On 3/28/2021 at 9:57 AM, EVENKEEL said:

What's wrong with everyone paying the same tax. Seems fair to me. If you make $1000./yr you pay your 15% you make 10 billion you pay 15%.

Paying tax is one reason the the less well off pay more tax proportionally than rich people and companies. The main difference is that the less well off cannot afford to pay for accountants.

 

Tax avoidance is legal but tax evasion is illegal.

 

Very good accountants will save you more than they cost you and they will steer you away from pitfalls and problems.

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Paying tax is one reason the the less well off pay more tax proportionally than rich people and companies. The main difference is that the less well off cannot afford to pay for accountants.

 

Tax avoidance is legal but tax evasion is illegal.

 

Very good accountants will save you more than they cost you and they will steer you away from pitfalls and problems.

Also keep in mind that income taxes aren't the only kind of tax. Sales taxes impose a far heavier burden on those who earn less.

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Paying tax is one reason the the less well off pay more tax proportionally than rich people and companies. The main difference is that the less well off cannot afford to pay for accountants.

 

Tax avoidance is legal but tax evasion is illegal.

 

Very good accountants will save you more than they cost you and they will steer you away from pitfalls and problems.

Having a flat tax would eliminate accountant shenanigans, everyone would pay the same, no loopholes. 

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Also keep in mind that income taxes aren't the only kind of tax. Sales taxes impose a far heavier burden on those who earn less.

Fair is fair. Why does sales tax effect the poor more? Don't criminalize those who make more.  

On 3/28/2021 at 9:57 AM, EVENKEEL said:

What's wrong with everyone paying the same tax. Seems fair to me. If you make $1000./yr you pay your 15% you make 10 billion you pay 15%.

You know it's not that simple.  The guy making 10 billion will find loopholes to ensure he doesn't pay his 15%.  But you say eliminate all the loopholes?  Impossible.  How about the interest deduction for home mortgages?  Dependent deductions?  Deductions for stock market losses?  Medical/education deductions?  State tax deductions?  Charity deductions?  The list is endless. 

56 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Having a flat tax would eliminate accountant shenanigans, everyone would pay the same, no loopholes. 

Let's do that when everyone earns the same eh...

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

You know it's not that simple.  The guy making 10 billion will find loopholes to ensure he doesn't pay his 15%.  But you say eliminate all the loopholes?  Impossible.  How about the interest deduction for home mortgages?  Dependent deductions?  Deductions for stock market losses?  Medical/education deductions?  State tax deductions?  Charity deductions?  The list is endless. 

It's not endless, it's very doable. Making sure the rich pay should be possible if they're paying a flat rate.

I was deducting plane fare, hotels, car rental, uniforms, cel phones, everything job related till Trump put a stop to all that with an increased personal deduction. If folks want fair that's the ticket.

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Let's do that when everyone earns the same eh...

What does it matter what you earn, we all throw in the pot 15% of income after deductions.

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

What does it matter what you earn, we all throw in the pot 15% of income after deductions.

If we want to be fair to all then flat rate taxes should be introduced when all earn the same...as it is those who earn more should pay more.

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

If we want to be fair to all then flat rate taxes should be introduced when all earn the same...as it is those who earn more should pay more.

You make more you pay more, you earn $1000/yr after deductions you pay $150. and if you make $1000,000 you pay $150,000. So simple.

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

You make more you pay more, you earn $1000/yr after deductions you pay $150. and if you make $1000,000 you pay $150,000. So simple.

Yep, the rich should definitely pay more.

 

So glad we agree.

 

Simple indeed.

8 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

What does it matter what you earn, we all throw in the pot 15% of income after deductions.

I thought it was a flat 15%. Now you've also got deductions? So not 15%.

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I thought it was a flat 15%. Now you've also got deductions? So not 15%.

Some things should be deductible like property tax, if you have rentals you have expenses. I don't see how you can cancel that. But definitely stop the tricky stuff some folks are doing. But I believe folks would feel better being on a level playing field.  

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

Paying tax is one reason the the less well off pay more tax proportionally than rich people and companies. The main difference is that the less well off cannot afford to pay for accountants.

 

Tax avoidance is legal but tax evasion is illegal.

 

Very good accountants will save you more than they cost you and they will steer you away from pitfalls and problems.

Although I agree with this in principle, you may find that those of moderate means right up to rich people will have complex investments that require more strategy and bookkeeping.  For me, TurboTax has more than enough bells and whistles, and the cost most anyone can afford.

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Having a flat tax would eliminate accountant shenanigans, everyone would pay the same, no loopholes. 

It may work for the lower paid people but somewhere in the IRS laws are allowances for this and that and that is where accountants earn their fees.

13 hours ago, Chiphigh said:

Zero factual reality in this statement. 

When you look at the details of the new regulations, it's difficult to escape the conclusion that they were aiming at African Americans.

 

Among other things, the changed rules limit the practice known as “souls to the polls” voting, an extraordinarily blatant effort to reduce the electoral impact of the African Americans who vote in great numbers after church.

 

Vote-by-mail, which is used by African American voters at higher rates than White voters, has been restricted.

 

Restrictions were also introduced on drop boxes and mobile voting units which African Americans use more often because they more often work multiple jobs.

 

Voter ID requirements were made more stringent - black voters are disproportionately less likely to have the forms of ID required to qualify to vote by mail.

 

As the lawsuit that has been filed, contesting these changes states, these measures “serve no legitimate purpose or compelling state interest other than to make absentee, early, and election-day voting more difficult — especially for minority voters.”

32 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Voter ID requirements were made more stringent - black voters are disproportionately less likely to have the forms of ID required to qualify to vote by mail.

 

As the lawsuit that has been filed, contesting these changes states, these measures “serve no legitimate purpose or compelling state interest other than to make absentee, early, and election-day voting more difficult — especially for minority voters.”

What type of ID is required for mail in voting. Is the ID required for voting in person different from mail in? 

Not understanding why blacks are less likely to have proper ID.

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Not understanding why blacks are less likely to have proper ID.

Dead simple. Blacks statistically are less well off than whites. They are less likely to have government issued forms of photo ID such as passports, driver's licenses and student cards. They are less likely to have rental leases, mortgages or pay utilities. This is a more than obvious fact and statements like this are disingenuous.

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Dead simple. Blacks statistically are less well off than whites. They are less likely to have government issued forms of photo ID such as passports, driver's licenses and student cards. They are less likely to have rental leases, mortgages or pay utilities. This is a more than obvious fact and statements like this are disingenuous.

I was under the impression DMV issues photo ID's besides a Drivers License. Are you telling me that Blacks are not able to do that? Isn't that racist in a way, like saying they aren't smart enough.

3 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I was under the impression DMV issues photo ID's besides a Drivers License. Are you telling me that Blacks are not able to do that? Isn't that racist in a way, like saying they aren't smart enough.

 

Don't put words into my mouth. People who hold any of the forms of identity I mentioned do not have to make the effort to obtain a special form of ID. Requiring them to do so is an impediment and therefore restricts voting. There is no evidence or proof of voter fraud because of an absence of ID.

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I was under the impression DMV issues photo ID's besides a Drivers License. Are you telling me that Blacks are not able to do that? Isn't that racist in a way, like saying they aren't smart enough.

The reason why racial minorities often face issues getting photo id's is nothing to do with intelligence, it's because of things like poverty, transportation and bureaucratic problems.

 

For instance, many of the people who struggle to obtain a valid photo ID are elderly and poor and were born in homes rather than hospitals. As a result, birth certificates were often lost or names were misspelled in official city records.

That can be put right by having their name legally changed, but that can be a difficult, lengthy and expensive process costing hundreds of dollars (which they often can't afford), involving background checks, multiple trips to government offices and/or court appearances and can take years.

 

These problems disproportionately affect racial minorities as they are more likely to be from poorer and more disadvantaged backgrounds.

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Don't put words into my mouth. People who hold any of the forms of identity I mentioned do not have to make the effort to obtain a special form of ID. Requiring them to do so is an impediment and therefore restricts voting. There is no evidence or proof of voter fraud because of an absence of ID.

 

The right to vote in the US is held by US citizens, what's wrong with making sure that they all are?

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

The right to vote in the US is held by US citizens, what's wrong with making sure that they all are?

 

Are votes not checked off against voter registration?

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Are votes not checked off against voter registration?

Of course they are.

5 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

The reason why racial minorities often face issues getting photo id's is nothing to do with intelligence, it's because of things like poverty, transportation and bureaucratic problems.

 

For instance, many of the people who struggle to obtain a valid photo ID are elderly and poor and were born in homes rather than hospitals. As a result, birth certificates were often lost or names were misspelled in official city records.

That can be put right by having their name legally changed, but that can be a difficult, lengthy and expensive process costing hundreds of dollars (which they often can't afford), involving background checks, multiple trips to government offices and/or court appearances and can take years.

 

These problems disproportionately affect racial minorities as they are more likely to be from poorer and more disadvantaged backgrounds.

Having old people with no birth certs is not a valid reason for not requiring ID's for voting. It isn't.

On 3/29/2021 at 7:41 PM, GroveHillWanderer said:

When you look at the details of the new regulations, it's difficult to escape the conclusion that they were aiming at African Americans.

 

Among other things, the changed rules limit the practice known as “souls to the polls” voting, an extraordinarily blatant effort to reduce the electoral impact of the African Americans who vote in great numbers after church.

 

Vote-by-mail, which is used by African American voters at higher rates than White voters, has been restricted.

 

Restrictions were also introduced on drop boxes and mobile voting units which African Americans use more often because they more often work multiple jobs.

 

Voter ID requirements were made more stringent - black voters are disproportionately less likely to have the forms of ID required to qualify to vote by mail.

 

As the lawsuit that has been filed, contesting these changes states, these measures “serve no legitimate purpose or compelling state interest other than to make absentee, early, and election-day voting more difficult — especially for minority voters.”

No, there is no targeting of anything other than fraud. The ID requirements are for everyone, race or financial status is not. 

 

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Of course they are.

But the registration details are not verified with government issued ID. 

 

 

Voting hours were extended, is that voter suppression?

On 3/26/2021 at 6:59 AM, mfd101 said:

My perception is that, so far, he's doing fine. He's been moving energetically to help the US recover from the horrors of the past 4 years and is certainly making up lost ground on the foreign relations front. (Dammit! I thought he was going to be a weakling, thinks Xi Jinping)

 

He's appointed good people around him. And the one area that looks problematic has just been turned into a training ground for the Veep to show what she's made of. Good work all round.

Gees. The bar that Trump set is so low that I think each one of us from this forum would make a better President than Trump. 

 

I am sort of neutral about Biden. And, it is too soon to say how he is doing. Let's wait for at least a year, shall we? 

13 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

What type of ID is required for mail in voting. Is the ID required for voting in person different from mail in? 

Not understanding why blacks are less likely to have proper ID.

For one thing, a driver's license is the most commonly used form of ID. So the lower your income, the less likely you are to have a driver's license.