Chinese-made vaccines not effective against Delta variant after one dose

[Gottfrid]

7 hours ago, fredscats said:

So thats it then???   Delta IS the most deadly strain  300% more deadly infection transmission

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/scientist-delta-variant-more-transmissible-not-more-deadly/

 

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/elisabeth-nieshalla/dr-and-sen-rand-paul-covid-delta-more-transmissible-far-less-deadly

 

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/08/just-how-dangerous-is-the-delta-variant/

 

I am pretty sure you can find information that supports your quote, but here is 3 that support my comment.

In the end it´s just to wait and see what is right or wrong. I bet my 2 cent on that it´s in reality a weaker strain, just more infectious. As is the usual development of a virus with time.

[cyril sneer]

4 hours ago, jazzdog32095 said:

Chinese are really good at producing and spreading deadly virus's, but producing vaccines worth a **** , not so much.

They still haven’t said sorry too

 

Won’t be long before another coronavirus comes from there, who knows how deadly the next one will be 

[jazzdog32095]

26 minutes ago, cyril sneer said:

They still haven’t said sorry too

 

Won’t be long before another coronavirus comes from there, who knows how deadly the next one will be 

Always pushing the boundaries. Currency manipulation, copywrite infringement, stealing intellectual property, hacking, Taiwan, Hong Kong, South China Sea and now WMD in the form of Covid. Yet no country draws a line. Twenty years ????????? 

[rabas]

4 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/scientist-delta-variant-more-transmissible-not-more-deadly/

 

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/elisabeth-nieshalla/dr-and-sen-rand-paul-covid-delta-more-transmissible-far-less-deadly

 

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2021/08/just-how-dangerous-is-the-delta-variant/

 

I am pretty sure you can find information that supports your quote, but here is 3 that support my comment.

In the end it´s just to wait and see what is right or wrong. I bet my 2 cent on that it´s in reality a weaker strain, just more infectious. As is the usual development of a virus with time.

You are quoting media and politicians.  The first sentence on your first reference:

 

"LifeSiteNews has been permanently banned on YouTube. Click HERE to sign up to receive emails when we add to our video library."

 

According to the most reliable (non media) data, Delta is the most infectious, severe, and deadly strain so far causing ~180% more hospitalizations and ~137% more deaths than the original strain. It is worse in all respects than the terrible Alpha variant.

 

WIKI: Variants of SARS-CoV-2  Delta is the all red box one.

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by rabas

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

You are quoting media and politicians.  The first sentence on your first reference:

 

"LifeSiteNews has been permanently banned on YouTube. Click HERE to sign up to receive emails when we add to our video library."

 

According to the most reliable (non media) data, Delta is the most infectious, severe, and deadly strain so far causing ~180% more hospitalizations and ~137% more deaths than the original strain. It is worse in all respects than the terrible Alpha variant.

 

WIKI: Variants of SARS-CoV-2  Delta is the all red box one.

 

You see here is a perfect example. Go back and read what I quoted. That poster said 300% and you are dealing with 150 - 200%. So, what is true?

[Eibot]

CP is heavily invested in the Sinovac vaccination. Hence they are pushed so hard in Thailand. 

 

Also, Thailand is making their own vaccine, they don't like to see money slip out of the country.

 

It's all about the money, but what's new. 

[Saltire]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:11 PM, khunPer said:

getting Sinovac/AZ seems in my view like an fair solution right now.

I sincerely hope you are right, as this is my option, not much alternative choice either.

[metisdead]

Posts with a link to a questionable source have been removed as well as the replies. 

 

Troll posts have been removed.  

 

A post with unsubstantiated claims has been removed as being conspiracy post. 

[placnx]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:03 PM, Antonymous said:

So many studies with dubious sponsors showing conflicting data on Covid vax effectiveness. Meanwhile in the real world …

 

Israel launched its national vaccination campaign in December last year and has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, with 80 percent of citizens above the age of 12 fully inoculated. Israel vaccinated its population almost exclusively with Pfizer, supposedly the most effective vax available.

 

Yet...

 

“In early July, with citizens over the age of 60 almost completely vaccinated, Israeli scientists began observing a worrisome rise in infections—if not in severe illness and death—among the double-vaccinated.”

 

“Israel reported 9,831 new diagnosed cases on Tuesday, a hairbreadth away from the worst daily figure ever recorded in the country—10,000—at the peak of the third wave. More than 350 people have died of the disease in the first three weeks of August. In a Sunday press conference, the directors of seven public hospitals announced that they could no longer admit any coronavirus patients. With 670 COVID-19 patients requiring critical care, their wards are overflowing and staff are at breaking point."

 

“I don’t want to frighten you,” coronavirus czar Dr. Salman Zarka told the Israeli parliament this week. “But this is the data. Unfortunately, the numbers don’t lie.”

 

“Fully vaccinated people with weakened immune systems appeared particularly vulnerable to the aggressive Delta variant.”

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ultra-vaccinated-israels-debacle-is-a-dire-warning-to-america

 

That last sentence is the key in my opinion. As I’ve said repeatedly in these forums, we should first and foremost concentrate attention on getting ourselves healthy and boosting our immune systems – whether we want to be vaccinated or not. How to do that? You can find useful information by searching for I-MASK+ Prevention Protocol for COVID-19 in Google.

It's been known for a while that many people with weakened immune systems can have low antibodies for Covid after two jabs of mRNA, but for many a third jab can give excellent results. 

[3NUMBAS]

yes as usefull as a chocolate teapot

[watthong]

This kind of topic "investigating" this kind of data is getting long in the tooth, and seems to exist only for the sake of those anti-vaxxers/chinese bashers who need their daily fix, and to stir up the covid dis-information swamp (yawn.)

 

Even scientists get weary these days, struggling to keep up with the self-perpetuating mass hysteria. A self-licking ice cream, if there ever was one.

Edited August 27, 2021 by watthong

[248900_1469958220]

19 minutes ago, watthong said:

This kind of topic "investigating" this kind of data is getting long in the tooth, and seems to exist only for the sake of those anti-vaxxers/chinese bashers who need their daily fix, and to stir up the covid dis-information swamp (yawn.)

 

Even scientists get weary these days, struggling to keep up with the self-perpetuating mass hysteria. A self-licking ice cream, if there ever was one.

Very sorry certain studies disturb the  little fiefdom in your head. I for one am interested in ALL information about these NEW vaccines. If you only want to read positive news start your own newspaperm sit down with your morning coffee finger the pages. I am happy I have not bothered with Sinovac or Sinopharm.. I am following very closely this ever changing story. 

[Scott]

On 8/24/2021 at 10:03 PM, Antonymous said:

So many studies with dubious sponsors showing conflicting data on Covid vax effectiveness. Meanwhile in the real world …

 

Israel launched its national vaccination campaign in December last year and has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, with 80 percent of citizens above the age of 12 fully inoculated. Israel vaccinated its population almost exclusively with Pfizer, supposedly the most effective vax available.

 

Yet...

 

“In early July, with citizens over the age of 60 almost completely vaccinated, Israeli scientists began observing a worrisome rise in infections—if not in severe illness and death—among the double-vaccinated.”

 

“Israel reported 9,831 new diagnosed cases on Tuesday, a hairbreadth away from the worst daily figure ever recorded in the country—10,000—at the peak of the third wave. More than 350 people have died of the disease in the first three weeks of August. In a Sunday press conference, the directors of seven public hospitals announced that they could no longer admit any coronavirus patients. With 670 COVID-19 patients requiring critical care, their wards are overflowing and staff are at breaking point."

 

“I don’t want to frighten you,” coronavirus czar Dr. Salman Zarka told the Israeli parliament this week. “But this is the data. Unfortunately, the numbers don’t lie.”

 

“Fully vaccinated people with weakened immune systems appeared particularly vulnerable to the aggressive Delta variant.”

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ultra-vaccinated-israels-debacle-is-a-dire-warning-to-america

 

That last sentence is the key in my opinion. As I’ve said repeatedly in these forums, we should first and foremost concentrate attention on getting ourselves healthy and boosting our immune systems – whether we want to be vaccinated or not. How to do that? You can find useful information by searching for I-MASK+ Prevention Protocol for COVID-19 in Google.

Please do not post false or misleading information.  You provided a Google source which contains false information.  With regard to your source this is what was reported by the Scientist:

The editors of Frontiers in Pharmacology have taken down an article about the use of the antiparasitic drug ivermectin in COVID-19 patients. The paper, which was written by members of an organization called the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), had been provisionally accepted and posted in abstract form by the journal in January, but was ultimately rejected this Monday (March 1). The editors determined that it contained unsubstantiated claims and violated the journal’s editorial policies.

 

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/frontiers-removes-controversial-ivermectin-paper-pre-publication-68505

 

[morrobay]

Contracting and beating covid during first waves provides better protection than two Pfizer jabs.         https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-covid-delta-variant-pfizer-protection-past-case-20210827-kbyqgjpsyvc5rfzq6k4tdfejga-story.html#ed=rss_www.nydailynews.com/arcio/rss/category/news/

[fusion58]

The Sinovac Company and/or its shareholders are probably looking for a way to sue the Thai Enquirer for defamation as we speak. ????

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

Contracting and beating covid during first waves provides better protection than two Pfizer jabs.         https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-covid-delta-variant-pfizer-protection-past-case-20210827-kbyqgjpsyvc5rfzq6k4tdfejga-story.html#ed=rss_www.nydailynews.com/arcio/rss/category/news/

Yes, it provides better protection against contracting it again. So, do you think that the best way to defeat covid is to get covid? Do you understand that while contractinig and beating covid may provide better protection than 2 Pfizer jabs, contracting and dying from Covid not so much.

[morrobay]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Yes, it provides better protection against contracting it again. So, do you think that the best way to defeat covid is to get covid? Do you understand that while contractinig and beating covid may provide better protection than 2 Pfizer jabs, contracting and dying from Covid not so much.

 Take it or leave it. That's all the news fit to print. You can make up all the scenarios you want

 

[HeijoshinCool]

.

 

"Chinese-made vaccines not effective against Delta variant after one dose..."

 

I told my Chinese housekeeper this and she just looked at me like I was an idiot....

[steven100]

3 minutes ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

 

"Chinese-made vaccines not effective against Delta variant after one dose..."

 

I told my Chinese housekeeper this and she just looked at me like I was an idiot....

sack her

[HeijoshinCool]

Just now, steven100 said:

sack her

.

Try to think outside the box....

[steven100]

1 minute ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

Try to think outside the box....

thank's... I will.   Now i'm booked for Pfizer jabs next week.  Did you get a jab already ? 

[HeijoshinCool]

10 minutes ago, steven100 said:

thank's... I will.   Now i'm booked for Pfizer jabs next week.  Did you get a jab already ? 

.

I took a jab at you and you took it well....

[HeijoshinCool]

.

 

I like my humor the way I like my martinis....

 

Not everyone likes my martinis.

[rabas]

2 hours ago, morrobay said:

Contracting and beating covid during first waves provides better protection than two Pfizer jabs.         https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-covid-delta-variant-pfizer-protection-past-case-20210827-kbyqgjpsyvc5rfzq6k4tdfejga-story.html#ed=rss_www.nydailynews.com/arcio/rss/category/news/

Here is a link to the study from this Bloomberg article. Graph courtesy Bloomberg. Note the large peak in the middle which was driven to zero by Israel's Pfizer campaign.

 

The paper showed 1) Existing natural immunity, from middle peak infections, was much stronger than Pfizer against Delta, third peak.  2) When natural immunity from earlier infections was included, the effect was much less pronounced. They suggest this means natural immunity also wanes over time.

 

But, there are additional factors including different SARS-2 variants. The only reasonable conclusion is that we need more and better vaccines. Lower quality vaccines like Sinovac is not the weaponry needed in the future.

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by rabas

[morrobay]

22 minutes ago, rabas said:

Here is a link to the study from this Bloomberg article. Graph courtesy Bloomberg. Note the large peak in the middle which was driven to zero by Israel's Pfizer campaign.

 

The paper showed 1) Existing natural immunity, from middle peak infections, was much stronger than Pfizer against Delta given during the middle peak.  2) When natural immunity from earlier infections was included, the effect was much less pronounced. They suggest this means natural immunity also wanes over time.

 

But, there are additional factors including different SARS-2 variants. The only reasonable conclusion is that we need more and better vaccines. Lower quality vaccines like Sinovac is not the weaponry needed in the future.

 

And as you know the vaccines only produce antibodies that target the spike protein. Where as immunity from infection produces about 25 different antibodies to those other targeted proteins on the virus. So the virus by natural selection will have mutations going forward  only  on the spike protein to evade the current vaccines. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by morrobay

[rabas]

18 minutes ago, morrobay said:

And as you know the vaccines only produce antibodies that target the spike protein. Where as immunity from infection produces about 25 different antibodies to those other targeted proteins on the virus. So the virus by natural selection will have mutations going forward  only  on the spike protein to evade the current vaccines. 

Interesting points, however spikes play a major role in both natural and vaccine immune responses. Nature also heavily targets the spike because 1) it is the controlling factor in the infection process and 2) it is the most exposed surface. Here is a paper from Cell:Medicine supporting the robustness of natural immunity. It also shows the spike plays a major role.

 

So true, but the war is not over yet.

 

Briefly rooting for humans, Pfizer and Moderna use a unique patented spike design with switchable configurations that increases the immune response. [reference] Nature can't do this, and there is more tech in the pipeline. In the end, vaccines may be more useful for powerful but shorter responses. And of course, they prevent you from getting infected.

 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, rabas said:

Interesting points, however spikes play a major role in both natural and vaccine immune responses. Nature also heavily targets the spike because 1) it is the controlling factor in the infection process and 2) it is the most exposed surface. Here is a paper from Cell:Medicine supporting the robustness of natural immunity. It also shows the spike plays a major role.

 

So true, but the war is not over yet.

 

Briefly rooting for humans, Pfizer and Moderna use a unique patented spike design with switchable configurations that increases the immune response. [reference] Nature can't do this, and there is more tech in the pipeline. In the end, vaccines may be more useful for powerful but shorter responses. And of course, they prevent you from getting infected.

 

Interesting study here from Israel conducted in one of the most highly COVID-19–vaccinated countries in the world

 

On yesterday's controversial preprint regarding potential advantage of natural covid infection vs vaccine-induced immunity

 

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but no infection parties, please

 

The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19.

 

The study demonstrates the power of the human immune system, but infectious disease experts emphasized that this vaccine and others for COVID-19 nonetheless remain highly protective against severe disease and death.

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

[rabas]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Interesting study here from Israel conducted in one of the most highly COVID-19–vaccinated countries in the world

 

On yesterday's controversial preprint regarding potential advantage of natural covid infection vs vaccine-induced immunity

 

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but no infection parties, please

 

The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19.

 

The study demonstrates the power of the human immune system, but infectious disease experts emphasized that this vaccine and others for COVID-19 nonetheless remain highly protective against severe disease and death.

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

That was morrobay's starting point to the discussion. From your link:

 

"The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant ... than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. "

 

The very strong natural immunity was from people infected with Alpha during Israel's second wave. Much less from earlier infections.

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, morrobay said:

 Take it or leave it. That's all the news fit to print. You can make up all the scenarios you want

 

What scenarios? This is a basic statistics.  It boils down to a simple issue: Is it better to contract covid in order to beat covid? Yes or no?

Edited August 28, 2021 by placeholder