hardware no problem. Only at about 40% alcohol things start go north, and first to fail were fuel filter and fuelpump filter, not any rubber seal.

 

If really worried about gasohol, more easier just change fuel system. Actually in Bangkok any parts store you cannot find a fuel hose that isn't rated E85

Not true. Hydrocarbon-based gasoline is a non-polar solvent. Alcohol is a polar solvent, far more effective in attacking polymers.

If you meant to say gasoline CONTAINING ethanol is a more potent solvent, I would agree with you.

With suitable safety precautions, a fuel containing no ethanol can be generated at home. Buy preferably 5% ethanol fuel, and add water until the mixture separates into two phases. The top layer will be virtually pure hydrocarbon, which can be siphoned off.

[Trujillo]

The PT station near Mooban Suan Non See in Chiang Mai stopped selling what the Thais call benzene a few days ago. My guess is that it's a demand thing. Not many classics or special bikes use it to continue stocking it. 

[Coremouse]

On 2/12/2020 at 5:58 PM, Lacessit said:

Not true. Hydrocarbon-based gasoline is a non-polar solvent. Alcohol is a polar solvent, far more effective in attacking polymers.

If you meant to say gasoline CONTAINING ethanol is a more potent solvent, I would agree with you.

With suitable safety precautions, a fuel containing no ethanol can be generated at home. Buy preferably 5% ethanol fuel, and add water until the mixture separates into two phases. The top layer will be virtually pure hydrocarbon, which can be siphoned off.

Great point, never cared that before. But in practice we know gasoline, kerosene, atf etc. can take down hard seized parts, epoxy paints, many kinds of glue... with ease. Alcohol and isopropyl are known weak and evaporative thus doesn't even hurt paint nor skin.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Coremouse

[toolpush]

On 2/11/2020 at 10:46 PM, sniggie said:

For us two-stroke fans the reduction in the number of PTT sites supplying pure benzene is concerning. Alcohol is supposed to wreak havoc with the crankcase seals. The nearest places where I can buy a can full are now some 60ks away in the larger cities. Let's hope that it doesn't vanish completely.     

Crankcase seals? The alcohol/benzine is burnt in the combustion chamber. How would that affect crankcase seals?

[BKKBike09]

I don't know about CM but in Bangkok a number of PT (the green coloured stations, not PTT) still sell benzene 95.

 

Ministry of Energy last month announced that the government plans to make B10 diesel the primary diesel fuel, and E20 Gasohol the primary gas/petrol fuel. Benzene 91 will be phased out by Q2/Q3 2020. However reportedly there is no plan to do away with 'ordinary benzene' as they call it: the market will still offer Benzene 95, Gasohol 95, E20 and E85.

[Coremouse]

33 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

Great point, never cared that before. But in practice we know gasoline, kerosene, atf etc. can take down hard seized parts, epoxy paints, many kinds of glue... with ease. Alcohol and isopropyl are known weak and evaporative thus doesn't even hurt paint nor skin.

 

 

To be clear not saying alcohol would do any good to rubber, just believe some saying 10% gasohol would be disastrous for EFI cars is bit exaggerated. I wouldn't care unless 1. it's a vintage carburettor; or 2. alcohol content is well above 25% 

[transam]

45 minutes ago, toolpush said:

Crankcase seals? The alcohol/benzine is burnt in the combustion chamber. How would that affect crankcase seals?

Doesn't 2 stroke fuel spend some time on route lubricating the bottom end (crank case) during its travels...?

[canthai55]

25 minutes ago, transam said:

Doesn't 2 stroke fuel spend some time on route lubricating the bottom end (crank case) during its travels...?

Two stroke fuel/air/oil mix goes from carb thru ports in the cylinder, into the crankcase to lube the crankshaft (why they use ball bearings usually), thru Transfer ports to the combustion chamber, where it is ignited by the spark, and as the piston goes down the cycle repeats itself.

 

[transam]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

Two stroke fuel/air/oil mix goes from carb thru ports in the cylinder, into the crankcase to lube the crankshaft (why they use ball bearings usually), thru Transfer ports to the combustion chamber, where it is ignited by the spark, and as the piston goes down the cycle repeats itself.

 

I know....????