U.S. Senate blocks constitutional challenge to Trump impeachment trial

[webfact]

U.S. Senate blocks constitutional challenge to Trump impeachment trial

By David Morgan

 

U.S. Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) is trailed by reporters as he arrives to be sworn in for the impeachment trial of former president Donald Trump in the U.S. Capitol in Washington, U.S. January 26, 2021. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate voted 55-45 on Tuesday to block a Republican effort to upend plans for former President Donald Trump's impeachment trial on a charge that he incited the deadly Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol.

 

In an early test of the Senate's impeachment drive, five Republicans joined Democrats to reject a motion by Republican Senator Rand Paul that would have required the chamber to vote on whether the trial violates the U.S. Constitution.

 

Paul and other Republicans contend that the proceedings are unconstitutional because Trump left office last Wednesday and the trial will be overseen by Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy instead of U.S. Chief Justice John Roberts.

 

"This proceeding, which would try a private citizen and not a president, vice president or civil officer, violates the Constitution," Paul told his fellow senators after they had been sworn in as jurors for the trial set to begin on Feb. 9.

 

Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer dismissed Paul's argument as "flat-out wrong" and "a constitutional get-out-of-jail-free card" for presidents guilty of misconduct.

 

Most of the Senate's 50 Republican lawmakers voted against a motion by Schumer to kill Paul's proposal.

 

Paul had predicted that support for his move would show the Senate incapable of convicting Trump, which would require 67 votes. But some Republicans described Tuesday's vote and the question of Trump's guilt as separate matters.

 

There is a debate among scholars over whether the Senate can hold a trial for Trump now that he has left office. Many experts have said "late impeachment" is constitutional, arguing that presidents who engage in misconduct late in their terms should not be immune from the very process set out in the Constitution for holding them accountable.

 

The Constitution makes clear that impeachment proceedings can result in disqualification from holding office in the future, so there is still an active issue for the Senate to resolve, those scholars have said.

 

'MATTER OF POLITICAL CONSEQUENCE'

Fellow Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski, who has been critical of Trump, rejected Paul's move.

 

"My review of it has led me to conclude that it is constitutional, in recognizing that impeachment is not solely about removing a president, it is also a matter of political consequence," Murkowski told reporters on Tuesday.

 

Murkowski joined fellow Republican Senators Mitt Romney, Susan Collins, Ben Sasse and Patrick Toomey in opposing Paul.

 

Trump is the only president to have been impeached by the House of Representatives twice and the first to face a trial after leaving power, with the possibility of being disqualified from future public office if convicted by two-thirds of the Senate.

 

The House approved a single article of impeachment - the equivalent of an indictment in a criminal trial - on Jan. 13, accusing him of inciting an insurrection with an incendiary speech to supporters before they stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6. A police officer and four others died in the melee.

 

At least 17 Republicans would need to join all 50 Democrats in the evenly divided Senate for Trump to be convicted, a two-thirds threshold that appears unlikely to be reached. Trump remains a powerful force among Republicans and his supporters have vowed to mount election challenges to lawmakers in the party who support conviction.

 

Some Republicans have criticized Trump's false claims of voting fraud and his failed efforts to overturn President Joe Biden's Nov. 3 election victory. But no Senate Republicans have said definitively that they plan to vote to convict him.

 

Although the Constitution calls on the chief justice to preside over presidential impeachment trials, a senator presides when the impeached is not the current president, a Senate source said. First elected to the chamber in 1974, Leahy, 80, is the most senior Democrat in the chamber and holds the title of Senate president pro tempore.

 

The nine House Democrats who will serve as prosecutors set the trial in motion on Monday by delivering the article of impeachment to the Senate.

 

(Reporting by David Morgan; Additional reporting by Jan Wolfe in Boston; Editing by Scott Malone, Alistair Bell and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-27

 

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[onebir]

20 minutes ago, webfact said:

Paul and other Republicans contend that the proceedings are unconstitutional because Trump left office last Wednesday and the trial will be overseen by Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy instead of U.S. Chief Justice John Roberts.

 

"This proceeding, which would try a private citizen and not a president, vice president or civil officer, violates the Constitution," Paul told his fellow senators after they had been sworn in as jurors for the trial set to begin on Feb. 9.

Can't believe they honestly thought they had a chance with this 'argument': if impeachment's only supposed to be applied to an incumbent, why was disbarment from public office for life made one of the penalties?

[Lacessit]

Five Republicans that are not jellyfish in the face of Trump's bullying. Doesn't say much for the future of the GOP.

[sirineou]

Rand Paul is a Looney tunes Republican  who is so far right , one more step and he might fall of the edge of the flat earth. 

[RichardColeman]

50 minutes ago, webfact said:

with the possibility of being disqualified from future public office if convicted by two-thirds of the Senate.

Waste of time , effort and money if they cannot get 2/3rds - and it looks like they wont.

[Tug]

2 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Waste of time , effort and money if they cannot get 2/3rds - and it looks like they wont.

Oh no you are mistaken imo it will get every one of those spineless cowards on record not condemning an attempted coup and all of trumps false election lies full exposure for what they are

[onebir]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Five Republicans that are not jellyfish in the face of Trump's bullying. Doesn't say much for the future of the GOP.

If another 12 or so got together and agreed to convict (if that's the right word) they'd get Trump disbarred from office and have have nothing to fear from him.

 

Maybe they're scared of the 'Trump constituency', rather than Trump himself?

 

 

[sirineou]

they should just let trump divide and destroy the know Nothings, formerly known as the republican party. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by sirineou

[SunnyinBangrak]

1 hour ago, onebir said:

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

 

If another 12 or so got together and agreed to convict (if that's the right word) they'd get Trump disbarred from office and have have nothing to fear from him.

 

Maybe they're scared of the 'Trump constituency', rather than Trump himself?

It is possible if trump is barred from ever holding office that don jr or one of his minions like mark dice could run with trumps backing. After martyring trump his popularity could increase even more. That might be even worse

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Waste of time , effort and money if they cannot get 2/3rds - and it looks like they wont.

Sadly.  I agree this is a tough impeachment.  But, Trump did incite the riot, did commit sedition with voter fraud, etc.   A message needs to be sent that this is not acceptable. 

 

A few members of congress need to pay the price also.  Luckily, some already are.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Oh no you are mistaken imo it will get every one of those spineless cowards on record not condemning an attempted coup and all of trumps false election lies full exposure for what they are

 

Demonstrates how trump thoroughly corrupted the US political decision making processes with Repubs refusing to act according to their Oath of Office. Hopefully a number will lose their seats in mid term elections. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by simple1

[TKDfella]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Waste of time , effort and money if they cannot get 2/3rds - and it looks like they wont.

Yes, I read on MSN this morning the inference was that the 55-45 vote indicated that a ²/₃ majority for conviction was unlikely. Whether that inference is right we'll have to wait and see.

[J Town]

48 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sadly.  I agree this is a tough impeachment.  But, Trump did incite the riot, did commit sedition with voter fraud, etc.   A message needs to be sent that this is not acceptable. 

 

A few members of congress need to pay the price also.  Luckily, some already are.

I bet there are more than a few amongst the GOP who aren't sleeping well. 45 is the death knell of the Republican party. What I find amusing is they are stabbing themselves with the very tool they wrought.

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Waste of time , effort and money if they cannot get 2/3rds - and it looks like they wont.

Well we wont know until the vote. But what it does do is put the repubs on the spot to vote.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Waste of time , effort and money if they cannot get 2/3rds - and it looks like they wont.

How so?

 

Prosecutors are moving to bring sedition charges against the rightwing terrorists Trump and a handful of Republicans incited to attack the Capitol in his attempted coup.

 

This isn’t going to get any better for the GOP.

 

The Senate Trial might not convict Trump, but it will record the support for Trump of every Republican Senator, who will then have to defend their position as the sedition trials progress.

 

Added to which, Trump’s threat to the GOP of starting a new political party.

 

Republican Senators have a growing number of reasons to convict Trump and ban him from public office for life. 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

It is possible if trump is barred from ever holding office that don jr or one of his minions like mark dice could run with trumps backing. After martyring trump his popularity could increase even more. That might be even worse

74 million voted for Trump. But of that number, how many are the rusted-on so-called patriots who were participating in the insurrection? It's very probable a lot of Republicans voted for him while holding their noses. Now, they are in shock seeing the outcome.

As another poster has said, the Senate votes are going to identify who in the GOP still have principles, and who are so corrupted they give a nudge-nudge and wink to sedition.

With Trump causing so many COVID deaths in America by his inaction and obfuscation, portraying himself as a martyr would be a tough sell, even for him.

[mtls2005]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

reject a motion by Republican Senator Rand Paul

 

The only person in the chamber who won't wear a mask.

 

Come on Kentucky, do better.

 

 

[Psimbo]

The Republicans are clearly more concerned about their own political future and keeping their snouts in the trough than censuring a man responsible for at least 5 deaths on Capitol Hill, including 2 law enforcement officers (one killed, one suicide).

 

Graham and McConnell are bottom feeding hypocrites- clear examples of why there should be term limits for Senators. Trump incited insurrection and needs to be  punished. 

[klauskunkel]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

"This proceeding, which would try a private citizen and not a president, vice president or civil officer, violates the Constitution," Paul told his fellow senators

A private citizen? I'm a private citizen, too. Can I therefore also have a contingent of Secret Service officers to protect me and my family from... something? Paid by my taxes of course.

[Berkshire]

The Dems are already discussing a censure resolution or invoking the 14th amendment.  The latter would bar Trump from holding future office.  Both only need 60 votes. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senators-discussing-trump-censure-resolution/ar-BB1d7nOH

 

[J Town]

19 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

The Dems are already discussing a censure resolution or invoking the 14th amendment.  The latter would bar Trump from holding future office.  Both only need 60 votes. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senators-discussing-trump-censure-resolution/ar-BB1d7nOH

 

Part of me wants 45 to run as the head of a new Patriot Party. That would put the GOP six feet under, pushing up daisies.

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Well we wont know until the vote. But what it does do is put the repubs on the spot to vote.

 

Exactly! It's going to be interesting to see who votes which way. I think some senior republicans will vote to get rid of him, but those in areas with a Trump following are probably going to be looking at re-election.

 

The really interesting thing is watching what happens to donors/super PAC funds. A lot of corporations have said they won't support anyone who supported the riots/fake election results.

 

This might sway a lot of republicans as politicians are quite like prostitutes in this regard - they'll do what you want for the right price.

[Berkshire]

4 minutes ago, J Town said:

Part of me wants 45 to run as the head of a new Patriot Party. That would put the GOP six feet under, pushing up daisies.

Yes, I do hope Trump starts up a third party.  As for the impeachment, I almost don't care whether he is convicted or not.  Trump is clearly guilty...same as when he was impeached the first time.  But allowing Trump to represent the GOP in 2024 is probably not a good long term plan for their party.  Trump can't help the Republicans.  He can't/won't unify the party unless it's to unify them around him.  He can certainly help a Republican candidate in a primary, but can't help them in a general election.  The dude is toxic.  The GOP leadership rightly wants Trump gone but aren't sure how to do it.  Serves them right for enabling Trump all these years.  Som num na.     

[johnnybangkok]

27 minutes ago, J Town said:

Part of me wants 45 to run as the head of a new Patriot Party. That would put the GOP six feet under, pushing up daisies.

Yeah I'm in 2 minds about this as well.

A new 'Patriot Party' would certainly split the vote and make the GOP obsolete for many years and by itself, Trumps own party would never gain enough support to again trouble the nation with him being POTUS.

On the other hand, he is as guilty as sin and should be punished for not only the Capitol riots but a (very bad) attempt at a coup.

Either way though, it's going to be a tough sqirm for all those Republicans who shirk their consitutional responsibility in favour of saving their own skin.  

[J Town]

10 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Yeah I'm in 2 minds about this as well.

A new 'Patriot Party' would certainly split the vote and make the GOP obsolete for many years and by itself, Trumps own party would never gain enough support to again trouble the nation with him being POTUS.

On the other hand, he is as guilty as sin and should be punished for not only the Capitol riots but a (very bad) attempt at a coup.

Either way though, it's going to be a tough squirm for all those Republicans who shirk their constitutional responsibility in favour of saving their own skin.  

I find consolation knowing the Southern District of New York has 45's marbles in a vice and is already starting to squeeze.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by J Town

[Elkski]

They must start impeachment.  I mean the majority of the World saw the crime being committed.  How many if us knew something was going to happen days before Jan 6?   It's a easy case to see the facts and the law.   Will senators do things by the law or their politics?

[pmarlin]

The real story is that 45 senators voted for this measure which means Trump will not be convicted with they have the trail.  Sorry trump haters just another waste of money and time. Trumps wins again and this will make him more popular. 

[Virt]

There's no chance it will go through now, but if Biden manages to do a good job in the next 4 years, Trump shouldn't be an issue. 

 

If the Democrats still want to ruin his chance to run in 4 years they still have 1 shot left, but that option most likely has to go through Supreme Court and we all know how that ends. 

 

Off course it's not over before the fat lady sings, but I don't think we'll see Trump in jail or having his chance removed to run in 4 years. 

 

What is most worrying is that Trump will most likely showcase this as a huge victory. 

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, pmarlin said:

The real story is that 45 senators voted for this measure which means Trump will not be convicted with they have the trail.  Sorry trump haters just another waste of money and time. Trumps wins again and this will make him more popular. 

I am sure that you are shocked by the events at Capitol Hill which caused 5 lives. As decent people, don't you want accountability of Trump who riled up the supporters and instigated the insurrection. Certainly you want the rule of law to be upheld by all including the former President. This vote does not bind lawmakers when the trial gets into full swing. A senior GPD lawmaker has already stated that. Votes may still change when more compelling evidences are presented and may have influence on the final vote. For the sake of accountability, I hope the GOPs will do the right thing although I have lost faith in them long time ago. 

[onthedarkside]

Several snarky off-topic posts have been removed.

 

Please try to stay on-topic and civil.