Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Words in definition of vaccine were changed, period. Yet this stirs up emotions among some of you.

But here's your original claim: 

"Covid Vaccines did not meet the true vaccine definition so wording of definition was changed. You pick your own source."

 

As that Merriam Webster article I linked to  shows, the definition of vaccine has been repeatedly changed because as science advanced, earlier definitions became outmoded. Luddite much?

Edited September 20, 2021 by placeholder

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Words in definition of vaccine were changed, period. Yet this stirs up emotions among some of you.

Yes words were changed the definition was made more clear. If you really read what you posted you too would understand that this is a lot about nothing and like placeholder says the definition has changed a lot over the years. That is what happens when science evolves. 

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But here's your original claim: 

"Covid Vaccines did not meet the true vaccine definition so wording of definition was changed. You pick your own source."

 

As that Merriam Webster article I linked to  shows, the definition of vaccine has been repeatedly changed because as science advanced, earlier definitions became outmoded. Luddite much?

Yes in his original claim e says something else and insinuates that this is some kind of evil conspiracy. Now all of a sudden he changes his tune.   

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes in his original claim e says something else and insinuates that this is some kind of evil conspiracy. Now all of a sudden he changes his tune.   

And, of course, the best qualified people to judge what a vaccine is and isn't are virologists and epidemiologists. Not lexicographers. Dictionaries are merely playing catch-up to how the term is used by the scientific community.

[EVENKEEL]

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes words were changed the definition was made more clear. If you really read what you posted you too would understand that this is a lot about nothing and like placeholder says the definition has changed a lot over the years. That is what happens when science evolves. 

I was attacked at the onset of my post, that it wasn't true. Only when you see it is true you and others try a different approach. Oh and now it's science evolves, nice one.

[spidermike007]

I am not sure if Thailand will force everyone to get the vaccine, but not having one will become increasingly more difficult and inconvenient. International travel will become impossible without one, and you may not be allowed back into Thailand ever again, if you left.

 

Just suck it up and do it. I am not a vax person, but I made an exception for this. Not worried about Gates following me around. LOL. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I was attacked at the onset of my post, that it wasn't true. Only when you see it is true you and others try a different approach. Oh and now it's science evolves, nice one.

no you claimed something else that the definition was changed so covid vaccines would fit the definition. However in that same article its explained that this is not the case. You don't even read your own article. It has absolutely nothing to do with some large conspiracy like you insinuated. All what is true is that the definition of vaccines has been updated. Not your other claim. 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I was attacked at the onset of my post, that it wasn't true. Only when you see it is true you and others try a different approach. Oh and now it's science evolves, nice one.

And then your contention that "Covid Vaccines do not meet the true definition of vaccines" was criticized by me. And as I have pointed out, it wasn't a true definition of the vaccine but an outmoded one. And, in fact this has been the history of the meaning of vaccine. It started out meaning the pus from a cowpox infections. IAs the history of the word shows, it's scientists who get to decide what the relevant facts are to determine what is and isn't a vaccine. Not dictionaries.

[Doctor Tom]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I am not sure if Thailand will force everyone to get the vaccine

Sorry to contradict you, but for expats, I would say that it is as certain as anything can be, that a double vaccine and maybe even boosters,  will at some time be required for visas and renewal of  extensions of stay. If I were the Thai authorities, that is what I would certainly insist upon. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Any link I provide you'll discredit the source, Covid Vaccines did not meet the true vaccine definition so wording of definition was changed. You pick your own source.

So you make two claims, but at last give us the link:

 

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

So this has become you're witt us or agan us, opinions aren't allowed, names created for those who dare question the authorities.

 

https://www.mahoningmatters.com/local-news/why-did-cdc-change-its-definition-for-vaccine-agency-explains-move-as-skeptics-lurk-4319035

Why would I or anyone else wish to discredit this link?

 

The article clearly outlines the reason for the change in definition, which was not as you asserted because the ‘vaccines didn’t meet the true definition’.

 

The article provides an insight into the ‘with us or gainer us’ behind the ‘conspiracy’ insomuch it’s being promoted by Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky - no surprises that he’s a Republican.

 

What he is not is any kind of medical professional and has no education or experience on the field of virology or vaccines.

 

Not a problem, the article gives an explanation for the definition from the CDC, which is replete with medical professionals and virologists.

 

So:

 

1. Your assertion that your link would be discredited is unfounded. 

2. Your assertion for why the definition was changed is unfounded.

 

Thanks for posting the informative link.

 

 

[Chivas]

Bottom line ignoring Visas per se is that no one is getting past immigration without double vaccination and certificate to prove

 

You either conform or you aint coming into or remaining in Thailand....period

[EVENKEEL]

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And then your contention that "Covid Vaccines do not meet the true definition of vaccines" was criticized by me. And as I have pointed out, it wasn't a true definition of the vaccine but an outmoded one. And, in fact this has been the history of the meaning of vaccine. It started out meaning the pus from a cowpox infections. IAs the history of the word shows, it's scientists who get to decide what the relevant facts are to determine what is and isn't a vaccine. Not dictionaries.

Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.”

 

The term “vaccine” also got a makeover. The CDC’s definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.”

 

It's just a coincidence this change happened now. I think not.

 

 

 

Up until covid hit us we looked upon a vaccine as a stopper more or less. We felt sort of safe having kids vaccinated. When my daughter was born here in Thailand they gave her  many vaccinations or shots or whatever really smart people call them so they can feel smart. Now you're trying to say it's just a coincidence that the definition of vaccine changed.  

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

But here's your original claim: 

"Covid Vaccines did not meet the true vaccine definition so wording of definition was changed. You pick your own source."

 

As that Merriam Webster article I linked to  shows, the definition of vaccine has been repeatedly changed because as science advanced, earlier definitions became outmoded. Luddite much?

Would I be out of line in thinking this is a side issue for a person who just wants to survive the pandemic?

Edited September 20, 2021 by cdemundo

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.”

 

The term “vaccine” also got a makeover. The CDC’s definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.”

 

It's just a coincidence this change happened now. I think not.

 

 

 

Up until covid hit us we looked upon a vaccine as a stopper more or less. We felt sort of safe having kids vaccinated. When my daughter was born here in Thailand they gave her  many vaccinations or shots or whatever really smart people call them so they can feel smart. Now you're trying to say it's just a coincidence that the definition of vaccine changed.  

Its truly amazing that you keep on digging. No wonder normal people think lowly of antivaxxers.

 

Vaccines before were also not 100%, all they did is update things a bit nothing changed but some wording. Yes the covid vaccines are probably less effective then other vaccines. But nobody is hiding that, its been in the news all the time. Anyone who missed that must have been living under a rock.

 

Really if this is the best you can do to make a big problem out of something so small and think its a conspiracy. You must be bored.

[at15]

the hatred on this forum is nonsense. people justifying their own medical decisions to try and remove expats from the kingdom and make themselves feel better. make your own medical decisions and stop worrying about others. if you want it great, if not then dont take it. the thai population accepts most of this stuff. there will be no mandates.

[Chomper Higgot]

48 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I was attacked at the onset of my post, that it wasn't true. Only when you see it is true you and others try a different approach. Oh and now it's science evolves, nice one.

You asserted the definition was changed because the new vaccine(s) could not meet the old definition.

 

Your assertion was a falsehood, which is why it is being criticized.

 

You are not being attacked.

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You asserted the definition was changed because the new vaccine(s) could not meet the old definition.

 

Your assertion was a falsehood, which is why it is being criticized.

 

You are not being attacked.

So you think had Covid - 19 never appeared on the scene, the definition of vaccine would still have been altered. You think that well it was just time to modify the definition, it's all just a coincidence. 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The ones with peer assessed publications in reputable journals.

You didn't give an names. Quite a few articles are appearing in reputable journals that are super dodgy. And not supported by the majority of scientists.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So this has become you're witt us or agan us, opinions aren't allowed, names created for those who dare question the authorities.

 

https://www.mahoningmatters.com/local-news/why-did-cdc-change-its-definition-for-vaccine-agency-explains-move-as-skeptics-lurk-4319035

You fall for it every time. Not credible at all. Terrible. Social media is the WORST place to get your news from.

 

From that article:

 

Social media is calling bluff on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for modifying its definition of the words “vaccine” and “vaccination” on its website.

[Jeffr2]

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So you think had Covid - 19 never appeared on the scene, the definition of vaccine would still have been altered. You think that well it was just time to modify the definition, it's all just a coincidence. 

 

 

Stop with your conspiracy theories. Jeez. Give it a rest. Please.

[robblok]

19 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So you think had Covid - 19 never appeared on the scene, the definition of vaccine would still have been altered. You think that well it was just time to modify the definition, it's all just a coincidence. 

 

 

Of course its no coincidence right now vaccines are in the spotlight. What better time to update some descriptions a bit to make them clearer. So no coincidence but no conspiracy either. Im not sure what you are thinking about but all the scientist call these vaccines vaccines. I havent heard anyone saying they are not vaccines. Maybe you listen to much to crazy people.

[EVENKEEL]

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Stop with your conspiracy theories. Jeez. Give it a rest. Please.

Again I expect more.

[Jeffr2]

48 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Again I expect more.

So do we. Using reports about social media is ridiculous. We expect more.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So you think had Covid - 19 never appeared on the scene, the definition of vaccine would still have been altered. You think that well it was just time to modify the definition, it's all just a coincidence. 

 

 

I tell you what I think.

 

Somebody fed you the falsehood surrounding the change in definition of a vaccine, rather than spending a little time checking* if that were true, it suited your own agenda so you posted the falsehood here.

 

* Had you read and inwardly digested the article you linked to you would have realized you were latched onto this falsehood.

 

Now, unable to defend the falsehood with facts, you resort to implying some kind of conspiracy.

 

As I said earlier:

 

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Or so you assert.

 

However, we do have a string of examples of how anti-vaxxers respond to any basis of their objections being proven wrong - they invent another objection.

 

An endless stream of guff.

There is no basis for your claim regarding why the definition was modified, you even provided a link to an article that clearly debunks the claim (which I thanked you for).

 

Rather than dreaming up ever more slippery ‘defenses’ I suggest you examine where you get these demonstrable falsehoods from and why it is you don’t check them before reposting them here.

[EVENKEEL]

31 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I tell you what I think.

 

Somebody fed you the falsehood surrounding the change in definition of a vaccine, rather than spending a little time checking* if that were true, it suited your own agenda so you posted the falsehood here.

 

* Had you read and inwardly digested the article you linked to you would have realized you were latched onto this falsehood.

 

Now, unable to defend the falsehood with facts, you resort to implying some kind of conspiracy.

 

As I said earlier:

 

There is no basis for your claim regarding why the definition was modified, you even provided a link to an article that clearly debunks the claim (which I thanked you for).

 

Rather than dreaming up ever more slippery ‘defenses’ I suggest you examine where you get these demonstrable falsehoods from and why it is you don’t check them before reposting them here.

The definition just like I stated and which yous guys vigorously claimed as false was indeed changed. But you go ahead and believe as you please. 

[Dario]

I can't believe this, there are still people debating if they should get vaccinated or not. 24 pages and running. I simply can't believe this.

Go and get your shots (men, they are given free of charge!) and continue social distancing wearing one, but better two facemasks whenever you are outside of your home and wash your hands all the time, all the time. Get your kids 12+ years old vaccinated as well.

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, Dario said:

I can't believe this, there are still people debating if they should get vaccinated or not. 24 pages and running. I simply can't believe this.

Go and get your shots (men, they are given free of charge!) and continue social distancing wearing one, but better two facemasks whenever you are outside of your home and wash your hands all the time, all the time. Get your kids 12+ years old vaccinated as well.

Right away dad.

[pomchop]

Some of these anti vaxxers sure seem to get their jollies by arguing against thousands upon thousands doctors and scientists who actually have  long extensive detailed first hand experience dealing with real vaccines and real infected patients.  Go to school for multiple years, pass all the tests, get certified as a doctor, work in a real hospital dealing with real patients with ventilators down their throats begging for the shots when it is too late.

 

  Go to any state/city website and see how many daily stories you will find detailing how yet another antivaxxer has begged people to stop the nonsense and get vaccinated.  Read about how many antivaxxers who deride the vaccinations get sick and then beg for infusions of various drugs and treatments created by the very scientists that they mock.

 

Then continue spewing obscure garbage from a few quack doctors or hidden websites that only you the antivaxxer in your infinite wisdom are able to understand.

 

Truly sad.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

The definition just like I stated and which yous guys vigorously claimed as false was indeed changed. But you go ahead and believe as you please. 

Changed according to some nutters on social media. Stunning you fall for this.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

Swiss Policy Research (SPR) is a disinformation website that the University Zurich has said "resort to conspiracy theories."

 

"In 2017 a University of Zurich report on media in Switzerland analyzed "six of the most-discussed 'alternative media'", including SPR, that "resort to conspiracy theories." Daniel Vogler concluded that SPR appears to be a "a pseudoscientific media research project."

 

Other Swiss authorities have made similar allegations. For full analysis see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Policy_Research

 

 

Well there’s a shocking surprise.... not!