Thais unconvinced by govt’s unique mix-and-match jab policy

[Jonathan Fairfield]

 

Like many Thais, veteran journalist Wichit Chaitrong had been looking forward to getting a government-provided COVID-19 jab for months – but not anymore. He changed his mind after hearing the government rollout will use Sinovac for the first dose and AstraZeneca for the second – a mix-and-match formula untried by any other country.

 

“I will look for a safer option,” Wichit said. “I am going to explore alternative vaccines from now on”.

 

This jab mix-and-match was the last straw, especially after his vaccination booking was cancelled for an unspecified timeframe.

 

The World Health Organisation (WHO) has approved Sinovac and AstraZeneca vaccines for emergency use. However, its guidelines say the same brand should be used for both doses.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thais-unconvinced-by-govts-unique-mix-and-match-jab-policy/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-07-18

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow ASEAN NOW on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[law ling]

Very brave (or fool-hardy) of authorities here to proceed with jab-mixing - which is against WHO guidelines.

[colinneil]

10 minutes ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

will use Sinovac for the first dose and AstraZeneca for the second – a mix-and-match formula untried by any other country.

No worries they are Thai, they know better than any other people.

Reminds me of being in Woolworths as a child..... Pick and mix.????????

[steven100]

Pfizer, Moderna, both mRNA  vaccines,   and both have had good results. 

While Moderna and Pfizer are based on mRNA, the AstraZeneca vaccine is a viral vector vaccine. This means it uses a different mechanism to induce an immune response. The second dose is also given at a longer interval, instead of the 3- to 4-week suggested interval with the others.

 

 

[internationalism]

17 minutes ago, law ling said:

Very brave (or fool-hardy) of authorities here to proceed with jab-mixing - which is against WHO guidelines.

actually there was an article on this forum, that WHO "not opposed" thai idea of mix and match.

other countries are already doing it, including many in europe.

the problem is with sinovac, which is not effective for delta and that one is now prevalent in thailand. It did protect well

against earlier  mutations. Might, or might not, protect against future strains. 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by internationalism

[ThailandRyan]

Waitress: Sir would you like some Orange juice with your breakfast

customer: Why yes I would Thank you

Waitress: Here you go Sir

Customer takes a drink and spits it out, Waitress what the hell did you just give me?

Waitress: Orange juice, but we were almost out of it so I mixed in a lemon and a lime as they are all citrus fruits

Customer: So you believe that since they are all citrus that that would work

Waitress: Well it's the same premise that the Thai Government is using by mixing vaccines, it may work or it may not

 

Yes an analogy, but why Thais are not buying the new mix narrative, this was told to me by a Thai friend of the GF's last night when we were talking to her about the GF getting vaccinated.  If this is the way the Thai people are thinking then will this strategy the government has ever gain traction without a complete study being done first.  Many of them do understand the AZ and Pfizer/Moderna mixture of vaccines but that is because they have seen the studys and stories on line.  No study yet or stories on the Sinovac/AZ mix.

[DrJack54]

I don't think the issue for Thai is fact it's a mix of vaccine. The problem is that one of them is Sinovac. Thai (and others) have completely lost faith in sinovac. 

Thats an issue.

.

[John Drake]

11 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I don't think the issue for Thai is fact it's a mix of vaccine. The problem is that one of them is Sinovac. Thai (and others) have completely lost faith in sinovac. 

Thats an issue.

.

Mixing is being proposed because of AZ, not Sinovac. AZ cannot produce nearly enough. Same problems with AZ everywhere.

[mtls2005]

The public is unconvinced because:

 

the regime has been extremely opaque on the details of the vaccine "plan"

 

the regime puts forth contradictory information on the efficacy, and exact vaccine cocktail du jour, almost daily

 

every day some coterie of clowns (yong, deans) comes out their pronouncements on a vaccine mix 

 

the pm flip-flopped on this

 

 

so they (public) are justifiably confused.

 

 

Best bet:

 

admit you screwed the pooch

reveal all details on current vaccine order and contracts, and expected deliveries

open up, and fully support the private option

join COVAX (if possible)

secure any/all mRNA vaccines at any cost as son as possible

publish one single plan, update it frequently: what, who when, status, progress,

get everyone over 60 fully vaxxed first

 

Oh, and that 120 day opening, uhm, yeah, that's toast so don't even go there.

 

And streamline the daily CCSA briefings: clear, concise, brief. These briefings do little to inform the public and seem to be a forum for Dr. Opas to preen for his bosses.

 

 

 

Testing, quarantine/isolation, lockdowns, treatment; those are obviously separate issues.

 

 

 

[metisdead]

A post with a trolling image and a reply has been removed. 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

Pfizer, Moderna, both mRNA  vaccines,   and both have had good results. 

While Moderna and Pfizer are based on mRNA, the AstraZeneca vaccine is a viral vector vaccine. This means it uses a different mechanism to induce an immune response. The second dose is also given at a longer interval, instead of the 3- to 4-week suggested interval with the others.

 

 

extensive published trals were performed in Germany and concluded that Pfizer and AstraZeneca were as effective as both on their own but more study was needed

 

Thailand claimed they had performed something with zero published data

 

feel free to go for it

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

admit you screwed the pooch

reveal all details on current vaccine order and contracts, and expected deliveries

open up, and fully support the private option

join COVAX (if possible)

secure any/all mRNA vaccines at any cost as son as possible

publish one single plan, update it frequently: what, who when, status, progress,

get everyone over 60 fully vaxxed first

You sum it up so well.

There was (and maybe window slightly ajar).  Opportunity to come up smelling of roses.

Admit mistakes.

Outline in detail existing situation of vaccine supplies along with any firm delivery dates. Not "deal in planning stage"

Bring private enterprise into it starting yesterday.

Will stop there.....just repeating what @mtls2005 has already stated. 

Honestly always best option. Smoke and mirrors alienate folk.

[brommers]

2 hours ago, internationalism said:

actually there was an article on this forum, that WHO "not opposed" thai idea of mix and match.

other countries are already doing it, including many in europe.

the problem is with sinovac, which is not effective for delta and that one is now prevalent in thailand. It did protect well

against earlier  mutations. Might, or might not, protect against future strains. 

 

There is another problem that seems to be being ignored and that is the Beta variant which is present in the southern part of Thailand. AZ is totally useless against this variant, so what is going to happen to southern Thai residents who first get Sinovac which is useless against Delta followed by AZ which is useless against Beta. Sounds to me like the government is leaving these people totally unprotected and creating a Beta factory that will spread it across the country.

 

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, law ling said:

Very brave (or fool-hardy) of authorities here to proceed with jab-mixing - which is against WHO guidelines.

From the linked article

 

WHO’s stance

 

“WHO chief scientist Dr Soumya Swaminathan warned earlier this month that mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccine was “a dangerous trend”. However, she clarified that her warning applied to individuals, not to public health authorities, who she said may make their own decisions on combining jabs.

 

Dr Renu Madanlal Gargy, acting WHO representative to Thailand, confirmed that the global health agency would not object to Thailand’s policy, since each country needed to choose a vaccine policy based on its context as well as scientific data.”

 

Germany, Canada, Saudi Arabia and other countries are mixing the vaccines used. 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

extensive published trals were performed in Germany and concluded that Pfizer and AstraZeneca were as effective as both on their own but more study was needed

 

Thailand claimed they had performed something with zero published data

 

feel free to go for it

Germany is now mixing az and Pfizer /Moderna as policy. 

[dmartin]

Some are experiencing affects right after the jab.

[smedly]

29 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Germany is now mixing az and Pfizer /Moderna as policy. 

yes and they have also carried out major published studies that confirm it works just as well if not better than notmal dosing of those individula vaccines 

 

The WHO sent a message to Thailand when they first announce what they were doing - the statement basically said it was ok to mix vaccines ........................PRIVIDED extensive studies had been carried out to prove efficacy and safety - has Thailand done this ?   NO 

 

from what I can see and my opinion only - they have combined one useless vaccine (against delta) and one effective vaccine and have a conbination (no spelling error) that is in effect useless - yes a con- bination

[smedly]

33 minutes ago, dmartin said:

Some are experiencing affects right after the jab.

holy ## (flip)

[mtls2005]

41 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Germany is now mixing az and Pfizer /Moderna as policy. 

 

Cool.

 

Now do that here.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Cool.

 

Now do that here.

 

 

I’ll pass on the suggestion to the glorious leader next time I run into him. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Bluespunk

[placeholder]

44 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Germany is now mixing az and Pfizer /Moderna as policy. 

Well, to be more precise, they're allowing people who were first inoculated with a dose of AZ to be inoculated a 2nd time with the mRNA vaccines. That's because of the blood clot issue with the AZ vaccine. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by placeholder

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, smedly said:

yes and they have also carried out major published studies that confirm it works just as well if not better than notmal dosing of those individula vaccines 

 

The WHO sent a message to Thailand when they first announce what they were doing - the statement basically said it was ok to mix vaccines ........................PRIVIDED extensive studies had been carried out to prove efficacy and safety - has Thailand done this ?   NO 

 

from what I can see and my opinion only - they have combined one useless vaccine (against delta) and one effective vaccine and have a conbination (no spelling error) that is in effect useless - yes a con- bination

Yep, agree there. Nothing wrong with mix and match as long as it’s based upon studies.
 

Not sure the Thai govts policy of az and sinovac is. 

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, to be more precise, they're allowing people who were first inoculated with a dose of AZ to be inoculated a 2nd time with the mRNA vaccines. That's because of the blood clot issue with the AZ vaccine. 

To be precise…

 

From the linked article 

 

“Germany is offering a similar combination – AstraZeneca followed by Pfizer or Moderna vaccine for higher efficacy. German Chancellor Angela Merkel received an AstraZeneca shot in April followed by a Moderna shot in June. Vietnam now plans to follow in Germany’s footsteps.”

 

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

To be precise…

 

From the linked article 

 

“Germany is offering a similar combination – AstraZeneca followed by Pfizer or Moderna vaccine for higher efficacy. German Chancellor Angela Merkel received an AstraZeneca shot in April followed by a Moderna shot in June. Vietnam now plans to follow in Germany’s footsteps.”

 

But they're not doing it  because of its benefits. In fact, the reason it's being done is that otherwise people who had already been vaccinated with one dose of AZ would be left stranded. And the number of people who will be doing this is obviously going to sharply decline over time.

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But they're not doing it  because of its benefits. In fact, the reason it's being done is that otherwise people who had already been vaccinated with one dose of AZ would be left stranded. And the number of people who will be doing this is obviously going to sharply decline over time.

It is being done based upon studies and is happening elsewhere as well. 
 

There is nothing in the article to indicate it will “obviously” change over time.  Please provide link to credible evidence that this will be the case. 

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

Mixing is being proposed because of AZ, not Sinovac.

That's what they're telling you.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

He changed his mind after hearing the government rollout will use Sinovac for the first dose and AstraZeneca for the second – a mix-and-match formula untried by any other country.

Same goes for me, I don't want Sino anything for starters, two shots of AZ will suffice until I can get a booster with something better later in the year.. but mixing one Sinovac with one AZ is just plain crazy.

I'm not a lab rat.

[sammieuk1]

Its the cheapest option and will be known as the Prayut various variant when it all goes horribly wrong ????

[Cake Monster]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

Mixing is being proposed because of AZ, not Sinovac. AZ cannot produce nearly enough. Same problems with AZ everywhere.

Now with AZ and the Thai MOPH having issues, and the deferred delivery of Vaccines from AZ going out to May next Year, how is the second dose going to be the AZ Vaccine ?

Thailand really is in a huge hole, that they keep digging deeper for themselves every Day.

 

[bkk6060]

Not sure how many variants.  Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma. more?

 

As four COVID-19 ‘variants of concern’ continue to circulate and dominate global epidemiology, it’s highly likely that new ones will emerge and start to spread across the world and those could be both more dangerous and hard to contain, the World Health Organization’s emergency committee warned Thursday.

 

New variants will come and possibly make any of the current vaccines weak to obsolete.

The vaccine you get tomorrow may not kill off a new variant in 2 months who knows.

Just do the best you can to make a decision, stay healthy and be careful and hope it all works.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by bkk6060