Trump must give his tax returns to NY prosecutor, judge rules

[webfact]

Trump must give his tax returns to NY prosecutor, judge rules

By Karen Freifeld and Jonathan Stempel

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Donald Trump cannot block a prosecutor's subpoena for eight years of his tax returns, a federal judge ruled on Thursday, in the latest setback in the U.S. president's longstanding effort to keep his finances under wraps.

 

U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero in Manhattan rejected Trump's claims that the grand jury subpoena from Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance to the president's accounting firm Mazars USA was "wildly overbroad" and issued in bad faith.

 

In a 103-page decision, Marrero also said letting Trump block the subpoena, which was issued last August, would amount to an "undue expansion" of presidential immunity.

 

"Justice requires an end to this controversy," Marrero wrote.

 

Trump quickly appealed the decision and filed an emergency motion to delay turning over his tax returns, saying enforcing the subpoena would cause him irreparable harm by disclosing his "private, confidential information."

 

The litigation and grand jury secrecy rules make it unlikely Trump's financial records will become public before Nov. 3, when the president is seeking reelection.

 

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said the case will likely head back to the Supreme Court, which on July 9 rejected his earlier argument he was immune from state criminal probes while in office.

 

The Supreme Court said the Republican president could still challenge the subpoena on other grounds. Marrero had also ruled last October that Vance, a Democrat, could enforce the subpoena.

 

"This is a continuation of the most disgusting witch hunt in the history of our country," Trump told reporters. "This is the ultimate fishing expedition."

A spokesman for Vance declined to comment.

 

Donald Trump cannot block a prosecutor's subpoena for eight years of his tax returns, a federal judge ruled on Thursday, in the latest setback in the U.S. president's longstanding effort to keep his finances under wraps. This report produced by Jillian Kitchener.

 

Trump has long fought efforts by lawmakers and prosecutors to obtain those records, and by withholding his tax returns has departed from the decades-long practice of his predecessors.

 

The subpoena is related to Vance's criminal probe into Trump and his Trump Organization.

 

In a court filing this month, Vance suggested the subpoena was related to "possibly extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization," including alleged insurance and bank fraud.

 

Marrero accepted Vance's argument that letting Trump delay the subpoena's enforcement would effectively give the president "absolute temporary immunity" from the probe while in the White House.

 

Unless enforcing the subpoena would affect his constitutional duties, "the President is entitled to claim no greater shield from judicial process than any other person," Marrero wrote.

 

Vance's probe began after reports that Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen paid pornographic film actress Stormy Daniels $130,000 to buy her silence before the 2016 election about claimed sexual encounters with Trump, which he has denied.

 

The case is Trump v Vance et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, No. 19-08694.

 

(Reporting by Karen Freifeld and Jonathan Stempel; additional reporting by Jeff Mason in Washington. Editing by Alistair Bell)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-08-21

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[Tug]

Good enough bs fork them over nothing to hide nothing to fear humm........

[simple1]

trump will appeal to the Supreme Court to ensure his tax info is unavailable until after the elections. 

[Kelsall]

Interesting timing.  ????

[mtls2005]

22 minutes ago, webfact said:

"This is a continuation of the most disgusting witch hunt in the history of our country,

The president says as he gets off his broom.

 

23 minutes ago, webfact said:

"This is the ultimate fishing expedition."

Even as the target if a criminal investigation he makes it superlative.

 

 

 

Financial details will drop (not these Manhattan documents, but others) so prepare for the worst.

 

Would be nice if Cy Vance owned up to why he chose not to prosecute ivanka and don jr. back in 2012.

 

"I will release my returns when the audit(s) are finished."

 

They're finished.

 

[mtls2005]

Just now, Kelsall said:

Interesting timing.  ????

 

Access Hollywood tape --> Wikileaks.

 

With Russian help, now that's interesting timing.

 

 

[Laza 45]

19 minutes ago, simple1 said:

trump will appeal to the Supreme Court to ensure his tax info is unavailable until after the elections. 

the supreme court just sent it back to a lower court.. end of story there..

[simple1]

3 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

the supreme court just sent it back to a lower court.. end of story there..

 

So what's the path for trump's lawyers appeal?

[PatOngo]

23 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

Interesting timing.  ????

Yes, it will be interesting to see him try and sleaze his way out of this!

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

the supreme court just sent it back to a lower court.. end of story there..

And lower court has ruled now, so it goes back up, ending with SC.

[Laza 45]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

So what's the path for trump's lawyers appeal?

...from what I've read he doesn't have much of a path... he can appeal.. but it seems he has exhausted his arguments.. the best he can do now is delay.. if the courts let him... we shall see.. 

[2 is 1]

Hole thing is ridiculous! We see everybody's tax in Finland that is puplic records there!

If he has pay tax of cource there have to be some kind records for that payment!Or there don't have any institution who know what he has pay or not pay! What kind middle age system you have there in land of great! There have to be much sht what cant see "daylight" or maybe he just don't have money to show. And that is something what he can't show , him to be penniless!

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by 2 is 1

[mtls2005]

18 minutes ago, 2 is 1 said:

And that is something what he can't show , him to be penniless!

 

Recent financial disclosure, filed after two extensions...these are required by law, and are slef-reported and not subject to audit.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/31/politics/read-trump-financial-disclosure-2019/index.html

 

 

 

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, Kelsall said:

Interesting timing.  ????

This is dragging on for 5 years. He can't still be in the audit and hence "not allowed to disclose" his tax returns? Who is the auditor? You'd expect a reasonable auditor to be able to complete a job on 1 person within 5 years. Else US would require a few billion auditors just to check everyone's taxes each year...

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, 2 is 1 said:

Hole thing is ridiculous! We see everybody's tax in Finland that is puplic records there!

If he has pay tax of cource there have to be some kind records for that payment!Or there don't have any institution who know what he has pay or not pay! What kind middle age system you have there in land of great! There have to be much sht what cant see "daylight" or maybe he just don't have money to show. And that is something what he can't show , him to be penniless!

 

Well here's the simple reason - he's a fraud. Tax records could either reveal that he's evading taxes: so he's rich but criminal; or that he's paying little or no taxes: which would mean that he's nowhere near as rich as he claims.

 

No good outcome for him, so he's dragging it as long as he can.

 

People said he won't show his returns until after elections the last time around... well... 4 years later... still no sight of them.

[Somtamnication]

Judge Victor Marrero..lol. That wall is crumbling now. Waiting for Trump to attack this judge, too.

[4MyEgo]

[Berkshire]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

In a court filing this month, Vance suggested the subpoena was related to "possibly extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization," including alleged insurance and bank fraud.

Oh dear, Donald.  They're coming for you and your criminal enterprise.  You and your family are toast.  It's only a matter of time. 

[bendejo]

25 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

What, me worry?

 

 

[Eric Loh]

Walls are closing down on him and his family who are facing criminal referrals in the Russia 2016 election involvement. Don Jr, Kushner and Trump's associates including Bannon lied to the Rep led Senate Intelligence Committee and are felony cases. Maybe Biden will allow them to exile to Russia. 

[crobe]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Walls are closing down on him and his family who are facing criminal referrals in the Russia 2016 election involvement. Don Jr, Kushner and Trump's associates including Bannon lied to the Rep led Senate Intelligence Committee and are felony cases. Maybe Biden will allow them to exile to Russia. 

Prisoner swap - Donald Trump for Edward Snowden

[mtls2005]

28 minutes ago, crobe said:

Prisoner swap - Donald Trump for Edward Snowden

Leave snowden, send vodka.

 

 

[ChouDoufu]

2 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Well here's the simple reason - he's a fraud. Tax records could either reveal that he's evading taxes: so he's rich but criminal; or that he's paying little or no taxes: which would mean that he's nowhere near as rich as he claims.

 

No good outcome for him, so he's dragging it as long as he can.

 

People said he won't show his returns until after elections the last time around... well... 4 years later... still no sight of them.

 

i don't doubt that he's a fraud, but there's a flaw in your reasoning.  the irs has all of trump's tax returns and would have audited him, probably annually....especially under the obama regime with his weaponized irs.  if there's anything illegal there, the irs would surely have caught it.  if not enough to prosecute, it certainly would have been leaked.

 

i'm sure he's NOT paying taxes, as he had nearly a billion bucks of losses from his latest casino bankruptcy to carry forward and apply to future profits.  the fact that someone pays no tax has little relation to their richiness.  the wealthy can afford excellent lawyers and accountants, they have friends in congress, and lobbyists to sow green envelopes and reap delicious tax breaks for the privileged few.  only the little people pay taxes, right google?

[JusticeGB]

Tax returns don't disclose very much although they do disclose income and turnover. Look at published accounts of limited companies they just give totals of various types of income and expenses. Unless you can get hold of the books and records behind the tax accounts you can only roughly determine how much money he has "declared" as income. His actual income could be vastly different. Taxable income differs from expendable income.

[mtls2005]

24 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

the irs has all of trump's tax returns and would have audited him, probably annually....especially under the obama regime with his weaponized irs.  if there's anything illegal there, the irs would surely have caught it. 

 

Epic fail.

 

Audits reveal underpayments. Payments are made, with penalties.

 

Could be something there. Seems like the public should be made aware of this?

 

The IRS does not do criminal investigations. I meant to say "prosecutions" here. Sorry.

 

 

nixon fought audits, got caught, had to pay up.

 

And for the record, nixon did use the IRS to harrass enemies; it was in an Article of Impeachment

 

In 1974, a Bill of Impeachment against President Richard Nixon was approved by the House Judiciary Committee that included charges that his administration attempted to use the IRS in a discriminatory manner:

 

RESOLVED, That Richard M. Nixon, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanours...
Using the powers of the office of President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States...
He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to... cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be initiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner.[

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by mtls2005

[pmarlin]

3 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Well here's the simple reason - he's a fraud. Tax records could either reveal that he's evading taxes: so he's rich but criminal; or that he's paying little or no taxes: which would mean that he's nowhere near as rich as he claims.

 

No good outcome for him, so he's dragging it as long as he can.

 

People said he won't show his returns until after elections the last time around... well... 4 years later... still no sight of them.

You have a DA looking for a crime instead of investigating a crime. That DA will never see the tax returns. Others have tried and failed. 

[Berkshire]

7 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

i don't doubt that he's a fraud, but there's a flaw in your reasoning.  the irs has all of trump's tax returns and would have audited him, probably annually....especially under the obama regime with his weaponized irs.  if there's anything illegal there, the irs would surely have caught it.  if not enough to prosecute, it certainly would have been leaked.

 

i'm sure he's NOT paying taxes, as he had nearly a billion bucks of losses from his latest casino bankruptcy to carry forward and apply to future profits.  the fact that someone pays no tax has little relation to their richiness.  the wealthy can afford excellent lawyers and accountants, they have friends in congress, and lobbyists to sow green envelopes and reap delicious tax breaks for the privileged few.  only the little people pay taxes, right google?

There are so many holes in your posts that it reads like Swiss cheese.  Firstly, Republicans are always quick to point out that the wealthiest Americans pay most of the taxes in the USA and that lower income folks pay next to nothing.  This to fight against raising taxes on rich folks.  Of course there are unsavory types (e.g., Trump) who are always looking to cheat the system.

 

As for Trump's tax returns, if there's really nothing there, WHY NOT REVEAL IT???  Trump has been fighting tooth and nail during his entire term to prevent disclosure.  Makes absolutely no sense if he has nothing to hide. 

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

i don't doubt that he's a fraud, but there's a flaw in your reasoning.  the irs has all of trump's tax returns and would have audited him, probably annually....especially under the obama regime with his weaponized irs.  if there's anything illegal there, the irs would surely have caught it.  if not enough to prosecute, it certainly would have been leaked.

 

i'm sure he's NOT paying taxes, as he had nearly a billion bucks of losses from his latest casino bankruptcy to carry forward and apply to future profits.  the fact that someone pays no tax has little relation to their richiness.  the wealthy can afford excellent lawyers and accountants, they have friends in congress, and lobbyists to sow green envelopes and reap delicious tax breaks for the privileged few.  only the little people pay taxes, right google?

IRS checks if taxes are being paid as required. If he is undervaluing property for tax purposes and overvaluing those properties for finance purposes the IRS would be interested, but they would not know about that. from his taxes.

[ChouDoufu]

4 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

The IRS does not do criminal investigations.

 

the irs disagrees.

 

The Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation Division conducts criminal investigations regarding alleged violations of the Internal Revenue Code, the Bank Secrecy Act and various money laundering statutes. The findings of these investigations are referred to the Department of Justice for recommended prosecution. 

 

https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/how-criminal-investigations-are-initiated

 

so, yeah.  if he done illegal stuff, he'da been caught.  he'll be using all the tax breaks and grey-area stuff his very well-paid lawyers and accountants to ensure he pays as little as possible, likely zero.

[mtls2005]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

IRS checks if taxes are being paid as required. If he is undervaluing property for tax purposes and overvaluing those properties for finance purposes the IRS would be interested, but they would not know about that. from his taxes.

 

Yep. Bingo. We have a winner.

 

Say you have a property, and declare a value for say depreciation on a return (IRS). Liable for an adjustment and penalty.

 

And then you claim it has a higher value to secure a loan (to buy the Buffalo Bills). FRAUD.

 

And then you fight the local government for a reduction in value to pay lower taxes. FRAUD.

 

 

If there were no there there he'd release the returns. That he doesn't says a lot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by mtls2005