The logic of masking

[dingdongrb]

48 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I wonder why you posted these figures.

Yes, 5 new - imported - cases > Regarding today’s COVID-19 situation in Thailand, five new COVID-19 cases were confirmed. Four confirmed cases were those who returned from the United Arab Emirates and the other confirmed case returned from Egypt and they were all under state quarantine

Source: https://ddc.moph.go.th/viralpneumonia/eng/file/news/news_no165_090763.pdf

So NO reported domestic cases in 45 consecutive days...

 

Cool, so those 5 folks didn't come in contact with any airline personnel and walked to the quarantine site without spreading the virus anywhere....nicely done, get yourself another dingdong!

[Peter Denis]

46 minutes ago, dingdongrb said:

Cool, so those 5 folks didn't come in contact with any airline personnel and walked to the quarantine site without spreading the virus anywhere....nicely done, get yourself another dingdong!

Tested positive (and then quarantained) doesn't necessarily mean that you are a 'spreader'.

But I should refrain from responding to your pathetic nonsense...

[steelepulse]

Weren't they wearing masks in Italy, France, Spain and Belgium?  Didn't seem to do them much good.

Edited July 10, 2020 by steelepulse

[Bill97]

14 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Tested positive (and then quarantained) doesn't necessarily mean that you are a 'spreader'.

The point is that it doesn’t necessarily mean you are not a spreader.

[dingdongrb]

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

But I should refrain from responding to your pathetic nonsense...

You really should, but I betcha can't.

[Bill97]

Does it really matter if the cases from the Egyptian soldier and the 8 year old Thai are called “local”?  Clearly there are infected people out and about.  

[JimGant]

On 7/10/2020 at 1:55 PM, dingdongrb said:

so those 5 folks didn't come in contact with any airline personnel and walked to the quarantine site without spreading the virus anywhere..

Yeah, that does beg the question, since virus checks aren't instantaneous -- in fact, they take quite awhile. So, did these folks sit in an isolation ward at the airport awaiting their results? Don't think so -- believed they were transported to their quarantine hotel via normal circumstances, not in hazmat vehicles. Thus, yeah, a lot of wheezing and sneezing could prove deadly.

So, until we get instantaneous results tests for corvid-19 (with acceptable false negatives), passengers allowed into Thailand will need to be transported to their quarantine hotel in isolation.

 

Quote

Tested positive (and then quarantained) doesn't necessarily mean that you are a 'spreader'.

Yeah, if individual in question was isolated prior to testing positive, then quarantined. Don't believe this was the situation... Sounds like the opportunity to sneeze and wheeze amongst the public prevailed itself....

[Dante99]

On 7/10/2020 at 1:55 PM, dingdongrb said:

Cool, so those 5 folks didn't come in contact with any airline personnel and walked to the quarantine site without spreading the virus anywhere....nicely done, get yourself another dingdong!

 

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

Does it really matter if the cases from the Egyptian soldier and the 8 year old Thai are called “local”?  Clearly there are infected people out and about.  

Seems that the Egyptian and the 8 year old Thai, announced yesterday and in today's paper were not kept in quarantine sites, they roamed free.  Spreading the virus to several hundred???

 

How many other free roamers have there been?

Edited July 14, 2020 by Dante99

[Damual Travesty]

When in Rome......

 

Don't even think about it.

[metisdead]

A post with a link to a conspiracy-pseudoscience site has been removed as well as the replies. 

[Captain Monday]

There has been confused messaging coming from Govt sources in US since the beginning and that is big part of the problem. They wanted masks saved for medical personnel and you couldn't buy them anyway.    US needs to to start another 2 month Thai style harsh lockdown and ban all domestic and intl travel or this will never end.

[Peter Denis]

23 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

There has been confused messaging coming from Govt sources in US since the beginning and that is big part of the problem. They wanted masks saved for medical personnel and you couldn't buy them anyway.    US needs to to start another 2 month Thai style harsh lockdown and ban all domestic and intl travel or this will never end.

The motivation for lock-downs was to 'flatten the curve' and avoid the health-system being swamped and not being able to cope with people needing treatment.  The reality was that except for a couple of hard-hit places, the hospitals were never swamped.

The lock-down and other measures were only introduced to 'buy time'.  The simple fact is that eventually everybody will be exposed to covid-19 (you can't hide forever, or wait till the Magic Vaccine will be available for everybody).

Sounds scary but it isn't.  Majority of those that got it, didn't even notice that they were infected or only displayed mild symptoms.  It's the elderly and those with challenged immune systems because of other illnesses or unhealthy lifestyle, that are at risk.  Sure, these need to be protected, but not by imposing across-the-board measures on everybody.

The media did an excellent scare-mongering job even going so far as to block and censure imminent scientists going against the stream and questioning or downright demonstrating the ineffectiveness of some of these measures (including the current Testing-testing-testing paradigm).

I won't go so far as to say that it was a storm in a tea-cup, because that's not correct.  But blind irrational fear is not a good adviser.

[englishoak]

Just hide forever, that should work. 

[Logosone]

The fact is that asymptomatic transmission is in the 0-2.3% range. So the odds of meeting an asymptomatic carrier, who happens to sneeze in your direction are virtually zero. Therefore masks make no sense at all. Totally pointless.

 

Unless a person is sick, then they should wear one.

 

For the healthy the benefit is zero.

[Bill97]

15 minutes ago, Logosone said:

For the healthy the benefit is zero

Nobody knows who is healthy!!!

[Logosone]

23 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Nobody knows who is healthy!!!

I do actually.

 

Since 0.8% of the population have the virus and 0.43% are asymptomatic you can estimate that around 99.2% people do not have the virus.

 

And of course you will know if someone is sick, sick people tend to have symptoms, in the very vast majority of cases. Asymptomatic transmission is so rare, 0-2.3% that you can discount that possibility really.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Logosone

[cantata]

On 7/16/2020 at 10:35 AM, Logosone said:

I do actually.

 

Since 0.8% of the population have the virus and 0.43% are asymptomatic you can estimate that around 99.2% people do not have the virus.

 

And of course you will know if someone is sick, sick people tend to have symptoms, in the very vast majority of cases. Asymptomatic transmission is so rare, 0-2.3% that you can discount that possibility really.

 

 

Thanks for the disinformation.

Top HHS official says ‘most’ of the coronavirus transmission is from asymptomatic people

• Most transmission of the coronavirus is coming from people who are asymptomatic and never develop any signs of the virus, a top official from the Department of Health and Human Services said Friday.
• “Just feeling like you want to go get a test is really not the best strategy, but we know that most of the spread are from asymptomatic people, particularly young adults, so you have to cast a wide net and I think we’re able to do that,” Adm. Brett Giroir said in an interview on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.”
• Scientists have found that people who don’t have symptoms can spread the virus.
• https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/17/top-hhs-official-says-most-of-the-coronavirus-transmission-is-from-asymptomatic-people.html

Edited July 19, 2020 by cantata

[Trujillo]

Brett Giroir went straight into teaching after his fellowship. He did not actually work as a physician in the strict sense of the meaning. And he trained as a pediatrician. 

 

He's claim about transmission is as valid as is the claims by my local veterinarian. 

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, Trujillo said:

He's claim about transmission is as valid as is the claims by my local veterinarian. 

What about Dr Fauci? Oh, that's right -- Trump has dismissed his bonafides. Case shut.

Quote

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious disease expert, said Thursday that asymptomatic people carry as much virus as people who are symptomatic.

Most transmission of the coronavirus is coming from people who are asymptomatic and never develop any signs of the virus

 

[cantata]

4 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Brett Giroir went straight into teaching after his fellowship. He did not actually work as a physician in the strict sense of the meaning. And he trained as a pediatrician. 

 

He's claim about transmission is as valid as is the claims by my local veterinarian. 

 

A little more of what Dr. Fauci said:

“When you measure the level of virus in the nasal pharynx of asymptomatic people, compared to people who are symptomatic, there doesn’t seem to be any difference, which means there’s as much virus in the nose of a person who’s asymptomatic as there is in a symptomatic person,” Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg in an interview. 

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/507807-asymptomatic-spread-responsible-for-most-virus

Edited July 20, 2020 by cantata

[teacherofwoe]

On 7/1/2020 at 9:05 PM, johnpetersen said:

"David Vaughan Icke (/ˈdeɪvɪd vɔːn aɪk/; born 29 April 1952) is an English conspiracy theorist,^[1][3][4][5] and a former footballer and sports broadcaster.^[6] Icke has written more than 20 books and has lectured in over 25 countries.^[7][8]

In 1990, while spokesman for the Green Party, he visited a psychic who he said told him he had been placed on earth for a purpose and would begin to receive messages from the spirit world.^[9] These events led him to announce the following year that he was a "Son of the Godhead"^[6] and that the world would soon be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes, a prediction he repeated on the BBC's primetime show Wogan.^[10][11] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

You clearly haven't read any of his books, been to any of his ten hour presentations at many of his world wide tours, or heard any of his podcasts. But, if wikipedia is your place to go, then go nuts. Icke was the one who exposed wikipedia as a man and a dog organization rewriting their content by a few to suit the powers that be. Are you dismissive or confused now?

[Bill97]

I had coughed a few times to clear food stuck I’m my throat while eating.

 

He came to my table and said “you can’t cough in public”.  After I told him “ go away” he said “ do you have a mask?”

 

I called Suan Prung and their guys with the 4XL butterfly net came and hauled him away.  I had dessert to make up for the lunch intrusion.

 

Safe back home until next week’s trip to town. 

[Trujillo]

So even though we have ... what is it now? (it's getting so large it's hard to keep track) about nine cycles of 14-day covid free living in Thailand (with a few red herrings along the way), we are to enter our sixth STATE OF EMERGENCY!

 

I have found it interesting to see what can only be called, "Mask fatigue" by the locals in my city. Aside from indoor shopping, a lot more people are forgoing wearing masks. And the real interesting feature here is that the people you notice more often than not disregarding the mask edict are merchant vendors. People selling things in markets and walking streets are the ones, in many cases, not wearing masks -- the very people who come into contact with hundreds of people each day. You would think if any group of people "needed" to wear masks for protective reasons it would be those individuals. (Think of the difference between two lovers and the line-up at a kissing booth.)

 

To me, it shows that people here are starting to think for themselves and understand that while we all support good health, wearing a mask when the coast has been clear for nine quarantine cycles isn't for health reasons. 

 

And another thing I notice is that quite a few foreigners wear a mask pulled down exposing their (big) nose. If you are wearing a mask and not covering your nose, why bother at all? Even people not wearing glasses do this. Weird. 

 

Another interesting thing, and this seems to be a global phenomenon, is that more and more, the color black is taking over as the defacto mask color. It's interesting that more people forget the association with masked bandits and robbers in black hiding their faces. Or maybe in this BLM cult time, this is exactly the point. 

 

[pgthompson]

[connda]

The logic of masking?

It's a great way to socially condition the public.  And after a 6 month propaganda campaign of non-stop public pronouncements and dire warnings emanating from now autocratic governments and disseminated via main-stream media outlets and amplified on social media, a large majority of the plebs now suffer from a pathological fear of being infected with and dying of SARS-Covid-2. Whether it's a rational fear or irrational fear doesn't matter.  It's the effectiveness of the conditioning.  So, many who suffer from fear of Covid don masks to ameliorate their fear of dying.  I have a family member who suffers from frequent, almost debilitating nightmares about being in a room with maskless people and in this dream she can "see" the virus in the air as the virus hunts her down and infects her.  This reoccurring dream really makes her suffer.  So, mask wearing provides a psychological life-saver for those, like my family member, who believes that this flu is gonna get them.  These people wear masks while driving alone in a sealed vehicles, while exercising alone at home, and my family member with the nightmares routinely hikes in local forests that are devoid of humans and she still wears a mask. 
Rational?  Imho? No.  It's a symptom of what is now deep-seed, psychological damage within the general population and mask wearing provide a method to control the environment and therefore control the fear.  Our governments, scientific "experts", and the media have turned large segments of our global societies into populations suffering from mass obsessive–compulsive disorder.

Then they leverage it.  Obey, snitch on your neighbors,  follow the rules, trust your leaders, stay within the lines, don't rock the boat - conform.  If you comply, you'll be "safe." We promise.  "Now get your masks on!"

It reads like dystopian science-fiction, but...there ya have it. The world has become Adrian Monk.


 

[Cod Face]

On 6/30/2020 at 7:49 AM, robblok said:

BBC report showed Thailand having around 2500 deaths more then average in the last months.

Well, if the BBC said it, it must be true!  The wonderful BBC doesn't ever get things wrong or promote falsehoods, does it?

[Bill97]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

The logic of masking?

It's a great way to socially condition the public.  And after a 6 month propaganda campaign of non-stop public pronouncements and dire warnings emanating from now autocratic governments and disseminated via main-stream media outlets and amplified on social media, a large majority of the plebs now suffer from a pathological fear of being infected with and dying of SARS-Covid-2. Whether it's a rational fear or irrational fear doesn't matter.  It's the effectiveness of the conditioning.  So, many who suffer from fear of Covid don masks to ameliorate their fear of dying.  I have a family member who suffers from frequent, almost debilitating nightmares about being in a room with maskless people and in this dream she can "see" the virus in the air as the virus hunts her down and infects her.  This reoccurring dream really makes her suffer.  So, mask wearing provides a psychological life-saver for those, like my family member, who believes that this flu is gonna get them.  These people wear masks while driving alone in a sealed vehicles, while exercising alone at home, and my family member with the nightmares routinely hikes in local forests that are devoid of humans and she still wears a mask. 
Rational?  Imho? No.  It's a symptom of what is now deep-seed, psychological damage within the general population and mask wearing provide a method to control the environment and therefore control the fear.  Our governments, scientific "experts", and the media have turned large segments of our global societies into populations suffering from mass obsessive–compulsive disorder.

Then they leverage it.  Obey, snitch on your neighbors,  follow the rules, trust your leaders, stay within the lines, don't rock the boat - conform.  If you comply, you'll be "safe." We promise.  "Now get your masks on!"

It reads like dystopian science-fiction, but...there ya have it. The world has become Adrian Monk.


 

Don’t worry, they are not after you. 
 

They already got you.

[connda]

3 hours ago, Trujillo said:

To me, it shows that people here are starting to think for themselves and understand that while we all support good health, wearing a mask when the coast has been clear for nine quarantine cycles isn't for health reasons. 

Which show why compulsory mask wearing isn't about protecting the public from one kind of virus at the exclusion of all others.  It's about compliance. 

When will mask wearing be rolled back.  After there are no reported cases in a country for over three months? (well, not here)  A year?  Two years?  After a vaccination?  When there are zero cases?  When all pathogens have been eradicated from the Earth? 

Wearing a mask is a sign of social conformity and probably will be for the rest of our lives.  If not a mask, then something else will take it's place.  Those with high power needs and greed have tasted the sweetness of autocratic power.  They'll never let go of that voluntarily.   So?  "Get your mask on bro'!"

[connda]

3 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Don’t worry, they are not after you. 
 

They already got you.

Get your muzzle on Bill.  Good boy.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/30/2020 at 12:29 PM, FolkGuitar said:

The decision to stop wearing a mask while the entire world is reeling from Covid19, with thousands of deaths daily, and no one really certain just who is or is not spreading the virus, isn't a political or even a medical statement.

It's an IQ test.

The NZ government has not made mask wearing compulsory except on public transport. Where I live very very few wear a mask since beginning of March, and the number of infections in this area since March is to my knowledge ZERO. In the whole of NZ the infection rate is low and very few deaths. Most of the current cases are those immigrants in quarantine that caught it outside NZ.

 

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/27-08-2020/what-you-need-to-know-about-new-zealands-new-face-mask-rules/

From Monday, all New Zealanders will be required to wear a face mask on public transport for the first time. Up until recently, wearing a mask on public transport or around crowds had been “strongly encouraged” by health officials, but from next week, it’ll be compulsory to wear a face-covering on public transport and planes.

Health minister Chris Hipkins said this would now be the rule at alert level two and above.

 

NB Mask wearing was not compulsory till now, and is only on public transport.

NZ is mostly in level 1 now except for Auckland which is in level 2.