Vaccines Not Looking Good...Only 30% Efficacy

[Pattaya Spotter]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Some of what I'm reading in the OP doesn't seem to match what I've been reading re the vaccine research efforts... Let me see what I have saved...

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3624430-key-u-s-covidminus-19-vaccine-trials-set-to-resume

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https://seekingalpha.com/news/3624369-fda-ad-com-tomorrow-on-development-authorization-of-covidminus-19-vaccines

Note the reference above to safety and efficacy for special populations such as kids and pregnant women...

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3622792-pfizer-may-apply-for-emergency-use-of-covidminus-19-vaccine-late-november-ceo-albert-bourla

All from Seeking Alpha...day trade much? (Maybe not the best source for SARS-CoV-2 virus information.) And all just re-peating PR press releases from the companies involved with vaccines to tout or Op. Warp Speed director, who has an agenda to push. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Quote

Moderna could have Covid-19 test results next month, EUA in December - CEO Bancel

Oct. 20, 2020 3:18 AM ET|About: Moderna, Inc. (MRNA)|By: Yoel Minkoff, SA News Editor

 

The U.S. could authorize emergency use of Moderna's (NASDAQ:MRNA) experimental COVID-19 vaccine in December, according to CEO Stéphane Bancel, if the company gets positive interim results in November from a large clinical trial.
 

The comments suggest Moderna's timetable isn't that far off from Pfizer's (NYSE:PFE), which said last week it expects to seek U.S. authorization of emergency use of its vaccine by late November.
 

Pfizer, which is working with Germany's BioNTech (NASDAQ:BNTX) has already manufactured "several hundred thousand doses" at its plant in Puurs, Belgium, according to the Daily Mail. The pharma giant hopes to make 100M doses available this year, a figure that will be dwarfed by the 1.3B the company aims to manufacture in 2021.

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3623490-moderna-covidminus-19-test-results-next-month-eua-in-december-ceo-bancel

 

-------------------------------

 

Quote

Pfizer and Moderna pivotal studies on COVID-19 vaccines near enrollment targets

Oct. 19, 2020 12:58 PM ET|About: Pfizer Inc. (PFE)|By: Douglas W. House, SA News Editor
 

COVID-19 vaccine developers Pfizer (PFE +0.6%)/BioNTech SE (BNTX +0.5%) and Moderna (MRNA -2.9%) are closing in on their respective enrollment objectives in their large-scale pivotal studies.
 

As of today, Pfizer/BioNTech's 44K-subject Phase 2/3 study evaluating BNT162b2 has enrolled 39,862 participants, 34,601 of which have received the second shot.
 

As of Friday, October 16, Moderna has enrolled 29,521 participants in its 30K-subject Phase 3 study of mRNA-1273, 24,496 of which have received the second jab.

 

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3623326-pfizer-and-moderna-pivotal-studies-on-covidminus-19-vaccines-near-enrollment-targets

 

PS -- It's not "virus" information.  But it is a good source for the news that's being reported directly by the various companies working on vaccines...  Obviously, not the same as medical journal content.

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sambotte]

So obvious.

How long will it takes (if ever) for people to understand there is no other way than to deal with virus, like human have done since EVER ! Our ADN is even made in part of viruses adn.

To hope for a miracle vaccine is unrealistic. This will go for years though. Like flu with mutations, new vaccine, rince and repeat.

To stop living to "save the medical" (still under funded/equiped), for the 0.05% old sick people or so, is crazy. Thanks to the media, and the brainwashing with just the number of "new cases" (much more rarely accurate data like hospitalisations, symptoms, etc.).

Lots of misery, depression, suicide, bankrupcy, hunger, etc. Datas can already show all this mess kills and weaken way more than the virus itself.

But primitive fear is always the main force in this world. And old people rule.

 

And by the way there is 60 Million deaths per year in the world.

Road accident, heart diseases, cancers, obesity, etc. Even DIARRHEA kills way more.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

Crazy world.

[sungod]

24 minutes ago, Chivas said:

No one has done more to help others in poorer countries than Bill Gates

$93 Billion of his own money dedicated to others. You people are absolute roasters claiming there is some spurious ludicrous conspiracy going on

 They also believe the earth is flat....

[edwardandtubs]

39 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It wouldn't surprise me if the BCG and Flu jabs prove just as effective.  They are both safe and proven.

 

The solution to covid19, imo, could be widescale infection with a lesser coronavirus: the sort that gives you a runny nose and little else.

These lesser coronaviruses are already widespread so that rules out your big idea.

[edwardandtubs]

25 minutes ago, Sambotte said:

So obvious.

How long will it takes (if ever) for people to understand there is no other way than to deal with virus, like human have done since EVER ! Our ADN is even made in part of viruses adn.

To hope for a miracle vaccine is unrealistic. This will go for years though. Like flu with mutations, new vaccine, rince and repeat.

To stop living to "save the medical" (still under funded/equiped), for the 0.05% old sick people or so, is crazy. Thanks to the media, and the brainwashing with just the number of "new cases" (much more rarely accurate data like hospitalisations, symptoms, etc.).

Lots of misery, depression, suicide, bankrupcy, hunger, etc. Datas can already show all this mess kills and weaken way more than the virus itself.

But primitive fear is always the main force in this world. And old people rule.

 

And by the way there is 60 Million deaths per year in the world.

Road accident, heart diseases, cancers, obesity, etc. Even DIARRHEA kills way more.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

Crazy world.

One day someone will count how many extra people died of heart disease and stroke as a result of these insane lock downs that caused people to reduce their exercise and gain weight.

[edwardandtubs]

32 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

All from Seeking Alpha...day trade much? (Maybe not the best source for SARS-CoV-2 virus information.) And all just re-peating PR press releases from the companies involved with vaccines to tout or Op. Warp Speed director, who has an agenda to push. 

Well of course the vaccine companies are the ones who know how effective their vaccines are because none of them have yet published the efficacy data. It's not perfect but it's a lot better than just pulling the 30% figure out of your <deleted>, which is what the author of the article you posted seems to have done.

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

Even with limited efficacy a vaccine will give some countries the political cover they need to open up travel. 

[3NUMBAS]

if they dont the only remaining optiion is self contained breathing helmets when you go outside..like sme HG wells sci fi ..the yanks are slow with the helmets

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

For the U.S. CV vaccine approval process -- the government supposedly is going to require at least 50% success rate in protecting against contracting the virus.

 

Quote

PHASE 3 EFFICACY TRIALS: Scientists give the vaccine to thousands of people and wait to see how many become infected, compared with volunteers who received a placebo. These trials can determine if the vaccine protects against the coronavirus. In June, the F.D.A. advised vaccine makers that they would want to see evidence that vaccines can protect at least 50 percent of those who receive it. In addition, Phase 3 trials are large enough to reveal evidence of relatively rare side effects that might be missed in earlier studies.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

[connda]

2 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Doshi said some vaccines [will] likely reduce the risk of COVID-19 infection by only 30%.

It's not about efficacy.  It's about revenue and profits.

[elliss]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Isn't that ZERO% efficiency?

      

     Minus zero , 

[tribalfusion001]

Whether they work or not, as long as there are no serious side effects they will be rolled out asap. Once the most needy are jabbed the testing will decrease and the amplification of the tests will also decrease, job done and back to normal. I'm sure covid-19 will still be around but just put down to pneumonia or flu.

 

This crazy world can't continue for much longer like this otherwise economies will be smashed for decades and also protests are becoming more common all over the place, those will need to be kept in check or not depending if you like them.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

57 minutes ago, Sambotte said:

And by the way there is 60 Million deaths per year in the world.

Road accident, heart diseases, cancers, obesity, etc. Even DIARRHEA kills way more.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

Crazy world.

 

 

This year, CV in the U.S. -- which hasn't taken virus prevention measures seriously overall -- will be the third leading cause of death behind only cancer and heart disease.  More than 220,000 deaths already in just over half a year, and likely heading to between 300K and almost 400K for the full year since the outbreak began.

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

 

 

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend

 

The U.S. CDC just recently estimated that the CV pandemic caused nearly 300,000 extra deaths in the United States through early October.

 

Quote

 

The new tally includes not only deaths known to have been directly caused by the coronavirus, but also roughly 100,000 fatalities that are indirectly related and would not have occurred if not for the virus.

The study, published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is an attempt to measure “excess deaths” — deaths from all causes that statistically exceed those normally occurring in a certain time period. The total included deaths from Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, that were misclassified or missed altogether.

Many experts believe this measure tracks the pandemic’s impact more accurately than official Covid-19 death reports do, and they warn that the death toll may continue an inexorable climb if policies are not put in effect to contain the spread.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/20/health/coronavirus-excess-deaths.html

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

26 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

For the U.S. CV vaccine approval process -- the government supposedly is going to require at least 50% success rate in protecting against contracting the virus.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

Yes that's what the FDA has said is their standard to green-light a vaccine...about the same efficacy as the annual influenza vaccine. Basically a coin toss if you get infected or not after getting the vaccine...doesn't sound that great to me.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[FarFlungFalang]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You don't want to kill anyone in the 'trials' stage.

Apparently a Brazilian  died in the trail but the BP article said the trial will continue.I put my faith in the placebo, that way I know what I'm getting and can be confident of the result.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Mark Nothing said:

If you think about the concept of "vaccine" logically it is ludicrous to take a perfectly healthy person and inject a foreign substance into the body in the name of health.  It simply sucks the vitality and life out of you while the body attempts to erradicate the toxins leaving your body in a depleted state.  

 

could you please demonstrate your claims

[elliss]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You don't want to kill anyone in the 'trials' stage.

 

 My i humbly request , that the vaccine be tested in overstayers ..

[elliss]

Just now, elliss said:

2 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

 My i humbly request , that the vaccine be tested on overstayers ..

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

Very misleading title. He's talking about the limitations of some of the trials, not the limitations of the vaccine. Pfizer is so confident of theirs they've already started producing hundreds of thousands of it. Considering it will only get approved if it is more than 50% effective, it's safe to say theirs is much better. Some estimates have it as high as 90%+.

I estimate that it will be 100% effective!If 2 more people estimate 100% effectiveness then there will be some estimates of 100% effectiveness but it will mean little as those estimating as high as 90% effectiveness probably work for or have vested interests in the vaccine or will benefit financially from it's distribution,remember vaccines are a business and governments use tax payer money to provide them free of charge but the company still gets huge profits and the ordinary people still pay for it.Of course Pfizer is confident it will make lots of money from deals already signed.That's my estimate.Virus is Pfizerling out so they will have to be quick and ramp up the testing and fear before the virus completely Pfizzles out.

Edited October 22, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

 They also believe the earth is flat....

I believe the world is round.....like a plate!If it was flat the water would run off it and there would be no oceans.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, Chivas said:

No one has done more to help others in poorer countries than Bill Gates

$93 Billion of his own money dedicated to others. You people are absolute roasters claiming there is some spurious ludicrous conspiracy going on

 

hmmm.    next time you have lunch with Billy ask him why he doesn't spend a measly billion or so to

completely irradicate Hepatitis C .       There is a very effective cure for that now....... just happens

to get no publicity and costs around 100k dollars in the US .     The same drug (licensed to be made in India)  costs around 1500 dollars for the one a day pill (  90 days).    about 99% effective

 

i would love to know his answer..... so get back to me on that    

[Sambotte]

55 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

This year, CV in the U.S. -- which hasn't taken virus prevention measures seriously overall -- will be the third leading cause of death behind only cancer and heart disease.  More than 220,000 deaths already in just over half a year, and likely heading to between 300K and almost 400K for the full year since the outbreak began.

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

 

 

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend

 

The U.S. CDC just recently estimated that the CV pandemic caused nearly 300,000 extra deaths in the United States through early October.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/20/health/coronavirus-excess-deaths.html

 

Brutes numbers again ? Ok :

We should not put 99% people in misery and lockdown (diverses freedom privation) for the benefit (a few more years to live with pre-existing conditions for most cases) of 1% !

[donnacha]

1 hour ago, Oliver Holzerfilled said:

Even with limited efficacy a vaccine will give some countries the political cover they need to open up travel. 

This is the key point you should all understand. Every government in the world is in panic mode because they now know that quarantining an entire population of people who are not only healthy but, also, at very little risk if they do get infected is an unprecedented act of idiocy. It is now clear that they should have focused their resources on shielding the vulnerable and allowed everyone else to continue working to pay for it. Unfortunately, because their priority is to get re-elected, they are unable to back down from this mistake until they have plausible excuse for doing do.

The primary job of the vaccines is not to be effective although, obviously, it would be nice if they were. By far the most important "job to be done" is to provide the governments with a plausible narrative that allows them to re-open their countries and return to normality without raising questions. We are going to see the vaccines become even more politicized, with government and media in every country attacking anyone who questions the narrative as anti-vaxxers, anti-science, and racist. So much is at stake. For the rest of this decade, dissent will not be tolerated and the tech giants are on notice that they must either play ball or get broken up.

The real story will be that the spread of the virus will be somewhat reduced, partly due to the vaccine slightly reducing the R number but mainly due to a refocus on better isolating the vulnerable. It will still kill plenty of older folks but the emphasis of reporting will change from infections to deaths, with a tighter definition that excludes "deaths with covid". A significant portion of the population will voluntarily continue to minimize their exposure to other people, many will continue to wear masks, and international mass tourism may never return to its previous highs. Tourism-dependent countries such as Thailand will compete for the smaller pool of potential visitors by dropping their current quarantine requirements and, even, many of their prev-Covid restrictions.

 

[onebir]

4 hours ago, donnacha said:

A significant portion of the population will voluntarily continue to minimize their exposure to other people,

This proportion may be pretty large. I've seen reports (here and via personal contacts) that suggest "long Covid" can be extremely nasty (comparable to Lyme disease). The real challenge governments face may not be how to impose continued social distancing, but persuading people it's time to stop.

[donnacha]

Just now, onebir said:

This proportion may be pretty large. I've seen reports (here and via personal contacts) that suggest "long Covid" can be extremely nasty (comparable to Lyme disease). The real challenge governments face may not be how to impose continued social distancing, but persuading people it's time to stop.

Yeah, I'm not yet quite sure how to interpret the long Covid reports. I do know that, in the first few months of the pandemic, the media made a point of highlighting the Covid deaths of younger people, deliberately creating the distorted impression that it was more dangerous to folks under 50 than it actually is. The statistics told a very different story. Their justification for that deliberate distortion was a worry that the young would simply not stick to the lockdown unless they believed it was a direct threat to them.

Now, as we head into a 2nd round of lockdowns, my worry is that the media are placing disproportionate emphasis on "long Covid" for the same reason,. I have no doubt that the reported cases are real and entirely awful for the folks suffering, but it seems to impossible to find any statistics that reveal the actual extent of the problem.

I certainly don't discount the possibility that "long Covid" could be a widespread legacy of Covid, and there are certainly some people in my own circles who say they are experiencing it, but until I have data I won't know whether the risk is sufficient to stop me getting on a plane.

 

[zombie nights]

"The Covid-19 vaccine developed at Oxford University works perfectly and builds strong immunity to the virus, a study shows. "

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, zombie nights said:

"The Covid-19 vaccine developed at Oxford University works perfectly and builds strong immunity to the virus, a study shows. "

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

Was there a Covid article...I got distracted by Maisie ????

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, zombie nights said:

"The Covid-19 vaccine developed at Oxford University works perfectly and builds strong immunity to the virus, a study shows. "

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

 

A study using cells in the laboratory found the vaccine effectively delivers the instructions for the Covid protein, which cells copy thousands of times to produce it in large amounts. 

 

A small scale laboratory study demonstrating an immune response is not the same as a Phase 3 trial showing widespread vaccine efficacy in a diverse large-scale human population. The article title is what's to be expected from a clickbait newsite like the Daily Mail.

[Jeffr2]

No worries.  Trump just said things are going great and we're rounding the corner on the virus.  The future is beautiful and we'll be back to normal very soon.