Re: using Astra Zeneca Vaccine

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, connda said:

This almost reads like, "Give it to the old people.  No biggie!"  And now.  "Warning - some within the scientific community recommend not giving it to old people either." 
Well - you can't sell your product if that happens, so it's best to find captured regulators who will rubber stamp it with a blanket "its benefits outweighed any risks" as we keep hearing. 
But that's only a decision an individual can make for themselves. 
There are huge vested interests who stand to lose money globally if AZ starts losing market share due to adverse reaction concerns. So, convince me that all government officials and regulators are above reproach and tell the public only the god's honest truth 100% of the time?  I've lived too long not to know the answer to that statement.  You'd have as much luck trying to convince me that Thailand is corruption free.  "Of course it is."  <wink wink>  ????

OK, so what are YOU going to do? Reject AZ available now or in the near future, and wait until October or November for Pfizer/Moderna in the private hospitals? Take your chances with no vaccine at all?

I've said it before, the concept of risk should be a compulsory subject in all schools.

[RichardColeman]

Total scaremongering

 

Incidents from taking AZ - ONE in 250,000

Incidence from taking contraceptive pill - ONE in 2,000 !

Incidence blood clots in pregnancy - ONE in 1,500.

 

People still going on the pill in mass and having children in mass.

You are more likely to die in the Thai roads than die from AZ, but you still go out.

 

[connda]

34 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The statistics are saying 30% of people that are infected with COVID require months of rehabilitation to repair the lung damage done, it's like a non-smoker that suddenly has a two-pack a day habit.

 

Source and attribution.  Otherwise it's hearsay.

[connda]

26 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

OK, so what are YOU going to do? Reject AZ available now or in the near future, and wait until October or November for Pfizer/Moderna in the private hospitals? Take your chances with no vaccine at all?

The latter.  No vaccine at all.  ????

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

Source and attribution.  Otherwise it's hearsay.

For the UK.......

 

The ONS said one in 10 people it surveyed who tested positive for Covid-19, still had symptoms 12 weeks later......(30% seems over egged).........but at 10% that would still equate to millions.....(not sure what the adult population is)

Edited June 13, 2021 by Surelynot

[connda]

51 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

COVID is not the flu.

Is it a influenza virus.  No, it's a SARS virus.
Does it have flu symptoms.  That it does.

From they Mayo Clinic:
"Overview Influenza is a viral infection that attacks your respiratory system — your nose, throat and lungs."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/symptoms-causes/syc-20351719
From Wikipedia:
In a typical year, 5–15% of the population contracts influenza. There are 3–5 million severe cases annually, with up to 650,000 deaths globally each year. Deaths most commonly occur in high risk groups, including young children, the elderly, and people with chronic health conditions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza

Yeah, the virus is different.  But it's "viral infection that attacks your respiratory system — your nose, throat and lungs."
Same-same.  ????

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by connda

[connda]

19 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

For the UK.......

 

The ONS said one in 10 people it surveyed who tested positive for Covid-19, still had symptoms 12 weeks later......(30% seems over egged).........but at 10% that would still equate to millions.....(not sure what the adult population is)

You left the interesting stuff out and didn't provide a link. 

I've added the interesting stuff and added the link to the data you quoted:

"The Office for National Statistics said the work was in its "infancy"."
 

"That means the survey is not necessarily representative of the whole population - it might over-represent certain groups of people who for whatever reason, perhaps because they are still troubled by symptoms, are more likely to stay in the study.

The ONS said the analysis is "very much a work in progress"."
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55331166

It's not a published study and it has a lot of holes in its design.  Let's look at it if it becomes a peer reviewed study published in a scientific journal.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
- Author unknown, popularize by Mark Twain

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by connda

[DavisH]

2 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

Can I ask if they took your BP prior to the jab or anyone else for that matter as they seem to a bit anal here, if your BP is up you don't get it. TIA

Yes, you wll have your BO taken. You would be asked to rest for a while to bring it down if it's higher than what they want to see. You may have to reschedule if you cannot bring it down. Mine is always high at the doctors, so I had to wait some time after mine was 180/100. I think the second measurement was 142/90+, and that was ok with the doc. At home its about 135, 80+. If you take blood pressure medication, you should continue to use it on the day of your jab. 

[Heng]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Not that fishy when so much money was pumped into it and there were projects all over the world, it was kinda urgent

 

Plenty of diseases have had plenty of research/time/money pumped into it without results but yeah that's what I'm hoping for.    

[bert bloggs]

Had my AZ jab 4 days ago,slightly sore where they injected me for very short time ,so far as with my flu jabs,feel fine,i have heart problems now some 40 yrs,blood pressure taken 111/ 69 about normal for me,rested for half hour after given form to say what i felt like 1 day ,10 days and 30 days after.

[tifino]

we been each day watching for our Monk who'd had AZ 2 weeks ago...   he's now just all day  mulling still-like this sitting statue...

temple elders doing most of the chanting for him, and his jabbed arm hangs to ground like an old chimp... ????     At same time, he's over those weeks developed a continuous sniffle phlegm cough into spit bucket

- but he and his jabbed elder elder both now won't wear masks,... 'because' they've been jabbed  ???? 

  The sense of their 'i am jabbed invulnerabilty'  is very sad to see... 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, connda said:

Yeah, the virus is different.  But it's "viral infection that attacks your respiratory system — your nose, throat and lungs."
Same-same.  ????

 

 

Actually not.

 

One of the biggest mistakes with COVID was initially thinking it was  a respiratory disease. We now know that it is not. It is spread via respiratory droplets and aerosols, but it is primarily a vascular disease which affects multiple body organs. The lung damage seen in severe COVID is due to damage to the pulmonary vascular endothelium.

 

This initial misunderstanding contributed to initial mortality rates being higher than they now are. COVID patients were initially treated like any patient with (highly infectious) viral pneumonia, which we now know is not at all the right way to manage them.

 

it was only natural to have expected COVID to be similar to SARS in its pathology but, like pretty much all logical initial assumptions about the disease, this turned out not to be true.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7556303/

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902

 

[Meat Pie 47]

7 hours ago, worgeordie said:

What to do..What to do, ? , I am booked in for AstraZeneca jab

beginning of next month, and I am well over 60 ..it's OK saying

more chance getting killed on way to hospital , but getting or

not getting the jab ,is my choice, there was a report 12 people

still died from Covid after they had gotten 2 jabs ...in UK.

regards worgeordie

and how many died without getting the jab?

[Sheryl]

One other factor to keep in mind - and a very important one  for non-1st world countries - is the demanding cold chain requirements of the mRNA vaccines.

 

AZ is far more forgiving in that respect and a more feasible vaccine for use in all but the most developed countries.

 

Whatever they finally decide to do in Europe (and as of now there has been no change, AZ is still used) --  where the pandemic is on the decline, mRNA vaccines are readily available and it is possible to maintain the extreme cold storage they need -- can not and should not guide policies elsewhere where conditions differ.

 

I got the AZ vaccine and despite some 30 unpleasant hours (fever, chill etc) I would certainly do it again rather than wait months for an mRNA vaccine. Now, had an mRNA vaccine been immediately available, would I have chosen that over AZ? Yes, of course. But the advantages are of small magnitude and do not remotely equal the risk of remaining unvaccinated for many more months.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, connda said:

Is it a influenza virus.  No, it's a SARS virus.
Does it have flu symptoms.  That it does.

From they Mayo Clinic:
"Overview Influenza is a viral infection that attacks your respiratory system — your nose, throat and lungs."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/symptoms-causes/syc-20351719
From Wikipedia:
In a typical year, 5–15% of the population contracts influenza. There are 3–5 million severe cases annually, with up to 650,000 deaths globally each year. Deaths most commonly occur in high risk groups, including young children, the elderly, and people with chronic health conditions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza

Yeah, the virus is different.  But it's "viral infection that attacks your respiratory system — your nose, throat and lungs."
Same-same.  ????

 

 

 

3 hours ago, connda said:

You left the interesting stuff out and didn't provide a link. 

I've added the interesting stuff and added the link to the data you quoted:

"The Office for National Statistics said the work was in its "infancy"."
 

"That means the survey is not necessarily representative of the whole population - it might over-represent certain groups of people who for whatever reason, perhaps because they are still troubled by symptoms, are more likely to stay in the study.

The ONS said the analysis is "very much a work in progress"."
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55331166

It's not a published study and it has a lot of holes in its design.  Let's look at it if it becomes a peer reviewed study published in a scientific journal.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
- Author unknown, popularize by Mark Twain

 

There are many, many studies showing that a signifcant percentage of people - generally around 30% give or take - suffer long term sequelae from COVID. This is not a new finding nor in any way limited to one or two studies.

 

Of particular note, there are studies showing a significantly  increased risk of death for 6 months after recovery from COVID even for those whose cases were mild or aysymptomatic.

 

 

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

Can I ask if they took your BP prior to the jab or anyone else for that matter as they seem to a bit anal here, if your BP is up you don't get it. TIA

 

The jabs were conducted in groups of 5 people at a time.

 

All 5 in each 'group' sat together (with social distancing) for about 30 minutes.

 

When we sat in the 'group' of 5, the nurse asked each person if they had blood pressure issues, everybody said NO, and no blood pressure test occurred . Then she gave everybody a well prepared card with simple/relevant questions on both sides, all with YES  /  NO boxes. 

 

She came back about 10 minutes later, politely asked if anybody had ticked YES to any of the questions or if anybody wanted any explanation of the questions. Everybody was good to go. Some folks asked other questions, all answered clearly, politely and with good attitude.

 

We then moved to a set of chairs outside of the room where the inoculations were happening. The nurse (same nurse) then gave a 3 or 4 minute briefing about the injection, the fact we would one by one go to the next set of chairs for the post jab 15 minute jab rest, and during this period we would be given a handout about what to do / who to call  / number to call if any reactions at home. Also the  / date 7 time of next appointment All in big bold font (12 weeks later) and a number to call if date/time needed to be changed. 

 

One by one we were escorted into the jab room. A polite admin. lady asked to see my Medicare card, she compared the number with the listing she already had, then she handed back my card and said 'I'm going to read out your Medicare no., please check if I'm correct'. All good. She also mentioned that her colleague would call the DVA taxi to pick me up.

 

Then the jab, all organized so that the jab happened quickly after I sat down in the 'jab chair'. Jab was given by a senior nurse.

 

I'm not sure what needles they are using but I did notice that it wasn't a long needle and it was very thin. The actual jab was completely painless, I didn't fell anything. Then escorted to the rest area.

 

During the 15 minute rest period the Admin. lady came and confirmed she had called the DVA taxi.  Right on the end of the 15 minute rest time she came back and escorted me down to the taxi and made sure I was comfortable in the taxi.

 

About 2 hours later I got a very clear SMS message asking if I had any reactions after leaving the hospital and a request to click on a live response number if any reactions and mentioning if there was any reaction they would immediately dispatch an ambulance with trained para-medics. I had no reaction whatever.

 

All of the above was early/mid afternoon.

 

Next morning at about 9.00 a m I got a repeat of the SMS call above.

 

About 6 weeks after the first jab I got a phone call asking if I wanted to adjust the date for my 2nd jab. And the hospital calling the DVA taxi was also mentioned and the time for my pick up, and asked if I wanted to adjust the DVA taxi pick up point to take me to the hospital.

 

The handout also mentioned that the hospital will make a personal reminder call 1 day before the 2nd jab. 

 

No reactions whatever.

 

In regard to blood pressure testing, I did mention to my own dr. that there was no BP test. His comment was that everybody's BP goes up and down and this is driven by many factors. One of which is heavy exercise before the BP is taken and if there's any emotional stress or anxiety just before / at the time of the BP test this will very probably raise the persons' BP temporarily to quite a high level. My Dr., also mentioned that unless the patient has a known history of high BP he wouldn't take a BP reading just before the jab. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by scorecard

[Lacessit]

12 hours ago, connda said:

Source and attribution.  Otherwise it's hearsay.

It was an article I saw in "The Age", an Australian middle of the road newspaper, a month or two ago. It's not media that is given to sensationalism.

I don't preserve such articles on the off-chance I will be asked to quote chapter and verse. Sorry.

[Lacessit]

12 hours ago, connda said:

The latter.  No vaccine at all.  ????

Your choice, IMO that's going to restrict your mobility and increase your risk of death and prolonged impairment, unless you isolate completely. Good luck.

[scorecard]

50 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It was an article I saw in "The Age", an Australian middle of the road newspaper, a month or two ago. It's not media that is given to sensationalism.

I don't preserve such articles on the off-chance I will be asked to quote chapter and verse. Sorry.

 

Agree, 'The Age' doesn't publish  looking for sensationalism, nor do they publish conspiracy theories, they publish from facts and from expert proven opinion given by recognized/accredited experts. 

[Liverpool Lou]

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The statistics are saying 30% of people that are infected with COVID require months of rehabilitation to repair the lung damage done, it's like a non-smoker that suddenly has a two-pack a day habit.

Ignorant post.

Which statistics are those?   

 

"it's like a non-smoker that suddenly has a two-pack a day habit",

What?   

[Mavideol]

18 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

My mate, 70 yo, apart from initial soreness if he raised his arm above his head, has not had a problem He is looking forward to his second dose in 2 weeks.

Does one experience counter the other.

you refer to your mate as HE .....  maybe female VS male could be the trigger

Edited June 14, 2021 by Mavideol

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Which statistics are those?   

 

"it's like a non-smoker that suddenly has a two-pack a day habit",

What?   

Smoking diminishes lung capacity. A non-smoker has a lung capacity of 5-6 litres of air. Over time, a two-pack a day smoker degrades to 2-3 litres of air capacity.

Coronavirus does the same in some patients, but over a time span of 1-2 weeks. That's why hospitals in the worst -affected countries were running out of ventilators.

[club]

21 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Doesn't bother me, more for us if people don't want it

Help yourself, I will stick with Moderna when I go Home. Better odds and better vaccine or pay for it if it ever gets here

Edited June 14, 2021 by club

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, club said:

Help yourself, I will stick with Moderna when I go Home. Better odds and better vaccine

Won't you have to go into quarantine?

[club]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Won't you have to go into quarantine?

Hopefully not. 14 days after second shot of moderna I will be fully vaccinated when I return. But you never know with this place. They change their minds like the weather

[Banana7]

When it comes to AZ in Thailand, be aware of this:

 

[EricTh]

On 6/13/2021 at 5:23 PM, moogradod said:

Even if some might accuse me of scaremongering I just recommend one thing for anybody who can speak German: Google "Astra Zeneca Nebenwirkungen" and then you might maybe be interested in the following: https://de.rt.com/meinung/116950-astrazeneca-gefaehrliche-nebenwirkung-viel-haeufiger-als-angenommen/

 

I just want to point out that there is such a publication - nothing more. As @conndaposted above it is you alone that must make the decision what to believe and how to act. I do not recommend anything.

 

What does it say?

 

[Sheryl]

Post with substantial misinformation have been removed.

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

 

It says (short summary): Astra Zeneca does publish so called "Rote Hand Briefe" (Red Hand Letters) which is information aimed at Healthcare Professionals. Already in the publication of April 13, 2021 Astra Zeneca informs about one side effect whose probability had to be increased to "common" which translates to 1-10%: "Trombocytopenia". (This is one to 10 out of 100 vaccinations).

 

But this must not be confused with the "Blood-Clotting" itself. Trombocytopenia is rather a condition that promotes Blood-Clotting - but according to the original German article which I have linked in my original post this condition might stay with you forerever and IF THIS IS TRUE (which is impossible for me to verify), then it would make you vulnerable for a lifetime. I am not a doctor but does this not sound like a cause why some fatal incidents occur immediately and some only after some time ?

 

Here is a link to a related original publication from Astra Zeneca in English: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/dhpc/direct-healthcare-professional-communication-dhpc-vaxzevria-previously-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca_en-0.pdf

 

And one of the last sentences quite at the end of the text is

 

While further evidence is being collected, the PRAC has recommended an update to the product information of Vaxzevria to reflect the current knowledge of the safety issue.One of these updates is in section 4.8 of the SmPC to reflect thrombocytopenia as an adverse reaction, with a frequency of common, based on data from clinical trials and to include thrombosis in combination with thrombocytopenia with frequency of very rare.

 

At least this must probably not be classified as fake news - rather as "news at the time of writing"

Please note that it still says that thrombosis (Blood-Clotting) is considered "very rare". So far so consoling. I am just saying the original German article I saw on the net was interesting to me.

 

By the way, scientists of the university of Ulm and the Paul-Ehrlich institute are researching why at times Astra Zeneca does not seem to work as we would like: (I say it in very non professional words not knowing what it actually means in detail, but this is how I have read it): They say that the Vector vaccine does transfer the protein directly to the cell nucleus but not (as it should) in the fluid surrounding the nucleus. Maybe some specialist could explain that but I think it even does not matter for us potential users. But for me this news is all pointing to a possible assumption that the incidents of people dying from a Astra Zeneca Vaccination might not be just coincidental or "because she was old anyway" as you hear in every second post although there might of course be cases where this is perfectly true.

 

 

 

[HampiK]

I had AZ  last Friday.. and had no side effects so far... My wife she felt a little bit sleepy for about 1 day.
Her parents also vaccination wit AZ they also felt sleepy.. and the mother additionally had some fever for about 2 days.
now all seems to be back normal.

 

I agree there are side effects.. whoever tell any vaccine is without any risk is lying. Nothing in life is without risk!

You have to think for yourself what is the smallest risk in your opinion and then handle on that factor.

For myself (I guess) the risk of vaccine is much smaller, than become a Covic infection! 

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, HampiK said:

I had AZ  last Friday.. and had no side effects so far... My wife she felt a little bit sleepy for about 1 day.
Her parents also vaccination wit AZ they also felt sleepy.. and the mother additionally had some fever for about 2 days.
now all seems to be back normal.

 

I agree there are side effects.. whoever tell any vaccine is without any risk is lying. Nothing in life is without risk!

You have to think for yourself what is the smallest risk in your opinion and then handle on that factor.

For myself (I guess) the risk of vaccine is much smaller, than become a Covic infection! 

Mild or moderate side effects from a vaccine are normal. In fact, it means the vaccine isworking and your body is learning how to fight off the real virus.

 

It begs the question has your body reacted? Maybe it didn't work?

 

Not sure why, but doctors do not recommend testing to see if it has worked??????