It's Getting Worse...More Shops Closing Down

[BigStar]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Saw a Thai family having dinner in the hungry hippo yesterday.

Exactly. The problem with the specious, bigoted us vs them argument is that it ignores a vast number of businesses that serve both Thais and farangs, not to mention other international tourists. One of the best examples I know of is Hops on Beach Rd. Talked to brewmeister Tim the other day and he said it's been packed out with lines outside.

 

So, businesses catering to Thais or to both Thais and farang are in a better position at present than those catering exclusively to farang. This is so obvious I dunno why it needs repeating every 5 minutes.

 

Yep, a tourist town does better, economically, when tourists visit. Weekends and holidays have seen more domestic tourists coming in, increasingly so, for at least 10 years. That's a big part of the reason the extra lane was put in on Beach Rd. Nothing in the least new here.

 

Now we also have to play the scary music and ask this rather fallacious question every 5 min: Will the increased trade on weekends and holidays--and some during the week--be enough? Could we settle this once and for all? Here's the answer:

 

It will be enough for some, for others it won't.

 

But which? Oooh. Wait and see, then just roll with it. Nothing you can do, except maybe flap gums. In a quasi-free economy, no business is guaranteed to stay in business into perpetuity, though it should be according to the TVF Mausoleum Principle.

 

Meanwhile, it's another fine afternoon to be in Pattaya.????

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by BigStar

[AlfHuy]

I am just back from Megabagna. It was completely packed. Car park full, shops full, restaurants full.

What crisis?

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, AlfHuy said:

I am just back from Megabagna. It was completely packed. Car park full, shops full, restaurants full.

What crisis?

Its a public holiday today

[morrobay]

23 hours ago, Leaver said:

I agree with you 110%.  A cash injection into the local Pattaya economy is a good thing. 

 

I suppose we are seeing the divide between domestic Thai tourism and western tourism, financially, and culturally.

 

Unfortunately, domestic tourism will not do much for businesses catering for western tourists and expats, which means many of the place expats frequent see no cash injection from domestic tourism, except for a few farang moving about the country.  

 

 

The Thais Ive seen in Northern Pattaya these few days have been an affluent crowd . The parking lots from Siam Siam to Dusit Thani have been very full. May be a new day coming for domestic tourism. For sure not the pick up trucks / som tam  folks.    Line 2  above : This cultural/financial divide between domestic tourism and expats is emerging too. Unlike the past majority of Thais in Pattaya both local and visitors who either benefited or indifferent to foreigners ,These more affluent Thais have no use for expats whatsoever and some cases dislike them.  *These middle/upper class Thais are not happy with the foreigners and their up country women. These same Thais are internet  and English savvy and , I nave been told, are fed up with the ongoing  criticism / condescending comments online year in year out by foreigners . * Just my opinion  from observing  the looks.

Edited September 7, 2020 by morrobay

[ChipButty]

My wife and her friend went to King Power in Phuket Sunday morning she said it was rammed 3 times she had to drive around the car park, 

[redwood1]

57 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Exactly. The problem with the specious, bigoted us vs them argument is that it ignores a vast number of businesses that serve both Thais and farangs, not to mention other international tourists. One of the best examples I know of is Hops on Beach Rd. Talked to brewmeister Tim the other day and he said it's been packed out with lines outside.

 

So, businesses catering to Thais or to both Thais and farang are in a better position at present than those catering exclusively to farang. This is so obvious I dunno why it needs repeating every 5 minutes.

 

Yep, a tourist town does better, economically, when tourists visit. Weekends and holidays have seen more domestic tourists coming in, increasingly so, for at least 10 years. That's a big part of the reason the extra lane was put in on Beach Rd. Nothing in the least new here.

 

Now we also have to play the scary music and ask this rather fallacious question every 5 min: Will the increased trade on weekends and holidays--and some during the week--be enough? Could we settle this once and for all? Here's the answer:

 

It will be enough for some, for others it won't.

 

But which? Oooh. Wait and see, then just roll with it. Nothing you can do, except maybe flap gums. In a quasi-free economy, no business is guaranteed to stay in business into perpetuity, though it should be according to the TVF Mausoleum Principle.

 

Meanwhile, it's another fine afternoon to be in Pattaya.????

 

Farangs just need to figure out the Indian restaurant business model where customers are not needed to have a successful business......Then all will be ok.....

 

 

[ukrules]

5 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

My wife and her friend went to King Power in Phuket Sunday morning she said it was rammed 3 times she had to drive around the car park, 

Compare that to next Sunday

[BigStar]

46 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Farangs just need to figure out the Indian restaurant business model where customers are not needed to have a successful business......Then all will be ok.....

TVF Economists, using the infallible Clairvoyant Eyeballs, have already established that the basis of the Indian restaurant business model is precisely the same as that of the Thai shopping mall model: money laundering. Simple. How come farangs can't figure out how to do that for themselves? They're all fabulously wealthy, underpinning the Thai economy and all, and just hate paying tax. And they're always watching crime shows on iPlayer. 

 

However, a large percentage of the Indian restos in Pattaya have now closed. WOT? Could it be the Eyeballs have missed something in the past?

Edited September 7, 2020 by BigStar

[Ron jeremy]

This is proof that the retirees and expats living there have little economic impact. They do little to keep businesses open, they need the Chinese back to get things going again. Cheap Charlie sex tourists do nothing for the economy.

[Susco]

1 minute ago, Ron jeremy said:

This is proof that the retirees and expats living there have little economic impact. They do little to keep businesses open, they need the Chinese back to get things going again. Cheap Charlie sex tourists do nothing for the economy.

Not sure where you get that from.

 

When did the Chinese influx in Pattaya started? Probably 3 - 4 years ago.

 

Pattaya was what it is today long before that. It is the western tourists that have built Pattaya, not the Asians

[GeorgeCross]

6 hours ago, morrobay said:

The Thais Ive seen in Northern Pattaya these few days have been an affluent crowd . The parking lots from Siam Siam to Dusit Thani have been very full. May be a new day coming for domestic tourism. For sure not the pick up trucks / som tam  folks.    Line 2  above : This cultural/financial divide between domestic tourism and expats is emerging too. Unlike the past majority of Thais in Pattaya both local and visitors who either benefited or indifferent to foreigners ,These more affluent Thais have no use for expats whatsoever and some cases dislike them.  *These middle/upper class Thais are not happy with the foreigners and their up country women. These same Thais are internet  and English savvy and , I nave been told, are fed up with the ongoing  criticism / condescending comments online year in year out by foreigners . * Just my opinion  from observing  the looks.

 

you got all that just from a few looks? 

 

move over Derren Brown, you got some competition ????

 

[kinyara]

49 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

This is proof that the retirees and expats living there have little economic impact. They do little to keep businesses open, they need the Chinese back to get things going again. Cheap Charlie sex tourists do nothing for the economy.

Agreed, no one has missed you since you left. 

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

This is proof that the retirees and expats living there have little economic impact. They do little to keep businesses open, they need the Chinese back to get things going again. Cheap Charlie sex tourists do nothing for the economy.

I usually go along with that line of thought, Western Expats over-estimate their value here to Thailand. But they do keep the businesses aimed at them open, like bars and restaurants. The Chinese have their own restaurants, usually large feeding stations, Chinese owned, but contribute zilch to the Western bars and restaurants. CC Sex tourists keep the nightlife, and such going, and give many ladies an income over and above their worth... and that feeds the kids they had at 14 or 15. IF the CC tourists moved on, not sure what they would do, hard for these older ladies to get a job.

[ChipButty]

14 hours ago, ukrules said:

Compare that to next Sunday

She tells me she had a load of discount vouchers not valid after today. 

[scubascuba3]

37 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I usually go along with that line of thought, Western Expats over-estimate their value here to Thailand.

Isn't that just fake news that keeps getting repeated. Everyone who spends money contributes to other people earning money, whether that's street food sellers, 7 Eleven, guesthouses, bars etc etc, it all adds up. I don't care if the Chinese or Indian spend more, couldn't care less, 2 week millionaires always do, I doubt they spend as much back home

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Isn't that just fake news that keeps getting repeated. Everyone who spends money contributes to other people earning money,

It is a claim I read on this forum ad naseum. What some Expat spends has no impact on the majority of people, nearly everyone, it is a drop in a large pond. Considering many Expats  pay no Thai taxes, no road taxes and no income tax, I have to often wonder if their nett benefit is negative. And Thailand is focused more on the big picture, like 7 million tourists who do go home.

Edited September 8, 2020 by jacko45k

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

It is a claim I read on this forum ad naseum. What some Expat spends has no impact on the majority of people, nearly everyone, it is a drop in a large pond. Considering many Expats  pay no Thai taxes, no road taxes and no income tax, I have to often wonder if their nett benefit is negative. And Thailand is focused more on the big picture, like 7 million tourists who do go home.

My spend here is 50,000 baht a month. I pay tax on the interest on bank deposits. I pay registration and insurance on two cars and two scooters. I pay service tax at restaurants that apply it. My internet connection invoice has a tax component, as does my electricity. Saying I pay no tax is nonsense.

Granted, I may not be spending as much as a two week tourist. However, there aren't any around, nor will there be while there is a two week quarantine as part of the terms of entry to Thailand. And I daresay I spend a hell of a lot more than the average Thai.

 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

My spend here is 50,000 baht a month. I pay tax on the interest on bank deposits. I pay registration and insurance on two cars and two scooters. I pay service tax at restaurants that apply it. My internet connection invoice has a tax component, as does my electricity. Saying I pay no tax is nonsense.

Granted, I may not be spending as much as a two week tourist. However, there aren't any around, nor will there be while there is a two week quarantine as part of the terms of entry to Thailand. And I daresay I spend a hell of a lot more than the average Thai.

 

Agreed,

I pay 7% VAT on everything I buy, I tax 1 car and 3 m/cs.

How is that 'not paying tax'?

 

There's a large posting contingent that only post to put down foreigners, I just put them on ignore now.

It's not as if they contribute anything to any discussions.

 

Let's say 2M foreigners still here, spending 50k/month .... 1,200,000,000,000bht/year.

(is that too many '0's?) Looks like a number that would impact the Thai economy to me.

Edited September 8, 2020 by BritManToo

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

My spend here is 50,000 baht a month.

And if you got on a plane tomorrow the only people who would miss your small input would be those you live with and perhaps support.

Re-read my post, it doesn't say ALL Expats. Tax on bank interest is 15/100x0.5/100 p.a. and I am surprised you found it worth mentioning, along with the other little buttons! You forgot property tax .

 

Comparing yourself to a Thai is a diversion, they were born here and are citizens and have a right of abode. As I said, a claim I read on this forum ad naseum.

You spend 50,000 a month for your own benefit not the Thai people's.

Anyhow, this morning I got the gardener coming, 1600 baht, and the bug sprayer, 1800 baht, (better examples for you). Must dash.

[CorpusChristie]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

.

Anyhow, this morning I got the gardener coming, 1600 baht, 

Make sure that your Wife isnt left at home alone with the gardener 

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Let's say 2M foreigners still here, spending 50k/month .... 1,200,000,000,000bht/year.

Don't know where you get that number from but I don't think there are 2 million Expats in Thailand. If you include working foreigners that is not the discussion. The baht value you pull from somewhere needs some source.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Make sure that your Wife isnt left at home alone with the gardener 

Hell no... funny guy, his truck is 40+ years old and barely makes it up the street. Saw him wearing a crash helmet a while back and was pleased he was protecting his eyes while working, happy he had reacted to my concerns. Then he showed me his eye that had been hit a week prior... they can't be told but they can learn!

Bought his some safety glasses from HomePro.

Edited September 8, 2020 by jacko45k

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

And if you got on a plane tomorrow the only people who would miss your small input would be those you live with and perhaps support.

The country would lose out on 50k/month of foreign exchange.

All the western countries seem to be obsessed about stuff like balance of payments and foreign sourced income. Guess Thailand is different.

Think you're probably not worth my reading, goodbye.

Edited September 8, 2020 by BritManToo

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The country would lose out on 50k/month of foreign exchange.

They have 8 trillion plus to fall back on.

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

 

 

Let's say 2M foreigners still here, spending 50k/month .... 1,200,000,000,000bht/year.

(is that too many '0's?) Looks like a number that would impact the Thai economy to me.

Theres an estimated 2.5 million foreigners living in Thailand , the large majority of those are from neighboring Countries .

   Theses an estimated 250 000 Felangs living in Thailand , I would guess about 75 % of those have genuine marriage/retirement/work visas and that have no issues with staying long term .

  Theres probably about 50 000 felangs living in Thailand who may have to leave soon, due to visa issues

Thailand used to get 100 000 tourists visit per day , 50 000 felangs leaving will hardly be noticed by the Country , although those that live off the felangs will be effected 

[Chelseafan]

On 9/1/2020 at 7:31 PM, BigStar said:

No, TAT: TVF says that Thais only spend on som tam and Sangsom and don't stay in hotels & condos. However, if domestic tourists did actually exist, they'd be found, for example, to spend in a full range of Thai & Thai-foreign restos, very much including those in the tourist areas of Pattaya, some which have a high concentration of such. Perhaps OP can't see any of those because Thais are in them. This is commonly the case with shopping malls, where no shoppers have ever been seen.

 

It isn't as written, but to those who don't acknowledge domestic tourism, it of course must seem so. The businesses throughout Pattaya, and notably those in Central (which the OP specifically mentions), serve the wants and needs of all people, not just members of this forum.

 

Limiting the "category of customer" only to TVF members is simply your own irrelevant and inappropriate restriction, not the OP's, and my observation that about as many businesses are open as 2 weeks ago, with many doing better on weekends and holidays, is a legitimate observation, though puzzling.

 

 

While the locals may be propping up SOME of the lost tourism income, it's inconsistant and limited to weekends (certainly for Pattaya anyhow) not only that, my missus just stayed in a large 2 apartement room in VT6 for 1000 a night. That same room for Farangs is 2500-3000 per night. That's a 66% drop in income, multiply that across all the rooms across the city and the fact that Mon-Thurs hotels are empty and thats a lot of money lost!

 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

It is a claim I read on this forum ad naseum. What some Expat spends has no impact on the majority of people, nearly everyone, it is a drop in a large pond. Considering many Expats  pay no Thai taxes, no road taxes and no income tax, I have to often wonder if their nett benefit is negative. And Thailand is focused more on the big picture, like 7 million tourists who do go home.

    Paying no Thai taxes?  Unless an expat buys absolutely nothing he is paying Thai taxes living in Thailand.  He pays the 7% VAT.  He pays the petrol tax and the electricity tax. He pays a hefty auto tax when he purchases a vehicle.  Hefty liquor taxes.  Hotel taxes.  Last time I checked I am not exempt from paying tolls on the motorway and other roads that have tolls so expats are paying road taxes. 

    Every time I buy a condo I pay property taxes on the purchase.  So far I have paid these taxes on 22 condo purchases.  Every time I sell a condo I pay property taxes on the sale.  So far I have paid  these taxes on 20 condo sales.  Even just estimating low at 100,000 baht in condo taxes per condo (with my last condo sale it was 400,000 baht), that's over 4MB paid in property taxes.  Recently, expats who own condos in their name  or houses in company name have been marching themselves to City Hall to pay the  annual property tax.  

     I think it's clear the economic contributions of most expats into the Thai economy are by far a net benefit to Thailand.  No, of course we aren't as important as international tourists and Thailand's main focus is on them, and that's as it should be.  However, with international tourists numbers currently at zero, expats are making an important contribution locally in helping to keep businesses afloat.  Some places, it likely is, as you say, 'a drop in a large pond'.  But, in places like Pattaya, it's far more than a drop. 

[4reaL]

2 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Make sure that your Wife isnt left at home alone with the gardener 

Why it actually costs that much?

 

Where is Barrow when you need him most.....

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

And if you got on a plane tomorrow the only people who would miss your small input would be those you live with and perhaps support.

Re-read my post, it doesn't say ALL Expats. Tax on bank interest is 15/100x0.5/100 p.a. and I am surprised you found it worth mentioning, along with the other little buttons! You forgot property tax .

 

Comparing yourself to a Thai is a diversion, they were born here and are citizens and have a right of abode. As I said, a claim I read on this forum ad naseum.

You spend 50,000 a month for your own benefit not the Thai people's.

Anyhow, this morning I got the gardener coming, 1600 baht, and the bug sprayer, 1800 baht, (better examples for you). Must dash.

3400 baht for a gardener and bug sprayer? I could get the same done at my GF's house for 800 baht tops. They certainly saw you coming. On ignore now.

[CorpusChristie]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

3400 baht for a gardener and bug sprayer? I could get the same done at my GF's house for 800 baht tops. They certainly saw you coming. On ignore now.

Maybe his garden is four times the size of your ladys garden ?