Motorbike accident - Need help!

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, taninthai said:

About this handing over passport situation .........we rent bikes out at our place ,never used to take passport or anything then 2 years ago a stupid Swedish tourist completely smashed up the whole front of a 6 month old Yamaha gt 125....told her the realistic price of 6500bht to repair ,big drama accused us of scamming her,,,,,from that day on we do not let bikes go out without either 5000 bht deposit or passport as deposit ,,funny 90% prefer to leave there passport.

if you borrow/hire/rent something off someone it needs to be returned in exact condition it was given to you ,this is not unreasonable request and decent honest people should/would accept this.bike rental business is a pain we have people bring bike back after 3 days with flat tyre and when we say no problem it’s only 140 bht they say it’s not there fault????????????

would you lend/borrow/rent Your car/bike /house to someone with no security deposit?

would you borrow/rent something from someone break it/smash it up and just give it back and walk away ?

Sounds like you need to make it clearer what they are liable for. You don't offer optional 1st class insurance?

[pineapple01]

As Grandpapy use to say Borrower nor Lender Be.There is a Honda Dealer nearby who actually sells Bikes to serious Touring bikers on genuine touring holiday, then buys them back.4 burly Germans came into our watering hole . so being Dutch i could understand their praise for the idea. Me i just hate the Dam things.!

[JoePai]

11 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Sounds like you need to make it clearer what they are liable for. You don't offer optional 1st class insurance?

Cannot get 1st Class on small rentals – only with big bikes (and not always then)

Clear what liable for?  Simple, any damage – note the word any

[scubascuba3]

7 minutes ago, JoePai said:

Cannot get 1st Class on small rentals – only with big bikes (and not always then)

Clear what liable for?  Simple, any damage – note the word any

Good make it clear to renters in future then they can't complain. I recall a company on another forum that did offer 1st class on small bikes, maybe that was limited to bikes 3 years old or less

[papa al]

10 hours ago, pineapple01 said:

As Grandpapy use to say Borrower nor Lender Be.

What he say about leassor and leasee?

"Read the contact, especially the fine print."

... is what grandma said.

[papa al]

10 hours ago, pineapple01 said:

Bikes to serious Touring bikers on genuine touring holiday, then buys them back.4 burly Germans came into our watering hole . so being Dutch i could understand their praise for the idea. Me i just hate the Dam things.!

Which damn things?

Bikes, Germans, ideas?

&

Yes, there are dealers that sell and buy bikes.

That is what dealers do.

????️

[ricklev]

21 hours ago, taninthai said:

About this handing over passport situation .........we rent bikes out at our place ,never used to take passport or anything then 2 years ago a stupid Swedish tourist completely smashed up the whole front of a 6 month old Yamaha gt 125....told her the realistic price of 6500bht to repair ,big drama accused us of scamming her,,,,,from that day on we do not let bikes go out without either 5000 bht deposit or passport as deposit ,,funny 90% prefer to leave there passport.

if you borrow/hire/rent something off someone it needs to be returned in exact condition it was given to you ,this is not unreasonable request and decent honest people should/would accept this.bike rental business is a pain we have people bring bike back after 3 days with flat tyre and when we say no problem it’s only 140 bht they say it’s not there fault????????????

would you lend/borrow/rent Your car/bike /house to someone with no security deposit?

would you borrow/rent something from someone break it/smash it up and just give it back and walk away ?

Don't most bike rental places repair flats for free as a courtesy to the customer?   

[taninthai]

12 minutes ago, ricklev said:

Don't most bike rental places repair flats for free as a courtesy to the customer?   

No if you check paper work it clearly states hirer is responsible for lost key ,lost helmet and flat tyre.......

wouldnt be very good business renting a bike out to 2 overweight ferang for 200/250 aday and then having to keep paying 140/160 bht to repair flat tyre,,,,flat tyres are really common for some reason when you are renting bikes out,,,,,whether it’s the to much weight on the bike or tourists driving to close to the left where all the <deleted> is I don’t know.

[JohnIrish]

I was in the situation once where I had to give them my passport to rent a bike. They also showed me a locked drawer with other passports to "prove" everyone does it. There was no other place in town to rent a bike so I did leave my passport. No accident so all was fine but I will never do that again. 

[scorecard]

On 5/11/2020 at 8:00 PM, Swiss1960 said:

Another example that you should NEVER leave your passport with a rental company, only a copy. There are enough rental companies that accept passport copies. Been there, done that.

 Well said x 3 times.

 

I sometimes wonder why people do this, there's plenty of previous examples of 'held'/'stolen' passports etc., being used (sometimes with collusion of scaly bank staff) to open bank accounts, health insurance policies, with the intent to scam the insurance company with false claims etc. 

[pineapple01]

15 hours ago, papa al said:

Which damn things?

Bikes, Germans, ideas?

&

Yes, there are dealers that sell and buy bikes.

That is what dealers do.

????️

Argumentative Child. Dam Bikes naturally. What else causes so much premature young Death

[saminoz]

On 5/11/2020 at 7:33 PM, ricklev said:

Unfortunately, if you read the contract you signed, you are most likely liable for damages to the bike you rented even if it wasn't your fault.  That doesn't mean what they want is a realistic assessment of the damage to your rented bike.  

If it's the usual <deleted>ty scooter, 50,000 will almost certainly buy a new replacement (not that your scam artist would replace it anyway,  he'd just go to Somchai around the corner and have it fixed up for under 5,000!)

[Kerryd]

For Freddies Sake.

Talk to a LAWYER. Explain the situation and get PROPER legal advice.

Save yourself a lot of time, headaches and possible other problems as well as (possibly) being cheaper than paying the rental place 50k to get your passport back. (The lawyer will discuss their fees with you and you can decide from there whether or not to proceed that way.)

In your case, it could be that it was just a simple accident the likes of which happen very often in Thailand.

However, don't take anything for granted. The lawyer can check out the rental place (to see if they have the proper insurance or if they are running a scam). The lawyer can also check out the other person involved in the accident to see if they are truthful about not having any money.

The lawyer can also talk to the police on your behalf and that would probably carry a lot more "weight" than going there by yourself (even with Thai wife in tow).

Getting advice on how to handle things, from strangers on the internet ? Bad idea.

Getting proper advice from a qualified professional ? Good idea.

 

[LukKrueng]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:00 PM, Swiss1960 said:

the THEFT of the passport. 

He GAVE the passport as a guarantee so how was it stolen? 

As for first class insurance - unless things have changed in the last few years, there's no such thing for (older) bikes. When I bought a brand new big bike I got first class insurance for the first year. Managed to extend it to the second year and that wad it. Couldn't extend it any longer. So most likely the rental bike has no insurance and probably stated in the rental agreement that person who takes the bike is responsible for all damages

[BTB1977]

The guy on the big bike has money. He is lying .I would sugest he sell his big bike and pay the 50,000.

[thailand49]

Sorry I can't agree with the poster.

 

I think he has it a bit wrong because when it comes to bike rentals in Thailand if one things it is the responsibility of the rental shop you are in cloud nine! It would be a shock if you think they have any type of insurance for these bike if one thinks then they haven't done their research any insurance is just your standard require registration each year that covers medical treatment this is when you hear Thais say " have insurance! "

 

In the rental you rent take a good look at the bike age, etc and determine what the value might be if stolen. If I was the ops take the bike if possible to a shop and find out the real cost most likely the rental shops is pushing the value up very common and adding in out of commission cost inflation of cost for Thais are standard. My opinion start dealing and prepared to suck it up you can threaten you will take it to court and if he doesn't have a license to rent etc etc..

 

As for the other biker this is as common as Som Tom when it comes to accident they all say they got no money especially when you are a farang even Thais I know got screwed with this line. You can chase but the cost will not be worth the end result and in the end you can't scrape and get something when you all ready hit bottom. Their court system isn't like the west they don't have the resources so the reason why the police handle these types of cases and many will not prosecute their own.

 

50,000 baht, how old is this bike most rental unless it is a PCX new will run 50,000- 55,000?

 

 

[BTB1977]

Another option for the big bike guy is to give his bike to the rental company as payment of damages made to their bike. 

[Artisi]

On 5/11/2020 at 5:41 PM, time2093 said:

Your BIG mistake was to hand over your passport as a deposit. I seen it to many times happen to foreigners who dont know better and get in an accident your fault or not. It will cost you in the end as forget about getting the money from the Thai guy. Suggest you negotiate with the motor bike owner on a price if you ever want to see your passport again.

Just tell the motor cycle guy, passport back or it will be reported to the police as stolen and the last time you saw it it was in his possession.

And learn from it, treat your passport the same way as you treat the family jewels - very carefully. 

 

 

 

[doubleday]

It worth remembering that when renting cars, that legally 1st class insurance does not cover accidents. Only commercial insurance. Although many renters close their eyes to this and do not inform their customers, when a major serious accident occurs........

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 5/11/2020 at 4:12 PM, Covid19Everywhere said:

to my surprise they write that it’s not my fault

I do not see why that surprises anyone.  I've had a few accidents here and never been blamed (except when one was actually my fault).

[Seldomseen]

Someone said get your thai partner to explain to hire company EXACTLY what you want to say 

from my experience don’t because she will not explain as you would 

give tourist police a call

[pagan1]

19 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

I do not see why that surprises anyone.  I've had a few accidents here and never been blamed (except when one was actually my fault).

Agree. Got rear ended and shunted into the car ahead of me a couple of years ago. Police, Insurance guys, witnesses and the guy I shunted were all great. The Tw** who caused the accident was somewhat subdued and when he tried to suggest it was the Falangs fault was rapidly put in his place by all parties. Car was totaled and the hire company got us to a local hotel. Replacement car was provided next morning. 

I must admit now I have a camera running in the car but would have the same if I was back in the UK. 

[georgy]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

For Freddies Sake.

Talk to a LAWYER. Explain the situation and get PROPER legal advice.

Save yourself a lot of time, headaches and possible other problems as well as (possibly) being cheaper than paying the rental place 50k to get your passport back. (The lawyer will discuss their fees with you and you can decide from there whether or not to proceed that way.)

In your case, it could be that it was just a simple accident the likes of which happen very often in Thailand.

However, don't take anything for granted. The lawyer can check out the rental place (to see if they have the proper insurance or if they are running a scam). The lawyer can also check out the other person involved in the accident to see if they are truthful about not having any money.

The lawyer can also talk to the police on your behalf and that would probably carry a lot more "weight" than going there by yourself (even with Thai wife in tow).

Getting advice on how to handle things, from strangers on the internet ? Bad idea.

Getting proper advice from a qualified professional ? Good idea.

 

better use the money to pay the damage.

[RobbyXNorway]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:24 PM, timendres said:

Unless you are an IO, or put a gun to my head, you will never touch my passport. I have had hospitals demand it, police demand it, shop owners demand it, even building owners demand it. I tell them all to pound sand.

 

Part of the reason you should never part with your passport is that it is NOT YOUR PASSPORT. It actually belongs to the government that issued it.

 

In Norway we had a guy who managed to loose his passport 3 times over a few years. The government then REFUSED to issue a 4th passport to him.

 

Never ever let anyone else possess "your" passport.

 

Sounds to me like OP is up <deleted> creek because he DID sign a rental agreement agreeing to pay for damages. If possible its then best to get the repair done yourself, preferably at a dealership for proper parts.

[Nanaplaza666]

Qeustion: do you hav a thai DL or int.DL because if you don't have a valod DL to begin with the insurance will pay nothing .

[jojothai]

Some people here talking about go get a new passport.

They are not free.

Its going to cost probably at least 5000 baht and all the aggravation and time involved.

Its probably worth about 10,000 baht to avoid that.

As recommended in some posts best go and get some cost quotes for repair before you can determine course of action.

However best send the wife or thai friends to get the quote, you want a local price not the falang rip off price.

[bogozy]

Of course, if a farang are involved in accident, the thai counterpart would be very Poor, of course. No matter, he is driving the latest Benz. Can not pay any satang, for compensation. Very difficult to get out from this situation 

[pineapple01]

Next time he will rent a Jet Ski.

[Tchooptip]

4 hours ago, BTB1977 said:

The guy on the big bike has money. He is lying .I would sugest he sell his big bike and pay the 50,000.

The guy on the big bike has money. He is lying ????

The guy on the big bike is OP:  have a look post 28 "I rented the bigger bike. The other guy had a scooter." 

•  

[spoon1967]

Why did you hand over your passport?  Never hand your passport to anyone, I've been coming to Thailand 4 times a year for 13 years, rented lots of cars and motorbikes, I have never needed to hand over my Passport, nor would I ever agree to it, got asked once in Samui and refused, went to the next rental place, no problem.  

 

As for deposit, if he didn't have your passport, you could walk away, not worth the hassle for 2000 B or so.