To me personally, if the girl mentions Sin Sod then she is showing you that she could be controlled by her family and or she is potentially wanting to milk you, after all depends on how well off the family are.

 

Long of the short 15 years ago I said to my wife while we were having dinner; how much would you like for the Sin Sod, she said, oh you know about Sin Sod, and I said; only what I have read, (we have a similar culture in my country), and she said up to you, then I said, no, you give me a figure, so we back and forth until she said a million baht, I said that isn't going to happen and she said, well.....you asked me to give you a figure, and I replied 200,000 baht, and she said, up to you.

 

15 years later she has a big house, furnished, a car, motorbike in her name, for the Sin Sod I gave her the 200,000 baht as mentioned above, but on the wedding day her parents received 500,000 baht for "the show", knowing that they had to give me the extra 300,000 baht back the same day. 

 

After the wedding, the 300,000 baht came back to me, same day. I then said to my wife that the 300,000 baht is hers, however it is a condition that it goes towards her 2 year old sons, from a (previous relationship), education, and my wife was blown away and very grateful, but first asking me if I could afford it, she has remained true to that agreement and only used it for the sons education with around 100,000 baht remaining in the account with 2 years to go till finishing college, I know that because when she wants to withdraw money from that account she has to tell me what it's for, (part of the agreement).

 

So basically depends on how well off you are and how much your prepared to invest/lose, personally, I made a great investment, parents never break my wife's balls over money as they know that this farang will only help out in the event of a medical emergency, she does however take them food and spoil them a little every now and again by given them 500 baht here and there because she has other sisters who should rightfully help them out too.

 

As much as my story might disappoint some that didn't work out, I have to agree I am lucky, but not because luck is on my side, but because I met a great gal who appreciates the life she has had since meeting me and will of course continue to not have to think twice about where the money is going to come from when I go.

 

Dare I mention, she was a bargirl.....lol 

Do whatever you are comfortable doing.

 

My wife and I married officially at the amphur in Feb and had the Isaan blessing and party the following November.

 

A large amount (4 million + ) was placed on the table and given to MIL for show, all returned that same day and safely back in the bank that evening, accompanied by uncle and his two police friends.

 

The envelopes received on the day just about covered the cost of the dinner and drink, it was only a daytime event, no mad music into the small hours.

 

Six years down the line, MIL has transferred the 20 room dormitory and her house to my wife and has never asked for a single satang, all we paid was the transfer fees.

 

We have refurbished the house and used the fake sinsot money and some of my retirement lump sum to build another dorm, so we now have income from 38 rooms for rent.

...up to you.

Sin Sot was mentioned when I got married.  I told her Sin Sot was for 18-year-old virgins, not a woman in her 50's with children in their 30's.  That ended that.  I think friends had been pushing her to ask; "he fallang, he rich".  He not!  ????

4 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Just curious, but those that did the sin sod andvillage Wedding, no one is saying so far, how much did you get in envelopes ?

 

When someone in the family got married they said they wanted to invite as many as possible for more envelopes. They ended up with 80k in "donations" 40k of that covered the Wedding costs of food whisky flowers , band etc..

A niece got married a couple of months ago, she a teacher the groom in the army, both early 20s. The sin sod was around 250k with 400k on show. The girls parents did not have much money except their house but the mother wanted a big wedding, so in the order of 500 guests and the envelopes returned 170k that paid for most of the wedding.

My wifes family never paid my family a baht,which i thought was harsh,especially as they are quite well off,

Thaikand is one of the few countries which flipped dowry on it's head. In many nations the money is paid to the man. Here? 

 

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/8-reasons-dowries-are-bad-for-women/

I have a small discussion where i tell my gf that it is mother and father that asks for the sinsod and not gf. She says its not and im stating that in all world where sinsod is asked for the sinsod is for mother and father. We also discuss about that a Thaiman would never pay sinsod for a girl with 2 children an unmarrid where she states that a Thaiman would. PLease someone help me with this question

Google might be a better way to search Thaivisa forums, there are several recent threads about sin sod...

Sin sod query - Marriage and divorce - Thai Visa Forum

14. feb. 2021 — Sinsod is outdated and is not part of your culture. As an American Father my responsibility is to pay for my Daughters wedding when the time ...

Crazy sin sod - Page 5

19. mar. 2019

Crazy sin sod

13. mar. 2019

Sin Sod - Page 4

4. okt. 2019

Sin sod query - Page 4

16. feb. 2021

More results from forum.thaivisa.com

14 hours ago, Maha Sarakham said:

Every situation in regards to a dowry will be unique.  I will try to keep it simple just in the interest of saving time.

 

Generally if she has been married before or has kids, there will not be a dowry.  If there is a divorce, you're not getting your money back.  Think of it as a gift to her family and just be willing to walk away from it.

 

If she is younger and/or has a University education with a decent job, the expectation for the dowry will likely be higher. 

 

The subject of a dowry is a very sensitive topic to many foreigners who simply don't agree with it.  However, it is a very real practice in Thailand where even the Thai men will typically procure a loan to pay for the dowry and associated wedding ceremony.

 

My wife's friends from University have been getting married to the tune of 500,000 to 1,000,000 THB to Thai men.  These are just average looking girls with an education and a decent job.  You may be asked for more if the family gets greedy and see's you as a farang with a lot of money, it's very typical in the villages of Isaan.  However, if the family see's their daughter is happy and she is on your side, they may be willing to work with you on that.  It really depends, so many variables to this.

Regarding divorce I believe Thai law dictates everything that's been accumulated during in a relationship should be divided 50/50...simple. In practice I've no idea if it works.

 

Some other points:

 

A dowry is not an obligation for everybody: The tradition is more appropriate between Thai couples

 

A dowry might be offered and declined (as in the case of my own Thai wife with her first marriage)

 

I believe that if she is not a virgin no sin sod is applicable.

Will somebody lie about that?

 

I also have heard that the dowry money should be returned as it is a gesture of good faith only

 

I have not been involved in such a thing as a dowry but if it were me, I might argue there is just as much importance of my culture as theirs, so maybe we negotiate.

 

Definitely, I want to get on with my in-laws and I want my girl to be happy that they and us will be compatible for the future so make some sort of arrangement we can all agree on!

 

Answering the OP about how much? Once you are willing, then you are restricted by how much you can afford.

 

And remember, Many parents of the bride will expect you to buy or build her a house, some gold and...

 

But every potential bride and her parents will be different and you all have to work out something!

 

Good Luck, mate!

 

 

 

 

send pictures please  .. to better evaluate of course

100,000 b is Max Il pay , just go be nice to parents , but that’s it unless I gift them a tv or western toilet etc 

Hmmm, I might have missed out here:-

• Unmarried, no kids, "virgin" => Pay sin-sod
• Prevously married / kids => No sin-sod
• Granny => Family pay you??

My lady was already a granny (just) when we got hitched, family were surprised that she had a farang boyfriend (some suggested I was probably 90 odd years old). Did I miss a trick in not asking for a "husband price"?

 

That was nearly 20 years ago, still incredibly happy and the brood of Thai (and UK) grandkids continues to grow. No great grandkids just yet.

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Hmmm, I might have missed out here:-

• Unmarried, no kids, "virgin" => Pay sin-sod
• Prevously married / kids => No sin-sod
• Granny => Family pay you??

My lady was already a granny (just) when we got hitched, family were surprised that she had a farang boyfriend (some suggested I was 90 odd years old). Did I miss a trick in not asking for a "husband price"?

 

That was nearly 20 years ago, still incredibly happy and the brood of Thai (and UK) grandkids continues to grow. No great grandkids just yet.

She knew you were a bright "spark" and she was on the right "track" and wasnt being "railroaded"....yes all puns intended mate...5555

4 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

She knew you were a bright "spark" and she was on the right "track" and wasnt being "railroaded"....yes all puns intended mate...5555

 

Oh, it was all "engineered" by my boss's Thai wife (I had met her in HK). She decided that Crossy had "woman problems", he didn't have one, so one was provided! Apparently I'd been spotted as "a bit of alright" at one of her parties (Madam is still blind as a bat) and so a date was organised. The rest, as they say, is history.

Yes, Sin-sod is usually paid if not previously married and no children. Theoretically she should be a virgin - but these days unlikely. Remember the sin-sod and other gifts/party is mainly about face for the parents. No money, their social status may fall (especially in the village). The last 2  Thai-Thai weddings i went to were lavish affairs - one was for about 300 guests at a prestigious hotel, the other was at a large entertainment venue with  about 500 guests. Neither of them were Hi-so affairs. Sin-sod was paid in both cases although how much i do not remember.

My own wedding i was asked for 600,000 baht, same as was paid for the youngest daughter. I negotiated that down to 300,000 which my queries prior to the marriage suggested was a normal amount if the husband could afford it (also she was  a bit long in the tooth). The party (with morlam) came to 48,000 baht, held in families restaurant, about 200 guests. I bought a ring, but we borrowed the gold. This was 11 years ago. Father was the previous pooyai-baan for many years so there was face to be upheld.

 

We lived in M-in-L's house so no rent to pay or house to build at first. But as i found out later, sin-sod and the wedding were just down payments on the costs to come! But that's another story. Still married.

It's strange how accepting westerners are of the term dowry to describe sin sod. In no way is it a dowry. It doesn't look like a dowry, or work like a dowry. In attempting to describe sin sod accurately in English, it's difficult to avoid the inelegant phrase bride price, but then, there you have it, that's what it is.

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Oh, it was all "engineered" by my boss's Thai wife (I had met her in HK). She decided that Crossy had "woman problems", he didn't have one, so one was provided! Apparently I'd been spotted as "a bit of alright" at one of her parties (Madam is still blind as a bat) and so a date was organised. The rest, as they say, is history.

Yes, we are sized up as marriage prospects very quickly. I had only been in Thailand 4 days when the wife of a hotel manager tried to set me up with a waitress! My wife/wife's family did the same at their restaurant/fishing park - on 4th visit the wife invited me out. Good husbands are like durian .... always looking for a good deal!

10 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

 

Some families return the sin sod - their choice. By refusing to give sin sod, for whatever rationalization you might have, you are pretty handily insulting their daughter as worthless... they may accept this as it might in the long run be better for their daughter if they don't make waves, but it is still quite an insult. 

 

 

I was never asked for sin sod, my GF was married previously. As my GF and her family are very happy with what I have brought to the table, I suggest you stop making unwarranted and insulting assumptions about someone you don't know.

Are you saying sin sod should be paid for GF's as well as wives? That's a new one.

Do not pay a sinsot or you will live to regret it , i was asked for 400,000 baht i asked why . reply you farang you can pay . my reply was i farang i  big cxxk  i not pay . that was the end off any sinsot. Fact not fiction

I married an Isaan gal from a ridiculously poor village.

 

The way I looked at Sin Sod, was the importance of the amount so the family could have some "face" in the village that their daughter was worth something.

 

I realized culturally it was very important and this was very important to my wife.

 

My wife handled all the sin-sod which amounted to around 400K baht in cash and another 10 baht is gold jewelry that I took her shopping for and she picked out what she wanted prior to the ceremony. (Funny part of this story was I showed up at the gold store with her in a pair of shorts, flip flops and vintage tee-shirt, probably looking to the shop owners like I couldn't afford anything. There were simply amazed when I paid for it all.)

 

Prior to the wedding, we had a company come out with at least 20 wedding dresses so my wife could choose one. She also chose a thai style suit for me. Western wedding dress for her.

 

We did the traditional village wedding, where the groom starts walking from way down the street with the rest of the village and marches to the brides house.

 

Bride and groom both had to have 2 virgin attendants. For me the 2 boys carried the cash and gold on separate platters.

 

The two girls got to go through the whole make-up ordeal with the make-up artists.

 

There were gate keepers at the house that need to be paid, 100 baht each, and others at the door that washed your feet.

 

Inside the house the cash was laid out on a mat and counted in front of the people that could fit in the house. Mostly the elders.

 

Once the money was counted, the FIL was asked if that was enough for his daughter and he said yes.

 

String was wrapped around everyone in attendance.

 

The gold was presented to my wife one at a time and was place on her by her assistants.

 

Lot of talking and it was over. Then the guest came one by one, wishing us well and many giving cash in a handshake.

 

We had 6 circus tents sent up with a giant stage and wall of speakers.

 

Tables were all decorated with table clothes, bows, and drink set ups.

 

There was a band, coyote dancers and others that got on stage to sing a song.

 

We had sent out 200 invitations, however, by the time the party was in full swing there were over 500.

 

We had roast pigs, stuffed fish and a whole banquet of food and drink.

 

My wife was queen for the day and her father was beaming with pride over this giant spectacle.

 

The envelopes collected around 60K baht which was amazing considering how poor the entire village is.

 

I spent around 125,000 baht total, including paying neighbors to cook, clean the dishes, disassemble the tents etc.

 

The next morning I was shocked when the wife told me she had the 400,000 sin sod returned by the FIL.

 

One of the best times of my entire life and my wife never forgets how special that was to her and her family.

 

Sin Sod always seems to divide those that have and can, to those that don't have and cannot.

 

Compared to a US wedding the cost would have been enormous and meant nothing to my wife.

 

One of the best decisions I ever made was to do exactly what we did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@bwpage3 great post.

 

Nice to hear from someone who has actually got their head around the whole thing.

I wouldn't take the "virgin" requirement too literally in this day and age, but the cheek of some families to ask for a dowry despite the fact that the bride-to-be has already been married to another man or even given birth is unbelievable. In these cases, any illusion of virginity is obviously out of the window - and so should be any delusion of receiving a dowry!

I would stick at no paying any dowry. If she or her family is not okay just do not marry.

You are not a Thai and it is your girlfriends fault if she choosed a foreigner.

And also... Have you ever heard of a Thai man paying sinsod to his farangs bride family?

I never heard of something like that.

Ok, this is pedantic, I admit, but...

 

Dowry is money paid by the bride's family to the groom or to the groom's family. 

 

Sin Sod is more akin to a bride-price.

 

From wikipedia: A dowry is a transfer of parental property, gifts, property or money upon the marriage of a daughter (bride).^[1] Dowry contrasts with the related concepts of bride price and dower. While bride price or bride service is a payment by the groom, or his family, to the bride, or her family, dowry is the wealth transferred from the bride, or her family, to the groom, or his family. Similarly, dower is the property settled on the bride herself, by the groom at the time of marriage, and which remains under her ownership and control.^[2] 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Caldera said:

I wouldn't take the "virgin" requirement too literally in this day and age, but the cheek of some families to ask for a dowry despite the fact that the bride-to-be has already been married to another man or even given birth is unbelievable. In these cases, any illusion of virginity is obviously out of the window - and so should be any delusion of receiving a dowry!

... or even given birth ...

A cow with a calf is worth more.

6 hours ago, Caldera said:

I wouldn't take the "virgin" requirement too literally in this day and age, but the cheek of some families to ask for a dowry despite the fact that the bride-to-be has already been married to another man or even given birth is unbelievable. In these cases, any illusion of virginity is obviously out of the window - and so should be any delusion of receiving a dowry!

my lady has a cousin in the Village, was Bar Girl , married  an American Guy has one son, the Husband died 2 years ago,

She went back to the Bar to work, met another American, who is besotted with her and wants to marry,

the in laws to be have asked 500k sinsod, the first Husband paid 300k, He has already bought gold for MIL and girl,

and Motorbike for the Father , sends the girl 40k every month , He is back in the States due to the pandemic at the moment.

the greed of some families is relentless, I fear it will be much worse for him as time goes by.

41 minutes ago, lodstewart said:

fear it will be much worse for him as time goes by.

 

Nah...this one's different.

 

????????????????????

1 hour ago, lodstewart said:

my lady has a cousin in the Village, was Bar Girl , married  an American Guy has one son, the Husband died 2 years ago,

She went back to the Bar to work, met another American, who is besotted with her and wants to marry,

the in laws to be have asked 500k sinsod, the first Husband paid 300k, He has already bought gold for MIL and girl,

and Motorbike for the Father , sends the girl 40k every month , He is back in the States due to the pandemic at the moment.

the greed of some families is relentless, I fear it will be much worse for him as time goes by.

"... asked 500k sinsod, the first Husband paid 300k..."

 

Inflation is a bitch.  Hope she isn't. 

 

I got my gal cheap.  It wasn't until 20 or so years later when I had money that I got tapped.  Mostly long-term interest-free loans which worked out. Still own a house and a couple lots there in some relative's name.