25 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Don't ask me, but talk to the UK and the EU negotiators as they are the people who are dealing with it.

 

I am sorry if you believe that I have a secret contact at the negotiating table but I get my information from the MSM.

 

Who decides the criteria whether an agreement is fair? I have no idea and obvously you don't either. Both sides have their own teams and if one side doesn't agree what is fair they either thrash it out until they do agree, or they pack up and go home for further consultations.

 

Like you, me and millions of other people we will bw the last persons to know what is going on and we will have to accept it or moan about it (but still accept it).

 

Nobody on TVF knows what is happening and we have no input or control over the players, so IMO the best thing is to ignore it. It won't go away but if you ignore it your stress levels will be lower.

I'll agree that I doubt anyone on TVF is privy to inside information re the negotiations, and that most (all?) get their info via MSM. Equally, you may be right that ignoring matters might reduce stress levels, although I find that difficult.

 

However, you stated that: "What the UK wanted was a level playing field and honest discussion and fair agreements with the EU. Not much sign of that from the EU so far." I disagree (my opinion)  but was interested to know how you arrived at your opinion. Isn't that the point of this board i.e. to debate, and to challenge and be challenged by others?

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

We went into the transition phase. Essentially nothing changes until that ends.

One thing the economists did see was the huge drop in the value of the pound upon Brexit winning. Now that has come true has it not?

When we leave in January is when the rest will kick in. Signs are Remain was right. 

George managed to get just one of his prognosticators right. Even Nostradamus had a better hit rate than that. 

We haven’t had a Remainer reminder about the exchange rate for a while. That is however, probably only temporary and a price worth paying to Leave the EU. 

15 hours ago, Loiner said:

Remainers simply bought into it and kept regurgitating it, on and on and on... even to the present day. Leavers considered it carefully and compared it to their knowledge and experience of the EU over the past 40 years, but contrary to the attempted mass brainwashing still deciding it was and still is a cost worth paying to Leave the EU.

One day the majority will realise it was a mistake, the hardliners will continue with the garbage.

 

At home, one of the most important aspects of any democratic society is the right of individuals to go to court to challenge the government when the government has done something wrong, when it has breached the rights of individuals. Once you deprive individuals of the right to go to court to challenge the government, you’re in a dictatorship, you’re in a tyranny.’

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/brexit-legislation-could-put-judges-on-collision-course-with-government/5105916.article

How will the UK ever get any beneficial trade deals, answers on a postcard.

 

Liz Truss has been left red faced after accidentally promising to "undermine" UK farmers in US trade talks.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/2551792/watch-liz-truss-mocked-for-pledging-to-undermine-uk-farmers/

13 hours ago, billd766 said:

The referendum itself was badly written by David Cameron and his advisors and instead of a simple majority there should have been a minimum pass level of perhaps 60% or whatever figure seems apt.

In a nutshell. The fact that it was badly written should have been grounds for a second referendum on the Withdrawal Agreement, with people, including politicians, being much more aware of the potential consequences.

Many that voted to leave put their faith in the government to do the right thing, and that faith has been abused.

16 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Yep, Macron is probably petrified of being lynched by the French fishermen.  He's already got the yellow vests baying for his blood. 

Macron trying to save his own skin could well force a no deal. 

With Cummings at the helm, no deal was always on the agenda. The only question now is who the brexiteers will blame.

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

With Cummings at the helm, no deal was always on the agenda. The only question now is who the brexiteers will blame.

They will blame the EU. They have been lining that one up for some time.

 

Fortunately the government is only interested in hoodwinking brexiteers. Just tell them what they want to hear and they will believe.

 

Boris Cummings has no interest in being believed by remainers or the rest of the world.

There are only two possible outcomes that I can see.

Either Johnson remains true to his word and delivers a no deal Brexit.

Or Johnson capitulates and gives the EU what it wants.

 

This is what happens when you are the junior partner in any negotiations. The EU cannot give the UK a deal where it is better off than being a full member. If it did everyone would want the same thing. So no chance there.

However Johnson knows that no deal is basically not an option either. Despite all the bluff and bluster it would be an act of economic suicide. The EU knows that as well.

So what is going to happen is in the next couple of months Johnson is going to announce his great deal. A fantastic deal that gives us everything we want.

It will be Mays deal.

One thing that is for sure though. The deal will exempt the UK from any future EU legislation regarding the use of tax havens because that is, was and always will be what Brexit was about. Brexiteers think its about immigration but thats not going to change with Johnsons deal. It cant. Access to the single market and freedom of movement are conjoined in the eyes of the EU.

 

I'm stocking up on the popcorn. This should be a laugh a minute.   

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

With Cummings at the helm, no deal was always on the agenda. The only question now is who the brexiteers will blame.

We would blame the Remainers of course.

 

They blame us Leavers for everything else. ????

27 minutes ago, billd766 said:

We would blame the Remainers of course.

 

They blame us Leavers for everything else. ????

Like we ( the men in the street in Europe ) will blame the U.K. ( Remainers and Leavers) if Brexit would change anything in our daily life.

If negative of course.

If positive, we won't say a word.???? 

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

One day the majority will realise it was a mistake, the hardliners will continue with the garbage.

 

At home, one of the most important aspects of any democratic society is the right of individuals to go to court to challenge the government when the government has done something wrong, when it has breached the rights of individuals. Once you deprive individuals of the right to go to court to challenge the government, you’re in a dictatorship, you’re in a tyranny.’

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/brexit-legislation-could-put-judges-on-collision-course-with-government/5105916.article

I would really like this to go to court, can you just imagine Boris in the dock and the judge saying to him.

Judge. Mr Johnson you stand before me today charged with carrying out the wishes of the British electorate, how do you plead?

Boris. Guilty as charged ma lud.

Judge. Do you expect me to believe that any politician would do what the British people voted for.

Boris. Yes m'lud

Judge. And did you have any accomplices in this 'following the wishes of the British people.'

Boris. Yes m'lud, my mate Dom and the rest of the democratic side in parliament.

Judge. Dispicable, you wantonly enacted a democratic referendum for the British people when you almost certainly knew that the remainers would not like it. I have no option but to find you guilty, never in my time as a judge have I seen such a blatant display of democracy, 30 years, send him down.

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I would really like this to go to court, can you just imagine Boris in the dock and the judge saying to him.

Judge. Mr Johnson you stand before me today charged with carrying out the wishes of the British electorate, how do you plead?

Boris. Guilty as charged ma lud.

Judge. Do you expect me to believe that any politician would do what the British people voted for.

Boris. Yes m'lud

Judge. And did you have any accomplices in this 'following the wishes of the British people.'

Boris. Yes m'lud, my mate Dom and the rest of the democratic side in parliament.

Judge. Dispicable, you wantonly enacted a democratic referendum for the British people when you almost certainly knew that the remainers would not like it. I have no option but to find you guilty, never in my time as a judge have I seen such a blatant display of democrasy, 30 years, send him down.

how many delirium pills did you take this morning

14 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

how many delirium pills did you take this morning

Weeeeell, I think his post was aimed at something you, and a few others,  would understand.....????...A bit like..

 

 

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

In a nutshell. The fact that it was badly written should have been grounds for a second referendum on the Withdrawal Agreement, with people, including politicians, being much more aware of the potential consequences.

Many that voted to leave put their faith in the government to do the right thing, and that faith has been abused.

The question was essentially the same as in 1975 as it had to be. That bad decision was reversed. The right thing to do is to leave.

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

There are only two possible outcomes that I can see.

Either Johnson remains true to his word and delivers a no deal Brexit.

Or Johnson capitulates and gives the EU what it wants.

 

This is what happens when you are the junior partner in any negotiations. The EU cannot give the UK a deal where it is better off than being a full member. If it did everyone would want the same thing. So no chance there.

However Johnson knows that no deal is basically not an option either. Despite all the bluff and bluster it would be an act of economic suicide. The EU knows that as well.

So what is going to happen is in the next couple of months Johnson is going to announce his great deal. A fantastic deal that gives us everything we want.

It will be Mays deal.

One thing that is for sure though. The deal will exempt the UK from any future EU legislation regarding the use of tax havens because that is, was and always will be what Brexit was about. Brexiteers think its about immigration but thats not going to change with Johnsons deal. It cant. Access to the single market and freedom of movement are conjoined in the eyes of the EU.

 

I'm stocking up on the popcorn. This should be a laugh a minute.   

You still don't know the difference between the WA/PD and any final trade deal. 

42 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Like we ( the men in the street in Europe ) will blame the U.K. ( Remainers and Leavers) if Brexit would change anything in our daily life.

If negative of course.

If positive, we won't say a word.???? 

As Belgium is totally in control of its laws, affairs and pensions, even as a member of the EU, how could the UK leaving the EU possible worry you?  

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

As Belgium is totally in control of its laws, affairs and pensions, even as a member of the EU, how could the UK leaving the EU possible worry you?  

It doesn't so far.

But after reading the comments of some doom thinkers about what the future of the E.U. will be next year, I start to consider that it may be a possibility that there will be a negative impact on our daily life.

As already stated my approach of things is a rather pessimist/negative one.

If indeed the outcome prove to be negative, I am not surprised/ not unprepared.

If there is no negative outcome, I am a happy man.

 

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

It doesn't so far.

But after reading the comments of some doom thinkers about what the future of the E.U. will be next year, I start to consider that it may be a possibility that there will be a negative impact on our daily life.

As already stated my approach of things is a rather pessimist/negative one.

If indeed the outcome prove to be negative, I am not surprised/ not unprepared.

If there is no negative outcome, I am a happy man.

 

There will be negative effects for Belgium.  For example, Belgium exports a lot of potatoes to UK.  Additonal paperwork, even without will cost.  Unless the producers can increase the cost they charge to their UK cutsomers,then profits will fall.  If there are any delays at the Channel - which there will bem it is just a question of how long - then that is additional cost.

 

Of course, such costs in the other direction, since they make up a far greater proportion of the Country's GDP will be much,  much higher.

PH

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I would really like this to go to court, can you just imagine Boris in the dock and the judge saying to him.

Judge. Mr Johnson you stand before me today charged with carrying out the wishes of the British electorate, how do you plead?

Boris. Guilty as charged ma lud.

Judge. Do you expect me to believe that any politician would do what the British people voted for.

Boris. Yes m'lud

Judge. And did you have any accomplices in this 'following the wishes of the British people.'

Boris. Yes m'lud, my mate Dom and the rest of the democratic side in parliament.

Judge. Dispicable, you wantonly enacted a democratic referendum for the British people when you almost certainly knew that the remainers would not like it. I have no option but to find you guilty, never in my time as a judge have I seen such a blatant display of democracy, 30 years, send him down.

Come on, Vogie. Satire has to have an element of realism about it. Surely the first exchange would go something like:

 

Judge: PM, How do you plead?

Johnson: Err .. yes, Your Honour .... I will enter a 'world beating' plea... err.... As Homer said 'Light is the task where many share the toll' .. errr ... indeed ...err ... Carpe Diem .... err ... ooh err missus ....

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

You still don't know the difference between the WA/PD and any final trade deal. 

Brace yourself Nauseus.

Mays deal 2.0 heading your way soon.

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So what is going to happen is in the next couple of months Johnson is going to announce his great deal. A fantastic deal that gives us everything we want.

It will be Mays deal.

May's deal? Theresa May was negotiating the Withdrawal Agreement, not the FTA. Keep up ????

53 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Brace yourself Nauseus.

Mays deal 2.0 heading your way soon.

Ha ha. See what I mean?

9 hours ago, sandyf said:

One day the majority will realise it was a mistake, the hardliners will continue with the garbage.

 

At home, one of the most important aspects of any democratic society is the right of individuals to go to court to challenge the government when the government has done something wrong, when it has breached the rights of individuals. Once you deprive individuals of the right to go to court to challenge the government, you’re in a dictatorship, you’re in a tyranny.’

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/brexit-legislation-could-put-judges-on-collision-course-with-government/5105916.article

I don't think it will be shown to be a mistake, but given the EU negotiation antics, we will enjoy a new renaissance and the Remainers will be proved mistaken. 

 

What nonsense are you trying to twist from a legal comic now? What sort of tyrannical dictatorship gives the whole electorate a referendum? Once the majority result is being delivered to the country the individuals have lost it. Only in courts with corrupt judges could any individual challenge that his rights outweigh that of the majority. I suppose you would like to take that to Tony Blair's Supreme Court, where you could get the right for answer you?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1345450/Brexit-news-Michel-Barnier-UK-EU-trade-deal-fishing-concession-latest-update

 

Brexit breakthrough: Barnier to concede fishing demands – UK and EU on verge of trade deal

MICHEL BARNIER will today tell Lord Frost he is prepared to drop the EU's hardline fisheries despite facing an internal rebellion over the planned concession.

By Joe Barnes, Brussels Correspondent

https://www.ft.com/content/216ce063-5386-4561-9745-3d11f62b394f

 

Brussels looks to divvy up old UK fishing rights in Brexit deal

Effort to win round sceptical EU maritime nations on compromise over access to British waters

9 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1345450/Brexit-news-Michel-Barnier-UK-EU-trade-deal-fishing-concession-latest-update

 

Brexit breakthrough: Barnier to concede fishing demands – UK and EU on verge of trade deal

MICHEL BARNIER will today tell Lord Frost he is prepared to drop the EU's hardline fisheries despite facing an internal rebellion over the planned concession.

By Joe Barnes, Brussels Correspondent

Do you ever read the text that accompanies these ludicrous headlines???

19 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Do you ever read the text that accompanies these ludicrous headlines???

No, he didn't.

Quote from the article:

"European diplomatic sources say the bloc is now more willing to cave on fish in return for a more robust regulatory level playing field than was previously proposed by British negotiators." ????

(Would he be for once in his life  a man from his word ?…..Nah..., that is not " Boris-like "....    )

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/09/eu-does-not-believe-uk-will-walk-out-on-brexit-talks-diplomat-says

Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Fri 9 Oct 2020 13.13 BST

EU does not believe UK will walk out on Brexit talks, diplomat says

Boris Johnson has publicly suggested a Brussels summit next week is his deadline for a deal

 

 

Brussels does not believe Boris Johnson will walk out on the Brexit talks next week despite repeated threats from London, with negotiations set to continue deep into the month.

The prime minister has publicly suggested that an EU summit next Thursday is his deadline for a deal. He said in September that without agreement it would be time to “accept and move on”.

 

The UK’s chief negotiator, David Frost, reiterated the comments during a parliamentary hearing this week, but a senior EU diplomat said this was not Brussels’ understanding following private discussions.“I don’t detect any readiness on the British side to suspend the negotiations,” the source said. “This is going to continue. It is not a deadline.”

 

more...

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

You still don't know the difference between the WA/PD and any final trade deal. 

Mays deal was Brino remember?

Thats what Johnson is going to come up with.

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

May's deal? Theresa May was negotiating the Withdrawal Agreement, not the FTA. Keep up ????

You are not going to get a FTA unless you go back to Mays deal. Keep up.