Heartbroken daughter desperate to fly bedridden dad home from Thailand

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, djayz said:

27 thousand quid for an operation!?!? Surely that must be THB 27,000, no? 

 

No

[The Fugitive]

1 hour ago, ignis said:

Health insurance companies want your money, hate to pay any claim

 

Had Health insurance many years ago, had to go to Hospital large kidney stone, Insurance refused to pay - reason anything to do with kidney's is related to being Diabetic, so had to pay myself. and have done for all the years since then + been to hospital a good few times since...

 

Note..  diabetic coma = blood sugar over 600 or under 60......  myself built in body alarm under 65 get the shakes + cold sweat [yep a good few times over the years]  over 450 feel very unwell [highest I have been is 530 in 2015]  since then 100% vital to check your BS at least every day + if you feel strange or unwell

Couldn’t be a truer statement as proved in your second paragraph!

 

Good advice re blood glucose levels. A testing machine may be a good investment.

 

I ‘hit the deck’ recently for the first time. Fortunately, was in the waiting area with my M-I-L at Provincial Hospital at the time. My Blood Glucose level had fallen to 42. Never been investigated. When I feel shaky and sickly I take high sugar drinks which seem to sort it.  

[GinBoy2]

22 minutes ago, Whale said:

The quote was anywhere between 100K and 140K GBP. Having read the description of his many conditions in the gofundme I can't see how they can move him without the air ambulance. 

Dying can be expensive..

I don't think any, probably divorced aging white guy flying to Thailand to relive his youth with Thai maidens thinks about death.

 

But then again there is the sticky issue that you probably have children, grandchildren who might want a say in this.

 

And I don't think many of us want to die alone,

I think human instinct wants us to be around loved ones, hard to do if you're stuck thousands of miles from home and family, and a GoFundme account is all you got

[bobandyson]

That poor guy in Khorat a few months on got around 2,000 pounds on a Gofundme page the last time I looked.

He was about the same age and was stuck with hospital bills and his family back home trying to raise funds.

 

This is one reason I want to see my final days back home in the UK.

I don't fear death. It's the dying part I don't care for........especially if it's long, painful, slow and costly and inconveniences family.

[smedly]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

No, I am sure that would be the cost involved, heart surgery is expensive even in Thailand.

I wonder how they think they will pay the the ongoing care given to him since the pacemaker.

Even if they can get him on a flight for medical evacuation that will cost minimum 50,000 GBP , hope the family have deep pockets. 

He is bedridden, has paralysis, vascular dementia.

Hate to sound hard, however seems like poor investment, for a very questionable quality of life, can he express his needs or the family just reacting at an emotional level?

As hard as it sounds I actually agree with you.

 

Better to have him live his last days out here in Thailand perhaps in a care home or hire a nurse 

 

I can't help thinking when I read these stories that Thai private hospitals which are businesses dream stuff up to gouge money - I do not trust them - gets a pacemaker and suddenly wakens up from a coma - sounds more like he was sedated.

 

But anyway - another sad story

 

Thailand should allow foreigners living here to join the public health system for an anual fee - but that will never happen because the private sector rules

[khunPer]

Another sad story.

 

If you want to live your dream-life in Thailand, you need to make a decision, whether you can, and will, spend the money for a large enough health insurance, or you have enough savings for self-insurance; or accept your fate, if something serious happens - and tell eventual family about your decision - it seems like to many caring relatives, too often needs to open Go Fund Me-pages.

 

If you cannot accept those terms, you should seriously consider if living your dream-life in Thailand is at all a right decision, not only for you, but also for your caring relatives.

[RichardColeman]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Due to him being abroad it took a few days for the family to pay £27,000 for the operation and get paperwork signed by his daughter, Trina Sanders who lives in Birkenhead.

sounds like a hospital hostage and ransom to me

[KannikaP]

4 hours ago, tonray said:

That would have been all well and good except for the daughter's GoFundMe page already set up

Nobody is forced to contribute.

[James105]

Quote

The 74-year-old who grew up in Braintree, Essex, now suffers with chronic renal failure, Parkinson's, CKD and vascular dementia.

That would be enough for me to hit the off button.    I'm cool with being dead at some point, but I am not cool with the slow, painful, expensive, torturous, dying part.  I remain envious of my former pet dog who was in the fortunate position (as a dog) to be put painlessly and mercifully out of his misery when it became clear he was in pain, his life was coming to an end and there was nothing that could be done to change that. 

[NancyL]

From the photos in the news story, it looks like he was relatively fit when he came here 15 years ago and probably had no pre-existing conditions.  That was the time to take out a good international health insurance policy -- one that can't drop you as you age or file claims, but understandably will increase rates as you enter higher age band.  Not a Thai policy -- those are cheaper for younger people, but they have upper age limits, increase rates if you make claims or drop you outright.

 

Hubby was age 59 when we arrived and getting a comprehensive health insurance policy was a top priority.  He had no re-existing conditions.  The insurance agent had a chuckle when Hubby filled out that part on the form about prior hospitalizations by listing "birth".  Took the agent a moment to realize Hubby was talking about his own birth as the only time he'd been hospitalized.

 

Now Hubby is age 73, has filed claims with this international health insurance company for several hospital stays and procedures, takes meds for some conditions that many old guys have and yes, his rates have increased as he has aged, but anything he needs is covered because he took the policy when he was young and healthy.  And while the annual premium is high, it's nowhere like the money this family said the hospital needed for their father's pacemaker.

[rtco]

6 hours ago, ignis said:

Just ignore insurance ? some of us have to

 

If he was a diabetic already then insurance would have been no use, as this would be classed as a pre existing condition therefore not covered.

Yes some of us do have to ... mine was due to being conned out of my healthy pension when the investment fund was found to be a Ponzi scheme ... we don't have a choice

[Dogmatix]

If he got back to the UK for treatment, the NHS would send him a bill, if they knew he had just returned from a more than 6 month stay abroad.  You have to re-establish residence for 6 months before regaining the right to free treatment on the NHS.  But illegal refugeess, asylum seekers etc are entitled to it immediately. 

[Nojohndoe]

5 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

That is why it can be advantageous to have  the equivalent of an Advanced Care Directive in place with knowledge from family that such a document exists, 

I know a few people who have such and one who died despite intensive attempts including surgery performed in an emergency scenario. Belated information received after the fact did not remove liability for the costs. I have often wondered if a large tattoo in English and Thai across the chest stating " No Resuscitation" might help? At least the Medics might consider it wise to check?

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

If he got back to the UK for treatment, the NHS would send him a bill, if they knew he had just returned from a more than 6 month stay abroad.  You have to re-establish residence for 6 months before regaining the right to free treatment on the NHS.  But illegal refugeess, asylum seekers etc are entitled to it immediately. 

He might be entitled to palliative care...

• palliative care services provided by a registered palliative care charity or a community interest company.

[RJRS1301]

2 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

I know a few people who have such and one who died despite intensive attempts including surgery performed in an emergency scenario. Belated information received after the fact did not remove liability for the costs. I have often wondered if a large tattoo in English and Thai across the chest stating " No Resuscitation" might help? At least the Medics might consider it wise to check?

Of course the Advance Directive is not foolproof especially in an emergency situation, where saving life is the paramount objective. Also they are not legally recognised in some jurisdictions, however to have one in place allows relatives and well meaning friends aware of your intentions when you had the capacity to make such decisions 

[Upnotover]

18 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

If he got back to the UK for treatment, the NHS would send him a bill, if they knew he had just returned from a more than 6 month stay abroad.  You have to re-establish residence for 6 months before regaining the right to free treatment on the NHS.  But illegal refugeess, asylum seekers etc are entitled to it immediately. 

Not so.  If he can demonstrate that his return is intended to be permanent then he gets free NHS treatment from day one.  I think in this chaps case that ought not be difficult.

[Nickelbeer]

Odd that an impoverished country like the Philippines can provide a National Health Insurance Program, while Thailand cannot.  Some things beggar belief.

[chilly07]

8 hours ago, tonray said:

Very sad but again another case of thinking you can just ignore insurance and jump on a plane to avail yourself of NHS care when you get sick. A lesson for some of us here I hope.

Seems to me he had a prexisting condition which wouldn't be covered

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

From the photos in the news story, it looks like he was relatively fit when he came here 15 years ago and probably had no pre-existing conditions.  That was the time to take out a good international health insurance policy -- one that can't drop you as you age or file claims, but understandably will increase rates as you enter higher age band.  Not a Thai policy -- those are cheaper for younger people, but they have upper age limits, increase rates if you make claims or drop you outright.

 

Hubby was age 59 when we arrived and getting a comprehensive health insurance policy was a top priority.  He had no re-existing conditions.  The insurance agent had a chuckle when Hubby filled out that part on the form about prior hospitalizations by listing "birth".  Took the agent a moment to realize Hubby was talking about his own birth as the only time he'd been hospitalized.

 

Now Hubby is age 73, has filed claims with this international health insurance company for several hospital stays and procedures, takes meds for some conditions that many old guys have and yes, his rates have increased as he has aged, but anything he needs is covered because he took the policy when he was young and healthy.  And while the annual premium is high, it's nowhere like the money this family said the hospital needed for their father's pacemaker.

You are right, but unfortunately for some a well covering international health insurance is out of the question for financial reasons - or priorities are different for younger healthy folks - or the otherwise cleverly opened health insurance becomes impossible to keep by time due to insurance rate increases and/or decrease of incoming funds; I know people that gave up on their health insurance due to lack of money, even some ending up with "go fund me"-solution.

 

Everything might be in perfect order when beginning living the dream-life in "paradise" - including a reasonable good health insurance one can keep for life - and when conditions change, for whatever reason, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to move back home, or just not on the wish-list at all, so some rather takes the risk, or just needs to take the risk because thay have no alternatives; the sad thing is when relatives that cares for you, end up paying for your failed wishful dream-life.

[John Drake]

7 hours ago, tonray said:

That would have been all well and good except for the daughter's GoFundMe page already set up

Unless someone is contributing to that page, why should they care?

[3NUMBAS]

retirees never consider the effects of old age and health insurance

[Whale]

24 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

retirees never consider the effects of old age and health insurance

Some of us do and have.

[RJRS1301]

28 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

retirees never consider the effects of old age and health insurance

I think that is a gross generalisation , I beg to differ.

 

[Screaming]

And this is the reason that the Thai Immigration is requiring expats to have health insurance. I do feel sorry for him but his predicament is by his own choosing. We as expats are being critically reviewed because of the few that do not pay their medical bills.

[dunroaming]

6 hours ago, Blumpie said:

Oh absolutely.  

When I turn 70 I am not taking any medication at all and nature will take its course.  I see too many people who are shells of themselves and live in misery.  It's a horrible situation and I'm not so sure that living a long life, for some people, is worth it.  For the ones you see out and about it definetly IS worth it but they are not the norm.  And it can all come to an end like this poor unfortunate man.  

When I was 17 my mantra was "I hope I die before I get old", along with most others of my generation.  In my thirties I was fretting because I should have been a millionaire by then and pledged I would be before I hit 40!  At fifty I became a husband again and a dad to a beautiful baby boy.  At that point I put the "hope I die before I get old" bit on hold.  In my sixties I started travelling to all the exotic destinations that I had read about but never had the time to visit.

 

I am now 73 and my bucket list is only half completed.  So while I am still fit enough and with a little help when I need it, I will continue ticking the boxes for as long as I can.  And actually, I am rather glad I didn't die before I got old!

[dlclark97]

8 hours ago, djayz said:

27 thousand quid for an operation!?!? Surely that must be THB 27,000, no? 

 

You must be joking!  Quality care in a private hospital as used by most farangs is not cheap.  Nor are government hospitals if an in patient.  I had surgery from the groin to just above the knees to replace partially blocked arteries with artificial ones.  This included a bypass above the pelvic area to balance the flow to each leg.  It was done at a private hospital.  Only six 3 inch incisions total.  Two days in ICU and six additional days in a room where my wife also was able to stay.  Surgeon, my doctor and other staff were exceptional.  Total cost was about 800,000 thb.  The before and after care was outstanding.  Compared to what this would have cost in the USA I felt I had felt I had won the lottery.    

 

[RJRS1301]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

When I was 17 my mantra was "I hope I die before I get old", along with most others of my generation.  In my thirties I was fretting because I should have been a millionaire by then and pledged I would be before I hit 40!  At fifty I became a husband again and a dad to a beautiful baby boy.  At that point I put the "hope I die before I get old" bit on hold.  In my sixties I started travelling to all the exotic destinations that I had read about but never had the time to visit.

 

I am now 73 and my bucket list is only half completed.  So while I am still fit enough and with a little help when I need it, I will continue ticking the boxes for as long as I can.  And actually, I am rather glad I didn't die before I got old!

However have you made provision for the unexpected " medical emergency, or fall" where you loose capacity and are not  cognisant ?

[The Fugitive]

5 minutes ago, dlclark97 said:

You must be joking!  Quality care in a private hospital as used by most farangs is not cheap.  Nor are government hospitals if an in patient.  I had surgery from the groin to just above the knees to replace partially blocked arteries with artificial ones.  This included a bypass above the pelvic area to balance the flow to each leg.  It was done at a private hospital.  Only six 3 inch incisions total.  Two days in ICU and six additional days in a room where my wife also was able to stay.  Surgeon, my doctor and other staff were exceptional.  Total cost was about 800,000 thb.  The before and after care was outstanding.  Compared to what this would have cost in the USA I felt I had felt I had won the lottery.    

 

Very good treatment and service in a Thai private hospital and amazing value for money. However, some retirees live here because they cannot afford to live in their home Country paying Council Tax and enormous Winter gas heating bills out of their meagre Government pensions. These are the retirees who use visa agents because they don't have 800,000 baht to show for their retirement extensions. They never had to pay for medical treatment at home and never made any provision. The cost of your operation would be beyond their means.  

[Burma Bill]

8 hours ago, AwwYesNice1 said:

has sufficient life insurance.

As a diabetic, especially an insulin dependent one like me, very difficult to get life insurance - if at all! I tried on several occasions when I was living in Thailand without success. I was also refused medical/health insurance. All I could purchase was accident insurance but not here in Cambodia, where I now live, as I am too old at 77 and I was also refused Covid-19 insurance. So now I am uninsured, having to pay, where required, from my personal funds.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Burma Bill
additional information

[dunroaming]

9 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

However have you made provision for the unexpected " medical emergency, or fall" where you loose capacity and are not  cognisant ?

Should have said that we now live in the UK having left Thailand some years ago.  So when I travel I do have the appropriate insurance, at an increasingly high cost depending on where I am going to.  But if I worry about "what-ifs" all the time then I wouldn't go anywhere.  Living life to the full is always going to involve some risk, a price I am very happy to pay.