Would you ever seriously think about moving to Cambodia or Laos?

[WineOh]

let's have a bit of a think.

When the foreigner first started visiting the shores of Thailand en masse in the late 60's/early 70's, what was it actaully like back then?

I bet it was rustic, rough and raring to go.

I bet the healthcare system was poor at best, the girls were dirt cheap and so was the beer.

I bet the beaches were clean and quiet, there were few if any tourists and the hotels were also very affordable. 

I bet it was easy peasy to get a visa and stay long term.

I bet it was easy to buy your own house and the land that it was sat on.

I bet the people were friendly and genuinely helpful.

 

I'm willing the bet that this was how Thailand was back in the VN war days, before bureaucracy took hold..

I'm sure it used to be a free society, where anything went and people were generally happy.

Sadly these days it's just not the case.

However, everything I have listed seems to be still on offer in Cambodia.

Cambodia now seems reminiscent of Thailand in the 70's.

So my question is, would you ever seriously consider moving to Cambodia and to a lesser extent, Laos?

As Laos is a communist society I know that may not be to everyone's taste but I personally don't mind...

 

Cambodia will be the new frontier post covid, they will become what Thailand was 40/50 years ago.

they have everything that Thailand has just cheaper.

 

What would it take for you to make the move over the border? 

 

 

[BritManToo]

I'd move to Cambodia if my kids weren't Thai.

It's a great place, beer is 50c a glass, cocktails $1, and loads of really good Indian restaurants @ $5/meal. Cannabis also very easy to access at $10/bag.

I like Siam Reap and Phnom Penh, would have no problem living in either city.

Easy retirement VISA as well at $300/year for the over 50s with minimal paperwork.

 

Laos no, no local women allowed in your room, and the secret police follow you around to check.

Edited March 24, 2021 by BritManToo

[Saltire]

I lived in Siem Reap for almost 6 years, moving here to be with my Thai wife about 4 years ago.

 

I love it in both places, the main difference is I was single in SR and married here.

 

Should things go sour here my Plan B is back to Cambodia, it's a no-brainer.

 

Especially post Covid, my old apartment in SR is now $100 a month whereas I was paying $250 before. The only thing I recall that was more expensive than here was electricity.

 

Wouldn't want to have to visit a Cambodian hospital though.

 

 

 

 

[CharlieH]

If I have a choice I will remain here, if the shifting sands of immigration/Insurance etc drift too far then yes Cambodia would be my plan B.

[WineOh]

40 minutes ago, Saltire said:

 

Wouldn't want to have to visit a Cambodian hospital though

Nor would I.

Saying that though, surely Phnom Penh has at least 1 decent hospital... Surely???, no? 

[brewsterbudgen]

I think about it a lot.  My wife is Lao and we've built a house in her village 20km from Pakse in Southern Laos.  Our 6-year-old kid loves it there!  But... the infrastructure is rubbish, there are no decent international schools (in the south), no job opportunities, drug and alcohol addiction are rampant, and the cost of living is higher than Thailand.  So, it's not a serious consideration.

[madmen]

No and most definitely NO 

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, WineOh said:

Saying that though, surely Phnom Penh has at least 1 decent hospital... Surely???, no? 

Bangkok Hospital has one in PNH

Standards up to Thai branches - unknown

https://royalphnompenhhospital.com/

[bermondburi]

Laos no, too far to any beaches, and closes too early.

 

Cambodia a better option but still a no. Yes there's cheap beer and dope, but there's more to life than that.

 

Thailand is a lot more developed with its infrastructure and I like that.

 

Neither country has the variety of locations and landscape that Thailand offers. And neither country is as well connected internationally as Thailand.

 

Both good for an extended stay but that's about it for me.

[Pilotman]

no

[simon43]

After returning to Thailand, after working in Myanmar for about 5 years, I found the Thailand that I remembered when I first moved there in 2002, had changed too much for me to consider living there in my retirement.  I therefore relocated to live in Luang Prabang, a town where I briefly worked as the Headmaster of the international school, about 8 years ago.

 

The fact that it is a communist country actually seemed a bonus.  Here is a town where the kids go out and pick up litter from the streets each week, and the local adults do the same.  Unlike Thailand, the various authorities (police, immigration etc) don't have the slightest interest in sticking themselves into my life.  I don't have to do 90-day reports, nor inform anyone of my whereabouts and trips, nor even visit an immigration office to get my annual business visa, work permit and ID card.

 

(I guess things would be different if I were a Hmong activist etc, but without the slightest interest in politics or religion, I enjoy living here).  Sure, Laos is completely under the thumb of China, but again, none of this affects me in a negative way.

 

I'm not a sex monger, but 'compony' is readily available if one is discrete.  Don't sh*t in your own house of course, so use a hotel (I've done this many times).  Secret police?  Look, I have more radio transmitters and strange antennas than Goonhilly Down, but the police and authorities never bother me - well I've never had a visit so far ????

 

The food is excellent, with daily French baguettes, Lao coffee and local dishes.

 

Some people tell me that living in Laos is expensive.  I rent an old Lao house - 3 bedrooms,  just 100 metres from the Mekong river.  It has a beautiful garden and I pay under 11,000 baht a month, plus 100 baht for water and about 3,000 baht for electricity.  I find food cheap!

 

Crime?  Nothing affects me.  No pilfering or anything.  I learnt many years ago that security fences/cameras/dogs etc attract criminals.  All I have are the rusty metal bars on my windows.  Besides, I have little to steal.

 

My local bank account (with a Franco-Belgian bank) gives me 6 - 8% annual interest...

 

I guess the only downside are the lack of decent health/hospital facilities.  It's important to have expat/medivac insurance and to stay healthy!!

 

Forgot to add that my online teaching job needs fast internet.  I have 50 MB/sec fibre connections into my house from both LaoTel and Unitel, plus 4G mobile data as a backup.  I rarely have a connection problem.

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by simon43

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, simon43 said:

The food is excellent, with daily French baguettes, Lao coffee and local dishes.

Having spent a lot of time in France, and a bit of time in Laos, got to say the French bread is much better in France than in Laos. Didn't like the Laos bread that much, too chewy.

 

As far as I can tell Thailand in 2009 and Thailand in 2021 is exactly the same for me, it's not more expensive, my mortgage repayments are less now than they were then, petrol is 20% cheaper. I actually don't miss the tourists at all.

 

I do like Cambodia, The Philippines and Vietnam, and would be happy to live in either country, but not Laos, too much like rural Issan which bores me.

Edited March 24, 2021 by BritManToo

[simon43]

[quote]

I do like Cambodia, The Philippines and Vietnam, and would be happy to live in either country, but not Laos, too much like rural Issan which bores me.

[/quote]

 

I have to say that if I couldn't live in UNESCO-protected Luang Prabang, then I probably wouldn't want to live in Laos.  As you mention, many (most?) regions are like rural Issan.  As for Vientiane, it is just a small and busy city, changed very much from when I first went cycling round the 'Arc de Triomph' in the early 80's.  I don't like it at all.

 

Luang Prabang is of course quiet, especially without tourists now.  But for me, the beauty of the river and temples and simple life keeps me happy.  BTW, there are many Chinese and Vietnamese 'ladies' on the edge of town, so no need to break the law with a local woman.

 

After Covid-19 restrictions end, and the new railway line from China opens, there will probably be many more tourists from China, which IMHO is a good thing for the local economy. But the Lao authorities are very much aware of the importance of their UNESCO status, and impose regulations on those who enter the old town (such as no smoking in the street).  For me, I can't see any negative changes on the horizon.

[zyphodb]

Yes, if things go pear shaped here, I'd add Vietnam as well. Not the Phillies though, don't want to lose everything to a Typhoon much...

[BMW Overlander]

Never.

[SGD]

Not often this question is sensibly asked and less so sensibly answered.

 

I am not tied to Thailand but I have never lived in Cambodia or Vietnam and haven't even been to Laos.

 

I have no desire for malls, no need for golf, eating local is fine though I do like spicy and I am content without 5* luxury. Medical is an issue but insurance and a couple of Plan Bs cover most of that.

 

Sadly, I cannot roll back the clock to the Thailand I fell in love with. The people have changed and the landscape pillaged for profit. I see that happening everywhere and nowhere is immune.

 

I study this argument with interest as I want to go to these places for a month or two but as I still have business in Europe then I am constrained by the amount of time I can get away in one trip and that is what, more than anything, makes me return to Thailand as I can relax on day one.

 

With so little time, were I to make plans say to go to Cambodia, then if I didn't want to stay there, I would have lost so much of my precious holiday getting back to Thailand and if I stayed there, then I would probably regret not going to Thailand - oh for days past when you could border hop at will ????

 

Yet I am aware that I could see myself asking the same question in 5 years time and regretting not going.

 

However, as I move toward retirement, I do want a real relationship again. That seems to preclude Laos but not Cambodia and presumably not the Philippines, which is also on the "spend a month or two there" list.

[nervona81732]

The short story is NO, the long story is NO.

[WineOh]

Ok, thanks for the input!

For those who say a firm NO, what is it that is keeping you here?

What do you love about Thailand?

[4737 Carlin]

21 hours ago, WineOh said:

Cambodia now seems reminiscent of Thailand in the 70's

I lived in Phnom Penh for 5 years. Pretty much the only thing cheaper than here is a beer. Do you enjoy Thai food ? Larb, khaosoi, krapao etc.? Well, you won't get any of that in Cambodia. 40 baht gets you nothing edible on the street. Cambodian street food is poor quality, unsanitary, and inedible. The only good thing is the khmer's are incredibly stingy with portions so you'll soon be underweight and malnourished. Do you like that you can rent a comfortable room here for less than 5000 baht per month ? Well, that won't get you anything in Phnom Penh. Any half-decent, safe accommodation will cost you at least double. The Chinese have bought up most places and inflated the rents. To top if off, the only supermarket chain "Lucky' has price fixed for all imported goods so there is a 'luxury tax' on pretty much anything that's not a bag of rice. There is absolutely no way on earth living in Cambodia (I can only speak for Phnom Penh) is better than living here. I wouldn't live there again if someone paid me.

[WineOh]

2 minutes ago, 4737 Carlin said:

I lived in Phnom Penh for 5 years. Pretty much the only thing cheaper than here is a beer. Do you enjoy Thai food ? Larb, khaosoi, krapao etc.? Well, you won't get any of that in Cambodia. 40 baht gets you nothing edible on the street. Cambodian street food is poor quality, unsanitary, and inedible. The only good thing is the khmer's are incredibly stingy with portions so you'll soon be underweight and malnourished. Do you like that you can rent a comfortable room here for less than 5000 baht per month ? Well, that won't get you anything in Phnom Penh. Any half-decent, safe accommodation will cost you at least double. The Chinese have bought up most places and inflated the rents. To top if off, the only supermarket chain "Lucky' has price fixed for all imported goods so there is a 'luxury tax' on pretty much anything that's not a bag of rice. There is absolutely no way on earth living in Cambodia (I can only speak for Phnom Penh) is better than living here. I wouldn't live there again if someone paid me.

interesting reply.

Thanks for your input mate.

[Sydebolle]

I know many who actually moved to Cambodia; too much bureaucracy, impolite, rude and arrogant by the local authorities giving those dirty farang a extensive ride on the merry-go-round. The first wave moved when border running was eradicated; hundred thousands of aliens, spending 20K-30K monthly in the realm, disappeared and left a huge hole in many Thai pockets. 

The TM1 - TM37 forms, inconsistent application of (sometimes non-)existing laws, greasing the palm fees to enforce the „No Tips“, the ever-worsening forex rates and increasing costs moved another few hundred thousands. 

Without my entire family of kids and grandkids I might have moved to Laos, where USD 400 buy (officially) a one year visa with multiple re-entries and a work permit; process taking one week. The country absolutely beautiful, certainly behind Thailand in many comfy aspects but lovely people and unspoiled naturals compensate for all those missing achievements of the 21st century! 

[BritManToo]

32 minutes ago, WineOh said:

Ok, thanks for the input!

For those who say a firm NO, what is it that is keeping you here?

What do you love about Thailand?

My 2 children (age 9 and 22).

[WineOh]

1 minute ago, Sydebolle said:

The country absolutely beautiful,

No beaches though. 

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, 4737 Carlin said:

I lived in Phnom Penh for 5 years. Pretty much the only thing cheaper than here is a beer. Do you enjoy Thai food ? Larb, khaosoi, krapao etc.? Well, you won't get any of that in Cambodia. 40 baht gets you nothing edible on the street. Cambodian street food is poor quality, unsanitary, and inedible. The only good thing is the khmer's are incredibly stingy with portions so you'll soon be underweight and malnourished. Do you like that you can rent a comfortable room here for less than 5000 baht per month ? Well, that won't get you anything in Phnom Penh. Any half-decent, safe accommodation will cost you at least double. The Chinese have bought up most places and inflated the rents. To top if off, the only supermarket chain "Lucky' has price fixed for all imported goods so there is a 'luxury tax' on pretty much anything that's not a bag of rice. There is absolutely no way on earth living in Cambodia (I can only speak for Phnom Penh) is better than living here. I wouldn't live there again if someone paid me.

I didn't find PP or SR like that, food was good, many restaurant choices, I was paying between $1-$2 for breakfast in a restaurant, and $5-$10 for an evening meal. I never eat street food so I don't care how good or bad it is.

 

here is the photo of the breakfast menu from a  classy restaurant I used to visit (March 2020) .......

The pancakes, Tuna rolls, and omelette/bacon/beans all good served with a pot of tea (3/4 cups) for an extra $1. 

 

 

 

 

My pal just moved from PP to Kampot, says it's very nice, restaurants and bars cheap with good quality food, no air pollution, but not many people around.

Edited March 25, 2021 by BritManToo

[JeffersLos]

I think both Cambodia and Laos will be nicer places to live than Thailand in 20 years time. 

[WineOh]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I didn't find PP or SR like that, food was good, many restaurant choices, I was paying between $1-$2 for breakfast in a restaurant, and $5-$10 for an evening meal. I never eat street food so I don't care how good or bad it is.

 

here is the photo of the breakfast menu from a  classy restaurant I used to visit (March 2020) .......

The pancakes, Tuna rolls, and omelette/bacon/beans all good served with a pot of tea (3/4 cups) for an extra $1. 

 

 

 

 

My pal just moved from PP to Kampot, says it's very nice, restaurants and bars cheap with good quality food, no air pollution, but not many people around.

Looks nice mate.

Get fed in there then off to find some skirt in the early evening..

sounds like a plan! 

[KOZMO]

I was here in Thailand in the good old days. Spent two years at Ubon and one year at Udorn. This was in the 70's.

I was in the US Air Force and loved Thailand, no smog, no problems with rip off's because Thailand was run by the Military

and to keep getting all the American money, they along with the Thai Police made sure we were not bothered. Pattaya was pristine. only one hotel, the Pattaya Palace. the rest were guest houses. The bars were small and super friendly. The water was actually blue in color. The girls were fantastic and many times they would just want you to pay for there breakfast after a long night of fun! Chaing Mai was so beautiful. from the top of Wat doi se tep, all you saw was Chaing Mai university. the rest was all green scenery. The ladies beauty shops turned into girls for sale at night. I loved that Thailand!!! When the first prime minister took office in 75, we had to leave Thailand, he was a communist !!! I was lucky to get to Clark AB, Philippines.

Eventhough i could speak thai, it was great to have all the people speak english.  the ladies were so beautiful. Many of my friends married there housegirls. The maids were very young and beautiful. Many Americans got rid of there Thai wives or American wives to marry these women. The price to live downtown was so cheap and the food was even cheaper. I spent 9 years total in the Philippines. Both my sons were born there also. I did not marry in Thailand but met my wife in America. I could not believe she was Thai. She was 5 ft. 5 in. and had a 36-26-38 body, spoke perfect english and i could not believe she was Thai. she loved the philippines too and we would visit Thailand and slowly see it turn into a <deleted> hole. While the Philippines cleaned up Manila and tore down all the slum areas, Thailand built many hotels but left the slums in Bangkok. you get to see them all around Bangkok. was in Bangkok last year and got caught in the lockdown. No improvement except more pollution and rip offs. I am back in Florida and the only choice if i wanted to stay would be the Philippines.

[WineOh]

6 minutes ago, KOZMO said:

I was here in Thailand in the good old days. Spent two years at Ubon and one year at Udorn. This was in the 70's.

I was in the US Air Force and loved Thailand, no smog, no problems with rip off's because Thailand was run by the Military

and to keep getting all the American money, they along with the Thai Police made sure we were not bothered. Pattaya was pristine. only one hotel, the Pattaya Palace. the rest were guest houses. The bars were small and super friendly. The water was actually blue in color. The girls were fantastic and many times they would just want you to pay for there breakfast after a long night of fun! Chaing Mai was so beautiful. from the top of Wat doi se tep, all you saw was Chaing Mai university. the rest was all green scenery. The ladies beauty shops turned into girls for sale at night. I loved that Thailand!!! When the first prime minister took office in 75, we had to leave Thailand, he was a communist !!! I was lucky to get to Clark AB, Philippines.

Eventhough i could speak thai, it was great to have all the people speak english.  the ladies were so beautiful. Many of my friends married there housegirls. The maids were very young and beautiful. Many Americans got rid of there Thai wives or American wives to marry these women. The price to live downtown was so cheap and the food was even cheaper. I spent 9 years total in the Philippines. Both my sons were born there also. I did not marry in Thailand but met my wife in America. I could not believe she was Thai. She was 5 ft. 5 in. and had a 36-26-38 body, spoke perfect english and i could not believe she was Thai. she loved the philippines too and we would visit Thailand and slowly see it turn into a <deleted> hole. While the Philippines cleaned up Manila and tore down all the slum areas, Thailand built many hotels but left the slums in Bangkok. you get to see them all around Bangkok. was in Bangkok last year and got caught in the lockdown. No improvement except more pollution and rip offs. I am back in Florida and the only choice if i wanted to stay would be the Philippines.

nice one mate.

 

Thailand sure aint the place it once was.

Oh to be here in the 70's! 

[AlfHuy]

22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'd move to Cambodia if my kids weren't Thai.

It's a great place, beer is 50c a glass, cocktails $1, and loads of really good Indian restaurants @ $5/meal. Cannabis also very easy to access at $10/bag.

I like Siam Reap and Phnom Penh, would have no problem living in either city.

Easy retirement VISA as well at $300/year for the over 50s with minimal paperwork.

 

Laos no, no local women allowed in your room, and the secret police follow you around to check.

No local women.

Take them from another city.

[thurien]

"What would it take for you to make the move over the border?"

naught. Neither to communist Laos, Vietnam, nor to  unstable Khmer, Birma, Phillies nor to Muslim Malaysia, Indonesia