Attempted Murder at the in ground water tank

[Grusa]

On 8/20/2021 at 9:41 AM, wavodavo said:

I have been a pest exterminator for 55 years and that is a little story that I tell my customers......You didnt believe me .. did you  ?????

I admit to finding it hard to believe.......that's why I asked for a reference!

 

Everything Mr Google comes up with, tells me they don't like electricity. There are even electric mats to repel them.

[chalawaan]

On 8/17/2021 at 9:28 AM, MrJ2U said:

Tank to store your water.

 

A pump in-between the tank and house will increase the water pressure.  

Every single house in our baan has a tank, usually above ground, and pump. Likewise in-ground septic tanks which need pumping out every whenever (three or five years) I thought it was just how its done in suburban Thailand. We still get water if the pump is off, but it's a bit tame. 

[lopburi3]

15 minutes ago, Grusa said:

I admit to finding it hard to believe.......that's why I asked for a reference!

 

Everything Mr Google comes up with, tells me they don't like electricity. There are even electric mats to repel them.

They may not like a shock but they sure do like hot wires - have lost dishwashers to them at least five times.  Cars are frequent target and have them eat through electric run in attic several times until replaced with larger wire which not getting hot does not seem to attract them as much.  Dogs don't make cats a full time option although cats often take up temporary residence on roof so suspect they help to keep the higher level rats under control.  

[Steve&mem]

4 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Most still need storage tanks, due to drought or opposite for me more often very heavy rain causes blockages to our town water, that comes from the klong, brown <deleted> and blockages, I can simply turn off the town water till it is running clear again or mains have been unblocked somewhere up the line. but I would say any damage as shown here to wiring would knock my RDC off immediately.  

Not it will not switch off the RDC. its only making the connection across the neutral line, there is no ground cable in there just 3 cables connecting from the micro switch as it shows in the diagram I posted earlier.  

 

I have edited this because it doesn't show 3 wires as I said, but that what they have is, Black is common, Brown cuts the power in the down position of the float, and Blue cuts the power in the up position of the float

[lopburi3]

20 minutes ago, Steve&mem said:

Not it will not switch off the RDC. its only making the connection across the neutral line, there is no ground cable in there just 3 cables connecting from the micro switch as it shows in the diagram I posted earlier.  

 

I have edited this because it doesn't show 3 wires as I said, but that what they have is, Black is common, Brown cuts the power in the down position of the float, and Blue cuts the power in the up position of the float

RCD I will assume.  That does not require any ground wire to save a life - ground trips breaker without RCD - RCD trips current with an imbalance between neutral and live (you become the ground).  A real lifesaver many times over.

[Steve&mem]

Well my breaker didn't  trip,  is there a difference between the two ????

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, chalawaan said:

Every single house in our baan has a tank, usually above ground, and pump. Likewise in-ground septic tanks which need pumping out every whenever (three or five years) I thought it was just how its done in suburban Thailand. We still get water if the pump is off, but it's a bit tame. 

In our village its a luxury.

 

Mostly the locals depend on the village tank and gravity.  It's very low pressure.

 

We also have our indoor water/washing machine water filtered.  We separate tanks and pumps for that.  High psi to push the water through the carbon filters.  

 

Depending on the season the water can be pretty dirty.

[lopburi3]

12 minutes ago, Steve&mem said:

Well my breaker didn't  trip,  is there a difference between the two ????

A breaker trips on overload (16A or such) which happens when live wire is grounded or you pull too much power for the breaker - so a 3 wire appliance will trip by overload without anyone touching if properly grounded.  An RCD trips on 25ma or so (very low current to save your life) when you touch live and make a path to ground (bare feet or such).  It can and will save your life when you touch a live wire or improperly/non grounded appliance.  The RCD normally is attached to a normal type breaker and trips it when there is more than 25ma or so difference between the hot/neutral wire - so if you touch the wire in OP it should trip RCD before you die (but you will still get a good shock and not want to do again).

[Crossy]

12 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

so if you touch the wire in OP it should trip RCD before you die (but you will still get a good shock and not want to do again).

 

This is important to understand, you still get a nice solid whallop. It's very possible that the current wasn't actually enough to trip your RCD (but go and press the "Test" button anyway).

[Steve&mem]

47 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

This is important to understand, you still get a nice solid whallop. It's very possible that the current wasn't actually enough to trip your RCD (but go and press the "Test" button anyway).

Just dun that, everything OK.

I was kneeling on damp ground at the time and I think it was more than a wallop.

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, Steve&mem said:

I was kneeling on damp ground at the time and I think it was more than a wallop.

 

Assuming your RCD is correctly wired then we can safely assume that the current which passed through your body was less than 30mA or lasted less than 30ms. A 30mA shock hurts, a LOT!

 

I've had numerous shocks of various voltages over the years and, to be honest, I don't recall any of them operating the protective device before I removed myself (not necessarily voluntarily) from the source. 

 

Most of the times our RCDs operate they cut the power BEFORE anyone gets a shock.

 

I would be tempted to investigate just where your pump system is getting its power source, is it definitely being fed by that RCD?

[driver52]

11 hours ago, brianthainess said:

very heavy rain

how much rain do you get on average in Thailand? do you think it's feasible to collect rain water ie from the roof and use that instead of having a mains connection?

as a single guy say, not got daughters taking showers all the time anymore lol

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, driver52 said:

how much rain do you get on average in Thailand? do you think it's feasible to collect rain water ie from the roof and use that instead of having a mains connection?

as a single guy say, not got daughters taking showers all the time anymore lol

Do you take a monthly bath?  ????  You need to use a lot of water in Thailand to keep cool and fresh unless living at top of mountain, and smelling like it.  There are long dry spells each year.  It is done on some farms but also with wells/ponds but not feasible for normal house as would require many, many tanks to store water and probably more than a home roof could supply.  Mostly roof water is used for drinking - not for general use.  That said suspect collection of rain water in ponds could help a lot if properly done and there is a real need for it on a large scale.

[driver52]

14 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Mostly roof water is used for drinking - not for general use

shouldn't that be the other way around? I don't mind buying a load of bottled water for drinking and cooking, I think it's cheap enough?

[lopburi3]

11 minutes ago, driver52 said:

shouldn't that be the other way around? I don't mind buying a load of bottled water for drinking and cooking, I think it's cheap enough?

Drinking water from roof is traditional method (stored in clay jars)  - suspect still being used by many farmers who do not have extra money for bottled water, which is a relatively new thing here.  But agree for you and I bottled water is reasonable for drinking (although use RO tap water here in Bangkok).  

[sometimewoodworker]

11 hours ago, driver52 said:

how much rain do you get on average in Thailand? do you think it's feasible to collect rain water ie from the roof and use that instead of having a mains connection?

as a single guy say, not got daughters taking showers all the time anymore lol

Easily done if you have the storage capacity, a small roof of 100 square metres will get from 102 cubic meters of rain in the dryer parts to 150 cubic metres in the peninsula. 
 

our storage is 85 hectolitres, that will last more than a month with daily showers for 2 and the washing machine also getting an average of 1 daily use.
 

Our roof area will get about 500 cubic metres in an average year, so if we could store that ourselves then we have over 4 years use falling each year. One of our ponds has a volume of about 1,500 cubic metres but that is only used for fish to poop in and for watering the garden ???? 

[Steve&mem]

16 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Assuming your RCD is correctly wired then we can safely assume that the current which passed through your body was less than 30mA or lasted less than 30ms. A 30mA shock hurts, a LOT!

 

I've had numerous shocks of various voltages over the years and, to be honest, I don't recall any of them operating the protective device before I removed myself (not necessarily voluntarily) from the source. 

 

Most of the times our RCDs operate they cut the power BEFORE anyone gets a shock.

 

I would be tempted to investigate just where your pump system is getting its power source, is it definitely being fed by that RCD?

Yes the 63amp RCBO 30 mA is covering that line, the cable was on top of the plastic lid so was insulated form the ground, I just made the connection but not for long. the only other protection was 10 amp MCB.

The Thai electrician (really just a farmer in our area), they can be a real nightmare if your not watching all the time, A lot of these guys don't have an education, for them, if it work's then its OK, health and safety is not in their vocabulary.  We found that the old cable (Live and Neutral only) which was single strand in yellow pipe and was not a continuous run but bits of cable that were joined with pvc tape. I have now replaced all the cables in a new HDPE conduit.

 

[Saanim]

14 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

how much rain do you get on average in Thailand? do you think it's feasible to collect rain water ie from the roof and use that instead of having a mains connection?

Normally, for a half year you get the water free from the roof. And in the deep South even longer...    

[Bundooman]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:18 PM, tonray said:

Exactly what I was thinking...sleep with one eye open mate

If she can eat that stuff - don't go for a blow-job!

[Steve&mem]

On 8/23/2021 at 7:07 PM, Bundooman said:

If she can eat that stuff - don't go for a blow-job!

Na, I just make sure she's taken her false teeth out

[Saanim]

Against my previous claim to throw all such problems on rats, I just experienced similar defect.  Seeing that the insulation tape was devoured slowly by small ants (so many found around).

Then, the not very professionally installation to outside lamp on a fence pylon has been further affected with the rain, resulting in a short circuit. The wet tape is obviously a deli for the ants... 

 

 

 

[johng]

12 minutes ago, Saanim said:

the not very professionally installation

Looks almost as bad as the pedestrian overpass near me I don't dare touch the stainless steel handrails !!!!