UK tells EU: back down by Sunday night or we'll walk

[vinny41]

48 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Thanks

 

Renault -Nissan was in pretty bad health before and the covid crisis is devastating.

 

I do not know what you make of it, but in my mind, covid will compound the effect of Brexit: many plants will close and then, the new supply chains will be re-designed without the UK.

 

 

British industry will not suddenly "crash down": while services can relocate very fast as we saw with fund management (Over £1 trillion of assets) but Brexit will hit UK industry, more like a 'slow puncture'.

 

.

I think its very diffcult to predict the future of the automotive industry anywhere at the moment there are competing forces that have 100% different view points.

You have the climate change groups that would like to see all cars banned yesterday. In the UK we did have the green party put forward a proposal to ban all cars in 2014 they changed their minds when it occurred to them they might not win many votes.

With potential bans on the sale of petrol/diesel cars  coming in as early as 2025 ( I can't see it happening myself)

I suspect with current car production when a model reaches end of life it may not be replaced

Looking into the future if a country doesn't have a battery gigafactory then they will not be producing cars in the future

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/northumberland-site-secured-uks-first-ev-battery-gigafactory

I do agree with you over a number of years car plants will close or reduce in size

problems for all automotive manufacturers is their plants tend to be huge so depending on location they will try to get a maximum return on their land investment if they are lucky and their land can be sold for housing development I suspect they will close the plants when vehicle has reached end of life

For Daimler they must have thought they won the lottery when  Grenadier started enquiring about the Smartville factory since they were faced with spending millions of euros to shut down the factory

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

The baßtards.

See the lengths they will go to. The EU just cannot afford to lose our trade. 

[ukrules]

Lots of chatter about a deal and something about to be said live on TV in about 20 minutes by Boris.

[GrandPapillon]

so Boris finally caved in, what a surprise ????

[Hi from France]

29 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

so Boris finally caved in, what a surprise ????

We do not know the results of these negotiations, there are 2000 pages and fish is more politically symbolic than the main issue. 

 

Now, the analysis is no just who wins/looses: The Brits traded a reduced access to the single market and no deal on services for more freedom. 

 

I suspect the real issue is what they can do with this freedom, wich came at a hefty price (unemployment, and - 2% or - 4% GDP in addition to the - 2% lost in anticipation of Brexit, so we are talking +-200/300 billions a year in lost GDP?).

 

For now the trade deals are mainly the same as before.. or there is no trade deal yet (USA, Mexico..). 

 

I guess the main issue is the future deal with the USA. Can a Brexiteer tell us what is expected at best?

 

... Aside from fuzzy sunlit uplands, can you give us actual measurable data of what is expected from a deal with the USA and how it will make up for what we can put a figure on = the price of freedom from "EU shackles" ? 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Hi from France

[CG1 Blue]

8 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

so Boris finally caved in, what a surprise ????

Do you have some evidence of this? Or as Queen said: 'is this just fantasy' ?

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

so Boris finally caved in, what a surprise ????

There still no agreement for all you know the EU has caved in

[oldhippy]

3 hours ago, Surelynot said:

The baßtards.

I wonder what corpuschristie thinks about this.... as I never understood his opinion on UNICEF aid to UK kids / to African kids.

Maybe corpuschristie can clarify?

[Hi from France]

31 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

There still no agreement for all you know the EU has caved in

... And overall, the deal is balanced considering all factors (bigger EU market, UK's objective not to answer to the ECJ..). 

 

No the question is not "who won"? , but "was it worth it"?.. But we probably have no objectiviable promises from Brexiteers beside "saving polar bears" and the like. 

 

For the present deal, we know  the "oven ready" and "we hold all the cards" so we can judge on this, but the 1-10 years future is the issue. 

 

Will the UK be poorer or wealthier, will it be able to have world-sized ambitions beyond being an "independent coastal state" and turn out to be a major player in international issues? Or will the Union go in pieces with Scotland and NI leaving the United Kingdom to become a member of the European Union instead? 

 

. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Hi from France

[IvorBiggun2]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Johnson said ‘we’ll walk on Sunday evening’ 

Another Remainer mis-interpretation of what was really said and by whom. Always Boris's fault hey?

Quote

Quote

Prime Minister Boris Johnson and the European Union’s chief executive gave themselves until the end of the weekend to seal a new trade pact after failing to overcome persistent rifts over a “lively” dinner of turbot on Wednesday.

 

 

[Tofer]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ve got rights and quotas mixed up.

How so?

 

The overall access was dictated by the EU CFP, which is what they are trying to negotiate now. The quotas were sold to individual companies / boats amongst the different member states, subsequent to that ruling.

[Laughing Gravy]

5 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

so Boris finally caved in, what a surprise ????

No matter what happened you will get remainers and foreigners saying Boris caved in. They are only happy with the UK giving everything to the EU. I call them traitors not patriots.

 

I have always wanted to walk away with no deal. But if we are not in the ECJ, are not tied to the CU and SM, I will cope. If we are the UK will only become more distant from the EU and until another PM with more clout and change the deal in the future.

 

For remainers, I would take what is on offer as a win. The UK will never again be in the EU and if it is too closely aligned, at some point the deal will change further away in my opinion.

 

As I have always believed there would be a deal and if it proves to be right all the screaming and foot stamping by so many posters just highlights how out of touch they are.

[Laughing Gravy]

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

But we probably have no objectiviable promises from Brexiteers beside "saving polar bears" and the like. 

Who is we. You have more disguises that inspector Clueso. Isn't it about time you were honest with the board and yourself. Your British and a bitter remainer trying to masquerade as something else fooling. errm nobody.

 

Be honest for once and even Father Christmas might cross you off the very naughty list.????

[Hi from France]

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Your British and a bitter remainer trying to masquerade as something else fooling.

my English is good enough to fool you ???? 

 

(now, Boris Johnson is good enough to fool you so maybe you are not really that sagacious in the first place)

 

.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Hi from France

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

No matter what happened you will get remainers and foreigners saying Boris caved in. They are only happy with the UK giving everything to the EU. I call them traitors not patriots.

 

I have always wanted to walk away with no deal. But if we are not in the ECJ, are not tied to the CU and SM, I will cope. If we are the UK will only become more distant from the EU and until another PM with more clout and change the deal in the future.

 

For remainers, I would take what is on offer as a win. The UK will never again be in the EU and if it is too closely aligned, at some point the deal will change further away in my opinion.

 

As I have always believed there would be a deal and if it proves to be right all the screaming and foot stamping by so many posters just highlights how out of touch they are.

You’ve been posting your wish for a no deal Brexit.

 

If there is any kind of a deal, then you didn’t get what you wanted.

 

If there is a deal, then why ever wouldn’t people want to examine it an comment on its terms and conditions.

 

Your attempt to preemptively invalidate discussion and comments is noted.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, Loiner said:

See the lengths they will go to. The EU just cannot afford to lose our trade. 

You mean the UK needs the food being airlifted.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You mean the UK needs the food being airlifted.

Are you suggesting the EU is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

May I refer you to the politically motivated border closures. If the EU does something related to Britain, it is to the benefit of the EU. We've seen that for many years. It's why we left in the first place and it hasn't improved since.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Are you suggesting the EU is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts?

 

May I refer you to the politically motivated border closures. If the EU does something related to Britain, it is to the benefit of the EU. We've seen that for many years. It's why we left in the first place and it hasn't improved since.

OK go without the food, that’ show them.

[JonnyF]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ve been posting your wish for a no deal Brexit.

 

If there is any kind of a deal, then you didn’t get what you wanted.

 

If there is a deal, then why ever wouldn’t people want to examine it an comment on its terms and conditions.

 

Your attempt to preemptively invalidate discussion and comments is noted.

 

 

 

Well according to Remainers, Boris has folded.

 

Why would we need to examine it when they've already clearly read it and reached their conclusions? Quite impressive to read a 2000 page document in under 5 hours when it hasn't even been released yet, but then when did Remainers let facts get in the way of slating the Leave campaign?

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

OK go without the food, that’ show them.

 

We'll chuck them a bit of business if they're that desperate. We don't want to sink to their levels of pettiness and vindictiveness.????

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Well according to Remainers, Boris has folded.

 

Why would we need to examine it when they've already clearly read it and reached their conclusions? Quite impressive to read a 2000 page document in under 5 hours when it hasn't even been released yet, but then when did Remainers let facts get in the way of slating the Leave campaign?

A lot of assumption questions fired at me on the basis of your claim that ‘According to Remainers, Boris has folded’.

 

I’ve made no such claim which negates all your assumption based questions.

 

If you ask me do I expect Johnson to sell out Brexiteers, well it would not surprise me in the least.

 

That’s an opinion based on his track record of lies, U-turns and self serving duplicity. 

 

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A lot of assumption questions fired at me on the basis of your claim that ‘According to Remainers, Boris has folded’.

 

I’ve made no such claim which negates all your assumption based questions.

 

If you ask me do I expect Johnson to sell out Brexiteers, well it would not surprise me in the least.

 

That’s an opinion based on his track record of lies, U-turns and self serving duplicity. 

 

I wasn't aware you were representative of all Remainers. 

 

I'm sure you've seen the claims on this forum. Yesterday it was claimed he'd folded based on an inaccurate Guardian article. Oh how they laughed ????. When that article was subsequently debunked by the EU themselves, they claimed it was Boris who had misled them with 'smoke and mirrors'. ????

 

So excuse me if I don't take their claims too seriously.

[placeholder]

42 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

We'll chuck them a bit of business if they're that desperate. We don't want to sink to their levels of pettiness and vindictiveness.????

Makes sense. After all, the UK economy is about 1/5 the size of the EU's.

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Same here......watched the World Cup in a bar in Germany!!

Saw my first colour TV in a bar in Germany in 69, Rawhide was on, bit weird seeing cowboys talking German.

I drove over with a mate that time in my Mk1 Cortina, had to get an IDP and a green card for the insurance, border crossings everywhere and a glove compartment with different currencies.

Good old days before the EC.

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

Lots of chatter about a deal and something about to be said live on TV in about 20 minutes by Boris.

A deal, and a bad one, has always been an absolute certainty, a deal on an FTA or a deal on contingency measures.

I suspect the negotiators couldn't face starting over on the latter.

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I said "fish and chips" was a diversion.

And you would be wrong again, obviously went over your head.

[transam]

13 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because of course my posts are replete with bigotry. 

 

I’m always at the forefront, ranting about immigrants, asylum seekers, Muslims,  feminists, environmentalists, beggars/the homeless, people on welfare, the poor, any kind of addict, Greta, Hillary, Angela ( women in general) any and all of the spleen venting that goes on, you’ll find my posts full of it .... well no you won’t.

 

Your posts on the other-hand!

Now who is telling lies.....Tut, tut....????

But, your post is a break through for readers as to your true colours..Well done..

[Hi from France]

right now they are reading over the 2000 pages...

 

 

 

A detailed article on how it happened https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/23/eu-countries-prepare-for-possible-imminent-brexit-deal

 

 

 

no matter whether this is true of not, leaking this this was not very clever (except if that was on purpose because they wanted the negotiation to crash)

Quote

The path towards agreement had not been helped in the final hours by claims from anonymous French officials that the UK had made “major concessions” on key issues around access for European fleets in British fishing waters in the final 48 hours – one of the major sticking points in the final two weeks of talks in Brussels.

 

UK sources dismissed the claims from Paris but Downing Street faced immediate threats from the European Research Group (ERG) of Tory Brexiter backbenchers.

now apparently there is a six-year transition period for phasing in a 25% reduction in the catch by the European fleets, with access guaranteed to a six to 12 nautical mile zone from the British coastline.

 

The zone close to the British coastline might be more important than the % since this is were the smaller boats go and I do not like the factory ships.

 

the article gives more details about teh phase-in period, the arbitration panel and most importantly the termination clause in case the UK starts reneging again.

 

 

 

now...

 

 

for me I'm not jumping for joy at all

 

I'm very very wary about what the UK might have obtained in exchange for the right for these additional fish quotas (furthermore, they are valid for a limited time). If they got an easing of rules of origin for electric cars, the EU will have lost much more

 

 

 

[Jillie Norman]

Everything indeed is getting tiresome. Can't we just celebrate Christmas? Oh wait, we can't.