Hi. Apologies if this post is inappropriate, but I'm genuinely asking the question so I hope it won't get flamed.

I have been looking for a detached house in Pattaya to settle down with Thai wife and son. First we approached a couple of property dealers, but we have found their prices to be way over the top for what is, let's face it, a buyers market.

We have since shifted course and spent the past few days driving around looking for places advertised for sale so we can approach the sellers directly, cut out the middle man and make a win win deal for both parties. Seemed like a good strategy, but its time consuming.

 

We are looking to spend max 4.5 million on a detached house in a family friendly location, preferably North Pattaya or Jomtien. If anyone has seen or knows of any stellar deals it would be great if you could let me know. Or if you can share some advice for house hunting that also would be great as kind of a bit lossed at the moment.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Steve

Everything comes to him who waits.

 

Optimists think the market has already bottomed out.

 

But if you wait another 6 months you could find that this is not true.

~80% of the market you're looking at have these objects as secondary (or third, and so on) properties. This crisis, contrary to the 2008 crisis, the central banks provided liquidity within weeks. We had no foreclosures either in the US, the EU or parts of Asia. Not only did property prices stay firm in China, Tokyo, San Diego and Stockholm - the liquidity and asset purchases was so severe property prices are far above that of pre-C19. (I'm talking about cities which are the primary cities for capital owners, which Pattaya is not). So, you'll be able to rent for -50% discount, but firesales have been very rare IMO. They simply wait it out (no bank is calling on the door, why sell for a loss?). 

So, to summarize, yes it's a bit cheaper (of course) but the prices does not reflect the severe supply/demand issue. It's outrageously oversupplied (and undermanaged). 

For condos it is buyers market,, For houses not so much as many seem to "know". Houses and personal space is what people want now because of covid,,.

 

4 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

~80% of the market you're looking at have these objects as secondary (or third, and so on) properties. This crisis, contrary to the 2008 crisis, the central banks provided liquidity within weeks. We had no foreclosures either in the US, the EU or parts of Asia. Not only did property prices stay firm in China, Tokyo, San Diego and Stockholm - the liquidity and asset purchases was so severe property prices are far above that of pre-C19. (I'm talking about cities which are the primary cities for capital owners, which Pattaya is not). So, you'll be able to rent for -50% discount, but firesales have been very rare IMO. They simply wait it out (no bank is calling on the door, why sell for a loss?). 

So, to summarize, yes it's a bit cheaper (of course) but the prices does not reflect the severe supply/demand issue. It's outrageously oversupplied (and undermanaged). 

 

Thais won't undersell as they risk losing "face". There are a few motivated western/overseas sellers in difficulty. T.I.T.. Good luck.

 

 

1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

 

Thais won't undersell as they risk losing "face". There are a few motivated western/overseas sellers in difficulty. T.I.T.. Good luck.

 

 

Good point, you are looking local, but your most motivated seller might be stuck 8,000 miles from Thailand. 

Join some Facebook groups and regular post your buy offer.

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/297383420411880/permalink/2040439079439630/?sale_post_id=2040439079439630

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/297383420411880/permalink/2043183575831847/?sale_post_id=2043183575831847

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/297383420411880/permalink/2041346896015515/?sale_post_id=2041346896015515

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/297383420411880/permalink/2043121999171338/?sale_post_id=2043121999171338

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/297383420411880/permalink/2043179319165606/?sale_post_id=2043179319165606

Suggestions:

 

1. Use Google Maps to find the Moo Bahn's that exist in the general area of interest. They're pretty obvious on maps. There are dozens that nobody knows about unless you live there or in the area.

2. Visit the village/s and have a drive around.  Most security guards will let you in if you smile and tell them you are looking to buy/rent.  Or they may call the village "Camp Mother" to come and talk to you.

3. Drive around and note the rent/sale signs.  Make some phone calls to those for sale/rent in the village/s you are interested in.

4. It doesn't matter which house you make the call about. As soon  as you actually inspect a house, suddenly the Camp Mother, or the security guard, or a nosey local occupant will tell you about the other 20 houses in that village that are for sale and will give you the owners phone number or more likely, call them for you.  They gat a kick-back for doing so.

4. Don't talk to an agent, always talk to the owner. If an agent answers your phone call, hang up.

5. Decide on the VILLAGE, not the house, because literally every house in the village is for sale.

6. If you are serious, try and rent the house (or any house) in the village for at least a month. Why?  Because you will get a chance to see the inhabitants, pick up on how well or badly the village is managed in regard to noise, the pool, security and all things that may be anti-social behavior, as well seeing what sort of people inhabit the village.  And believe me, there are some weirdos that could ruin  your house owning experience. Get the Minutes of the Juristic Authority and see if there have been any issues of note raised by the owners at the last meeting.

7. Only deal with the owner.  Be prepared to hold out on price and look at as many houses in that village as possible to create a bidding situation.  Despite TV popular opinion, price negotiation and seller motivation is the same in Thailand as anywhere else in the world - sure, if one owner owns 20 houses all over the city they may be a hard negotiator, but if they are just Kuhn Somchai or Joe Bloggs, they are just like you and me when it comes to a deal. 

Thanks for the helpful input.  We have contacted some people on the Facebook groups, but most of them seem to be agents and we are really trying to avoid their fees if possible. 

 Had a drive around some Moo Bahn's as recommended. Prices still seemed rather high considering the places I looked at all needed quite a bit of work.

Actually I was persuaded by my wife to check out a place run by Supalai housing. As expected rather cookie cutter buildings with not the most space, but everything is quite modern and for the price I think Its not bad value. 

I will stick to the plan of hitting the places direct for the next few days and see if I can strike a deal.

Anything advertised on English media is aimed at farangs and will have farang pricing.

 

Hopefully your wife can worm her way into some local networks where there may be better bargains. Of course, it may take time. I think your current approach is the correct one, although it could take a few months and a lot of effort.

 

If you currently do not live in Pattaya, maybe you can find a nice rental property in the location you want. You should rent for 6 months until a good opportunity comes up. If you have cash available, a genuine bargain will should turn up within that 6 month period.

 

You can also get to know the area to confirm it is where you want to live.

 

 

 

21 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

~80% of the market you're looking at have these objects as secondary (or third, and so on) properties. This crisis, contrary to the 2008 crisis, the central banks provided liquidity within weeks. We had no foreclosures either in the US, the EU or parts of Asia. Not only did property prices stay firm in China, Tokyo, San Diego and Stockholm - the liquidity and asset purchases was so severe property prices are far above that of pre-C19. (I'm talking about cities which are the primary cities for capital owners, which Pattaya is not). So, you'll be able to rent for -50% discount, but firesales have been very rare IMO. They simply wait it out (no bank is calling on the door, why sell for a loss?). 

So, to summarize, yes it's a bit cheaper (of course) but the prices does not reflect the severe supply/demand issue. It's outrageously oversupplied (and undermanaged). 

yep

I often look thru FB marketplace at Houses/Land for Sale in my area, usually it's the owner needing money. We've just bought 1 rai land with 28 mt frontage on Nan river in Pitsanulok for 1.2 mill works out at 3000b (A$125) per wah (or A$31.25 per sqm). Houses are cheap to build atm too

8 minutes ago, Dumbfounded said:

I often look thru FB marketplace at Houses/Land for Sale in my area, usually it's the owner needing money. We've just bought 1 rai land with 28 mt frontage on Nan river in Pitsanulok for 1.2 mill works out at 3000b (A$125) per wah (or A$31.25 per sqm). Houses are cheap to build atm too

sounds like a steal, done well there...........................

Have a look over at the darkside, much more choice and popular with expats, also not far away.

 

Yesterday i passed a house behind Soi Buakhao, you find them in strange places, i also have one outside my Pratumnak condo, check out the streets where you'd prefer to live, you might stumble on something

Asking prices dont reflect a collapse in the sales foreign owners have paid cash and BKK owners holiday pads with borrowings not selling, heard rumours of a few bargains but there are so many agents around would be on them like a flash

Rentals even with reduced supply are 50% down since covid, but were dropping before covid.

Rents should effect sale price in normal markets.

 

13 hours ago, bojo said:

sounds like a steal, done well there...........................

 

.......until he's flooded out.

While rentals are down the " buyers market" hasn't produced anything. Same in the west 

6 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

 

.......until he's flooded out.

Stilts would be the way to go me thinks in that location, as is the norm, a traditional wooden house on conctrete posts wood be smart way to go and those traditional teakwood houses(albeit not cheap) sure are beautiful...................

On 6/8/2021 at 2:54 AM, soi3eddie said:

 

Thais won't undersell as they risk losing "face". There are a few motivated western/overseas sellers in difficulty. T.I.T.. Good luck.

 

 

 

 

I tend to agree with your post but you really don't address his question:

 

" If anyone has seen or knows of any stellar deals it would be great if you could let me know. Or if you can share some advice for house hunting that also would be great as kind of a bit lossed  (sic?) at the moment."

 

 

How about u first finalize 3 moobaans that you like.?

once you got that i will tell you the next step.

example Jomtien Baan Suanlalana. 

 

On 6/8/2021 at 2:53 PM, scubascuba3 said:

i also have one outside my Pratumnak condo

do you own or rent?

on pratumnak hill or near the russian market?

4 hours ago, DerbyDan said:

do you own or rent?

on pratumnak hill or near the russian market?

Own off Pratumnak hill on one of the sois, glad i bought there, still easy to get to town and when it opens i walk to Walking st 

I just relocated here from Saudi a few months ago. Wife and daughter came here earlier. Decided to rent first in a house quite near the daughter's new school, so that we could ensure the daughter liked the school and in slow time look around for a more permanent place. Several houses are for sale on our Moo Baan but they aren't advertised or even have an home made sale sign on. We are getting offered deals all the time.

 

However, rental is so cheap at the moment I don't know if I can be bothered to commit into buying another house (we have one already up North).

 

The post above by Gsxrnz pretty much nails it for me

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Own off Pratumnak hill on one of the sois, glad i bought there, still easy to get to town and when it opens i walk to Walking st 

do you go down kasetsin rd by the park? ???? 

 

that's the worst area i have scouted condos at. its an isolated enclave with construction everywhere and you need to taxi out unless your inhuman. the area has a lot of condo listings that look great on a brochure and are really cheap, i checked it out on foot first and did not even bother to see the condo.

 

are you in that isolated area near the sea and the pattaya sign? or more over by buddha hill where unixx is?

45 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

do you go down kasetsin rd by the park? ???? 

 

that's the worst area i have scouted condos at. its an isolated enclave with construction everywhere and you need to taxi out unless your inhuman. the area has a lot of condo listings that look great on a brochure and are really cheap, i checked it out on foot first and did not even bother to see the condo.

 

are you in that isolated area near the sea and the pattaya sign? or more over by buddha hill where unixx is?

kasetsin is a no go zone, wild dogs, probably dingo's too, it's too isolated, no quick access to town. I'm close to Pratumnak hill near the top which means i can walk to Thepraya in 5 minutes and 2nd road 10 minutes so can catch a baht bus, but 99% of the time i use a motorbike or walk. 30 mins walk to walking st. Pratumnak is all about location, you want to be walkable to baht bus in case you need one. Much of Pratumnak is too far

????

 

Well having visited quite a few moo bahns and contacting the places directly, it seems the prices are not that different from what the dealers are asking for on the online market places and there are really few bargains to be had as others pointed out. Regularly getting quoted 5 + million baht for run down properties in villages where the only signs of life are the sounds of growling dogs as I meander past. 

 

Now I am  switching focus to the rental market and trying to get a bargain there instead which seems more promising. Overall, I've never seen Pattaya so dead since I  first traveled here since in 2005. So many boarded up shops and convenience stores, deserted beaches, not even offers for a massage when I walk down the street which is definitely a first!  Had breakfast w/ my family outside of that German bakery opposite Terminal 21 and an old woman was staring at us the whole time. Took me a while to figure out she was waiting for us to leave so she could scavenge for any leftover scraps of food...

 

I have been looking in a different location from a far for the last 15 months and conclude anything that was 4.5m is now 9.5m ????

On 6/10/2021 at 11:41 AM, mrbojangles said:

Several houses are for sale on our Moo Baan but they aren't advertised or even have an home made sale sign on. We are getting offered deals all the time.

 

 

Thailand is light years away from having a buyers' friendly  system of buying houses.

On 6/9/2021 at 11:13 PM, scubascuba3 said:

kasetsin is a no go zone, wild dogs, probably dingo's too, it's too isolated, no quick access to town. I'm close to Pratumnak hill near the top which means i can walk to Thepraya in 5 minutes and 2nd road 10 minutes so can catch a baht bus, but 99% of the time i use a motorbike or walk. 30 mins walk to walking st. Pratumnak is all about location, you want to be walkable to baht bus in case you need one. Much of Pratumnak is too far

are you really happy with a permanent residence in pattaya?

 

is it somewhere you want to grow old in, or just a vacation property?