Owner of condo asking for ~4 months of rent in damages after 1.3 years of renting - condo is in mint condition - looking for help

[atpeace]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

"Damage to some wood" is a bit of a throw away comment.

It could be minor or it could be a major repair. A scratch in a wooden floor may need to be buffed out or a rare hardwood bench may need to be sanded back and resurfaced. 

4 Months of rent could be as low as 20k, or 200k

 

Not being clear on what's damaged and how much to repair, its a bit hard to offer advice.

 

Damaged wood is a major repair in many instances.  I would bet much more than the wood damage.  Could be wrong but sure sounds like many of my ex tenants.  At least he doesn't expect his security deposit back while breaking the contract.  A current tenant just called me and informed me that he is moving out  next month and apply his deposit to next month.  Hilarious, this happens 50% of the time.  What can landlords do? Not much here nor in America. Tenants can basically do as they want and face little consequences and then complain that they got screwed.  

 

As for what to do.  Think you had already decided and just wanted others to make you feel better about being a dhhjjjck.  If you are being honest, take pictures of the place before departing and she deserves nothing.

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, somtime said:

Thanks everyone for the comments, whether good, bad, or focusing on the wording. All useful for sure.
Please take "mint" with a grain of salt indeed, post written clearly with some one-sided emotions lingering. I won't edit the post or add images, but instead imagine I wrote "in a similar state as when I moved in" and that is the case, purely for the objective of the post. I will take it all with me and decide what to do

Once upon a time I was charged for a huge carpet stain that was under a piece of furniture that couldn't be seen when I moved in, so was not listed as an existing flaw. That was in Australia, where they now have what is called a "rental bond board" - an independent custodian of rental bonds paid to landlords for residential tenancies. Unless something like this is instituted in Thailand, landlord's can pretty much charge what they want from your bond.

 

I once spoke to a senior judge about the situation of rental bonds. He said there is little you can do if the landlord refuses to return it. They can make up any <deleted> they like to justify it. It's even more difficult for foreigners who might need to travel after they move out and can't wait. Court is too slow and too expensive. One needs to make the right judgement of the owners before entering into a contract. A good real estate agent is much better than dealing directly with the owners. I wouldn't rent from a Thai owner unless I'm willing to throw the bond when I leave. You can divide the bond by the months you stay and make an assessment of whether it's worth losing it or not, if that is how it turns out. The ball is always in the landlord's court.

 

 

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

"Damage to some wood" is a bit of a throw away comment.

It could be minor or it could be a major repair. A scratch in a wooden floor may need to be buffed out or a rare hardwood bench may need to be sanded back and resurfaced. 

4 Months of rent could be as low as 20k, or 200k

 

Not being clear on what's damaged and how much to repair, its a bit hard to offer advice.

 

Quote from the OP:

 

"The total sum of damages amounts to a full renovation: close to 4 months of rent. 
Amounts are nice and rounded to hundreds and thousands (of course), 

 

Hundreds of thousands would indicate at least 200,000, so if 4 month's rent is close to that, he must be paying more than 50,000 a month.

 

Must be a nice place with expensive wood.

[couchpotato]

To the "OP"

Without adding more info or photos on the so called damages (before and after), then it is absolutely meaningless for other posters to give you advice (which you don't seem to be taking anyway).

 

You are obviously hiding something from us (ie: it seems like you know that there is damage) so why waste our time and just pay or run away.

 

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

The OP has admitted damage to wood. What he thinks is small may not seem that way to the landlady. She wants the money you should have paid if you maintained the original period. As she probably won't be able to let it for a while?

Agreed. I remember someone complaining that they were being billed a huge amount as their chair with wheels on it had had scratched the wooden flooring. To them it was wear and tear, to the owner the floor was ruined due to scratching. 

[Alwaysthailand]

1. There's her side, your side...and in the middle is the truth.

2. When moving in take detailed pictures and videos...it helps everyone!

3. Pay her and be done.  It's Baht not British pound or US dollars...she isn't asking for a kidney from you.

4.  Up to you....good luck! 

[Bruno123]

  

20 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Quote from the OP:

 

"The total sum of damages amounts to a full renovation: close to 4 months of rent. 
Amounts are nice and rounded to hundreds and thousands (of course), 

 

Hundreds of thousands would indicate at least 200,000, so if 4 month's rent is close to that, he must be paying more than 50,000 a month.

 

Must be a nice place with expensive wood.

You quoted and then misquoted him....nice.

 

Note hundreds and thousands and not hundreds of thousands. Big difference.

[JensenZ]

39 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

  

You quoted and then misquoted him....nice.

 

Note hundreds and thousands and not hundreds of thousands. Big difference.

You are correct. Thanks for correcting me... that was nice of you.

[Golden Triangle]

2 hours ago, bbabythai said:

no one I know does TM30s. 

Surely it is the responsibility of the hotel or new landlord to submit a TM30 to immigration whenever a foreigner stays longer than 24 hours or have I confused that with another different form ? 

[richard_smith237]

Amounts ???

 

4x Rent ???  

60,000 baht damages to a 15,000 baht per month studio?  
or,

280,000 baht damages for a decent condo in the centre of Bangkok ?

 

 

 

[Airalee]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Agreed. I remember someone complaining that they were being billed a huge amount as their chair with wheels on it had had scratched the wooden flooring. To them it was wear and tear, to the owner the floor was ruined due to scratching. 

Yup….I remember that thread.  It was a ฿35k bill to repair the floor.  Can’t believe she didn’t know well enough to put a floor protector down.  Then there was also the guy who was adamant that he shouldn’t lose any of his deposit after he had painted the walls of his unit black.  
 

I would never get into the landlord business here in Thailand.

[riclag]

Go down to the police station and explain what's going on. Show them  all the photos that you took  of the place  ,prior to signing the  rental orlease agreement !

That should solve any disputes between you and the  owner.

 

I had a friend years ago who went through a similar situation! The landlady was squeezing him !

He went down to the station and pleaded with the police  ! He thought at the time his age at 73 ,helped in persuading them to get involved !

 

 If you skip out on her ,she still  has a copy of your passport ! Also worth mentioning she was suppose to by law inform immigration or the police (not sure of what authority) with documentation ,of your living arrangement.

Good luck

Edited August 3, 2021 by riclag

[CharlieH]

Hard to guage this without numbers.Based on whats been said, I would say walk away, block all contact no forwarding address etc. If they want it, fight for it, which will cost them and even if they win, it then has to be collected which is a whole other scenario. Plenty of people have won judgements and got nothing.

 

Learn from it, move on, dont look back. I doubt you will actually hear anymore.

 

[Mike Teavee]

8 hours ago, bbabythai said:

no one I know does TM30s. 

Technically it's your landlord's resposibility to file the TM30 when you move in but it's your responsibility to ensure one is filed so if you ever come to need one (e.g. if you use Jomtien as your Immigration Office you'll need a printout of your TM30 to get your extension) then it will be you who's paying the 800 - 1,600 THB fine.

 

 

[wasabi]

As others have said without pictures all we can do is speculate and give you our own biases. Pics or it didn't happen.

[KhaoYai]

Not taking sides but as you won't go into details of post photos - I'll just say this............

 

As a landlord the wear and tear you + marks on wood you mention would have to be very, very minor when a tenant had only lived there for 1.3 years.

 

I had a couple once that complained bitterly because I charged them for a new sink to replace the one they'd put a dent in.  Yes it was a small dent but I still had to replace the sink - they were the first tenants in a brand new property and were in it for less than a year.

 

You might not realise it but when tenants only stay a short time, a landlord might not even break even if he/she has repairs/repainting to do.

 

Without further information, I don't think anyone can advise you properly.

[Caldera]

Damage to wood could be pretty much anything. The usual wear and tear which shouldn't amount to much in 13 months, scratches, termite damage, ... Wooden floors or furniture,  cheap junk or real quality...

 

Too many unknowns.

[tonray]

I rented in Bangkok for 5 years...never had any "damages to wood". Pics would be helpful....what were you doing that damaged the wood ?

[kingstonkid]

Op go see a lawyer.  The good ones will give you a free consultation.  I have dealt with 2different firms in bkk and had no issues and also found their prices right.  Tilda might be your best bet.

 

Walking away sounds good but you don't know 2things

A. What legal action can they take

B. How well connected are they.

C. What is the true amount they are looking for.

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by kingstonkid

[steven100]

the lounge room when moving in .....

wood damage ....

 

just an example.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by steven100

[wombat]

you could try ''the cheques in the mail''

[BestB]

From moral point of view wear and tear has very broad meaning. as pointed out by someone already.

 

I had a landlord who wanted to charge for painting the walls after I lived there for 3.5 years.

 

I also had tenants claiming that mattress having a huge hole is wear and tear after living for 3 months.

 

yes you can walk away and most likely nothing will happen because to make you pay landlord would have to take you to court 

 

since you mentioned there was minor damage , you can get your own quotes and pay that, if landlord wants her own workers , she can pay the difference.

[utalkin2me]

Tell to pound sand.

 

probably has done this before if everything you say is true. So that may be of help. 
 

“Mai mee ngeung” what can someone do if u don’t have funds? Lock you in your room and prohibit you from traveling? 

[cliveshep]

Tell the LL to go "take a hike" as you are flying out in 2 days back to your home country (wherever that is!) and as others have said just go dark if you honestly think you are being fleeced. There is no way she'll even bother to check if you are flimsy on departure details because airlines won't give out passenger manifests. I assume you actually intend to rent elsewhere or otherwise stay in LOS? Take pictures before you go in case you wind up needing proofs. And next time do a proper video survey with pics of any damage however slight BEFORE you sign up or pay money. Lots of scams about, ever rented a jet-ski? Best don't!

[cliveshep]

8 minutes ago, steven100 said:

the lounge room when moving in .....

wood damage ....

 

just an example.

 

 

"What's wrong with that, clearly fair wear and tear? Give me back my deposit please!" 

 

And that is NOT the same place is it?

[atpeace]

10 minutes ago, BestB said:

From moral point of view wear and tear has very broad meaning. as pointed out by someone already.

 

I had a landlord who wanted to charge for painting the walls after I lived there for 3.5 years.

 

I also had tenants claiming that mattress having a huge hole is wear and tear after living for 3 months.

 

yes you can walk away and most likely nothing will happen because to make you pay landlord would have to take you to court 

 

since you mentioned there was minor damage , you can get your own quotes and pay that, if landlord wants her own workers , she can pay the difference.

Good point.  What is normal?  I think anything that was broken, punctured, scratched, soaked isn't normal.  If the counter is scratched by a knife for example, the tenant needs to fix.  If the counter top fades, this is normal.   Over a few year lease it is normal for a tenant to break things but the tenant needs to fix or the landlord will charge the tenant.  That is my opinion but definitely see how someone could justify it is normal to break things.  Wrong IMO.

[Scouse123]

Walk away, forget the lawyer, they will cost you more and achieve nothing, no matter what they promise you initially..

 

Accept the loss and learn from it.

 

Don't hand over any more money. If confrontation comes keep the photos as proof for future action.

 

Never sign a document saying you will pay for damage over and above your deposit, it's way too open ended.

 

I think she is bluffing if there is only wear and tear.

[Scouse123]

26 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Good point.  What is normal?  I think anything that was broken, punctured, scratched, soaked isn't normal.  If the counter is scratched by a knife for example, the tenant needs to fix.  If the counter top fades, this is normal.   Over a few year lease it is normal for a tenant to break things but the tenant needs to fix or the landlord will charge the tenant.  That is my opinion but definitely see how someone could justify it is normal to break things.  Wrong IMO.

Fading, bumps and scratches are wear and tear. Items that are broken is classed as ' Damage '

[BestB]

19 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Fading, bumps and scratches are wear and tear. Items that are broken is classed as ' Damage '

There are different scratches to be called wear and tear . I can drag a fridge across wooden floor leaving scratches , this most certainly would not be wear and tear when scratches are deep enough to go through a few layers of ( can not recall what is called )

[itsari]

If you admit to the damage and are not agreeing with the estimate for the work to repair  then get a engineer to give a price and see how it compares.