Condo buyers in Bangkok: 50% are Chinese - less than 20% are westerners, boom expected post COVID

[webfact]

Picture: Bangkok Business News

 

The business development manager of real estate firm Saensiri is predicting that boom times are coming to the condo market in Bangkok and tourism areas like Pattaya and Phuket once the pandemic subsides and vaccination numbers go up.

 

Business development manager Praiya Bunnak told Bangkok Business News that 80% of their 10 billion dollar business last year and this was with foreigners. 

 

He expects continued growth in the Thai capital and tourist centers once the pandemic subsides.

 

He said that in the last two years 50% of all buyers of condominiums were Chinese investors with another 30% from Hong Kong.

 

Most of these were buying in order to rent out properties.

 

The remaining  20% of buyers came from Taiwan, the US, UK, France, Germany and other European countries. 

 

Westerners were more interested in holiday homes but had an eye on renting out when they were not living in their homes. 

 

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[Will B Good]

If you can't walk the walk at least talk the talk.

 

Good attempt at trying to create a self-fulling prophecy.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Will B Good

[Boarn]

Very difficult to consider a condo in Thailand with the allowance of Chinese buyers. Hong Kong and the real China (Taiwan) absolutely no problem but the Mainland Chinese are world destroyers and have absolutely no place here in my opinion. When I first arrived in Thailand in 2005 there were not many Chinese here, we were sold a lie! 

[ThomasThBKK]

Dishonest or incompetent?

There will be no chinese condo buying boom.

 

China is cracking down on everything right now, including chinese peoples oversees investing.

 

Heck they even cracked down on gaming, ktv and their own tech company, wiped out billion dollar education companies - but yeah sure they will allow all chinese to buy <deleted>ty thai RE. 
 

 

GASSSHHHH

[Johnny Mac]

Post Covid?? There is no such thing, it's here to stay.

[Ohyesuare]

I will never knowingly rent from a Chinese owned condo. They seem to be the most worn down, broken, badly managed and badly reviewed units of everything I've seen.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Boarn said:

Very difficult to consider a condo in Thailand with the allowance of Chinese buyers. Hong Kong and the real China (Taiwan) absolutely no problem but the Mainland Chinese are world destroyers and have absolutely no place here in my opinion. When I first arrived in Thailand in 2005 there were not many Chinese here, we were sold a lie! 

What a racist BS, can you go back to your home country.

[Boarn]

19 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

What a racist BS, can you go back to your home country.

How is that racist? 

 

Have you been spat on in a hotel lift?

Have you been pushed and shoved out of the way at a hotel buffet or in a queue at a shop?

Have you used the facilities after someone from mainland China?

Have you witnessed people allowing their children to relieve themselves in the street?

Have you rented a condo next to someone who insisted on shouting at the tops of their voices at all hours and spitting in the corridor?

Have you ever seen someone pissing into a swimming pool while standing on the edge?

 

To name a few of the infractions of normal behavior I have witnessed from mainland Chinese.

 

Last time I checked people from Hong Kong or Taiwan are of the same 'race' as people from mainland China yet appear to be a lot more suited to international travel.

 

There is nothing whatsoever racist in my comment.

 

The Chinese government is busy colonialising large tracts of Africa, Chinese bosses are murdering African workers on a daily basis. China is trying to steal the whole of the South China Sea. China is committing mass genocide in Xinjiang province, China has <deleted> all over what was one of the best cities in the world, Hong Kong, China wants to ruin Taiwan, the real China the list goes on.

 

If China was like Taiwan is today there would be no issue would there, people from Taiwan are really nice and civilized as a whole.

 

Not racist in any way shape or form.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Boarn

[IamNoone88]

Saensiri ??? 

[spidermike007]

Totally fake news, and a totally ridiculous prediction. He honestly thinks the economy will just jump right back, as soon as this is over? Try 2026. 

 

The pain will be felt for many years to come. I anticipate condo prices to drop by half. A friend of mine recently moved to Pattaya. He looked at condos in Jomtien. He walked into one of the nicest towers, looked at a 36th floor unit with panoramic views, and when he was quoted 28,000 a month, he offered 10,000. They settled on 13,000. He said the agent more or less admitted the building was nearly empty, and they could not rent to sell anything, at this time. He also told me that a girlfriend of his works as a senior level manager for one of Thailand's biggest developers. She told him that they have reduced their building by 90% of what it was pre-Covid, which was around 100 developments a year. She said it was nearly impossible to sell or lease anything right now, at a price point that made sense. 

On Samui, hundreds of villas were built on spec, by hungry investors. And they could not sell for years. The land sold, for the spec villas. But the villas ended up on the rental market, and they decimated the rental market too, as there were an incredible number, and the owners were desperate to get something out them.

Demand is way down. The Chinese market is nearly gone, Russians and others are very hesitant to commit. And the long term tourists are gone too. So, who does that leave? Wealthy Thais, many of whom see the market collapsing, and would rather wait and see how all of this shakes out, and ex-pats, many of whom are smart enough to be shopping for bargains right now.

Anyone interested in buying a condo right now, would be better off waiting awhile. Timing is on your side. Time is now your ally. The economy is going remain devastated here, for a very long time to come. And the longer this goes on, the more people are going to be affected by it, and the more desperate some will become. For the wealthy it barely matters. But, there are many middle class who have money invested, and there are alot of Chinese and Russians who bought, and cannot even visit Thailand. Some of them will want to unload their properties. Wait. The condo market is severely overbuilt. And demand is low, for all but the top buildings.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, IamNoone88 said:

Saensiri ??? 

They probably mean Sansiri.

[FritsSikkink]

58 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Totally fake news,  

What is fake news? He predicts when the vaccinations rise and travel resumes, they will sell more real estate.

Sansiri is one of the biggest real estate companies in Thailand.

[aussienam]

I had my own experience as a condo owner, thankfully selling albeit at a loss pre-COVID.  Was a nightmare experience from about a few months into getting the keys. 

 

I thought I had done my due diligence with extensive research into the developer, the construction company, the land being approved, etc. I had employed a reputable law firm.  Had the contract scrutinized as well. 

 

I recall when buying, the agents promised capital growth over 1 Million Baht and fantastic rental returns.  Yeah .... Nah. 

 

Building quality was very poor under the impressive facade.  It looked great brand new, but didn't take long for major problems to appear.

 

Foreign kids ran amok trashing the place. Defecating in the pool .... I swam into a few turds. Not surprising with naked babies being allowed to do whatever. Other kids just openly urinated for fun. Security were hopeless. 

Another massive problem with foreign investors was the very poor compliance with yearly maintenance fees.  It seems many don't wish to wire money through, rather paying in cash only when they come over for a holiday.  Maybe due to them not wanting their governments to know they own offshore properties (I was told that by Juristic management). 

 

My condo complex only had about ⅔ compliance on fee payments so maintenance fell behind. Plus stolen or fraudulently misappropriated funds for services not rendered. Annual meetings became non-events as not enough owners turned up as most were overseas. A very convenient legislation to have.  So serious issues could be continually diverted.   

 

You know you have problems when owners have to create an online group to voice concerns. 

 

Selling was an incredibly stressful experience.  Firstly, the lying pieces of **** farang real estate agents who severely under quoted the sales price with obvious colleagues lined up to buy you out at a massive discount. Trying to convince me I wasn't going to get a better deal.  Go to hell. 

 

Then the ridiculous jealousy and greed driven Thai agents who lied and pretended I had interested buyers, even lodging a fake deposit in my account for a customer who never existed! (I kept the deposit LOL).  So I lost buyers a couple of times through other agents. 

I ended up selling through an agent who upsold through another agent who had a Chinese buyer. 

 

Luckily the exchange rate was in my favour, so I had didn't lose a life changing amount.  I could have bought a new small car from the loss amount though. 

 

Always remember that an agent will always tell the buyer it is a good time to get in.  And will tell the seller it is a good time to sell.  BS dribbles out of their mouths daily.  They could not care less how much you lose and how it affects you.  

 

Consumer protection laws here are about zero. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by aussienam

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

He said that in the last two years 50% of all buyers of condominiums were Chinese investors with another 30% from Hong Kong

So the money coming in from these rentals will largely stay in foreign pockets and not go into the Thai economy

[Pravda]

32 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

What is fake news? He predicts when the vaccinations rise and travel resumes, they will sell more real estate.

Sansiri is one of the biggest real estate companies in Thailand.

 

As long as I'm staying at Conrad for less than $50 a day including breakfast (like I am today) there will be no real estate recovery in Thailand. First the hotels need to go back to previous levels, then rents need to go up to justify the multi million purchase price. What idiot would buy in Bangkok for 6million baht to have it rented for 13,000b a month. 

[Aussieroaming]

I certainly wouldn't be building new condo buildings whilst the current condo glut is so evident. Yet I watch them building at least 5 new condo buildings near me that I can see from my condo and I am sure there are many others being built for the future hordes. Someone is heavily backing a rosy future.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

What is fake news? He predicts when the vaccinations rise and travel resumes, they will sell more real estate.

Sansiri is one of the biggest real estate companies in Thailand.

He expects continued growth in the Thai capital and tourist centers once the pandemic subsides.

 

That is fake news. Growth compared to what? The past 18 months? If he is speaking of growth compared to pre-covid he is living in some sort of self created alternate reality bubble. 

[Eric Loh]

3 hours ago, Boarn said:

Not racist in any way shape or form.

 

I don't see why it's racist too. Remember the phrase "Ugly American" which still is today. Stand for Americans who wear tube tops to the Vatican or shout for Big Macs in Beijing. No way I trying to be racist. 

 

[dunroaming]

4 hours ago, Boarn said:

Very difficult to consider a condo in Thailand with the allowance of Chinese buyers. Hong Kong and the real China (Taiwan) absolutely no problem but the Mainland Chinese are world destroyers and have absolutely no place here in my opinion. When I first arrived in Thailand in 2005 there were not many Chinese here, we were sold a lie! 

The Chinese have always been the main investors in Thailand owning most of the larger companies there.  The Chinese  people now buying property are mainly young upwardly mobile professionals.  The same as in many western countries in the world.  They are by far the biggest buyers in London although the vast majority are Hong Kong Chinese with very deep pockets.

 

There is a shift in the world's economy and the "new money" is coming from Asia, China and India being the biggest players.  I have spent the last thirty years buying in China and South East Asia and selling in the west.  For the last three years or so, the trend has reversed and my biggest market now in Is Singapore, Hong Kong and certain mainland Chinese cities.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

 

As long as I'm staying at Conrad for less than $50 a day including breakfast (like I am today) there will be no real estate recovery in Thailand. First the hotels need to go back to previous levels, then rents need to go up to justify the multi million purchase price. What idiot would buy in Bangkok for 6million baht to have it rented for 13,000b a month. 

It is true that it has never made sense to buy rather than rent in Thailand.  The properties I built there were to sell on to ex-pats, never for the rental market.

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The Chinese have always been the main investors in Thailand owning most of the larger companies there.  The Chinese  people now buying property are mainly young upwardly mobile professionals.  The same as in many western countries in the world.  They are by far the biggest buyers in London although the vast majority are Hong Kong Chinese with very deep pockets.

 

There is a shift in the world's economy and the "new money" is coming from Asia, China and India being the biggest players.  I have spent the last thirty years buying in China and South East Asia and selling in the west.  For the last three years or so, the trend has reversed and my biggest market now in Is Singapore, Hong Kong and certain mainland Chinese cities.

     My partner and I have sold 5 renovated condos to Chinese buyers.  4 in Pattaya and 1 in Bangkok.  The buyers were all exactly what you described:  'young upwardly mobile professionals'.  That certainly surprised me--at that age I was struggling to just buy my first condo to escape years of renting.   Most of the lookers who didn't buy were also the same.  I remember one young Chinese in his late 20s or early 30s who looked at one of our condos priced around 7.5MB.  He liked it but told us his budget was 10MB and he was looking for something bigger.  Okaaay.

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, newnative said:

     My partner and I have sold 5 renovated condos to Chinese buyers.  4 in Pattaya and 1 in Bangkok.  The buyers were all exactly what you described:  'young upwardly mobile professionals'.  That certainly surprised me--at that age I was struggling to just buy my first condo to escape years of renting.   Most of the lookers who didn't buy were also the same.  I remember one young Chinese in his late 20s or early 30s who looked at one of our condos priced around 7.5MB.  He liked it but told us his budget was 10MB and he was looking for something bigger.  Okaaay.

Until recently I visited Thailand regularly as I still have business interests there.  I stay at four or five star hotels these days as I am too old to do the cut price hotels.  I have noticed over the last four or five years that the hotels get far more young Chinese guests, usually young families.  Without exception they all speak English, are polite, including their children and never push in front of you.  This is certainly different to the many years I spent travelling in mainland China when social graces were sadly missing.

[newnative]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Until recently I visited Thailand regularly as I still have business interests there.  I stay at four or five star hotels these days as I am too old to do the cut price hotels.  I have noticed over the last four or five years that the hotels get far more young Chinese guests, usually young families.  Without exception they all speak English, are polite, including their children and never push in front of you.  This is certainly different to the many years I spent travelling in mainland China when social graces were sadly missing.

You've described the buyers we've had.

[3NUMBAS]

in 97 the  condo hulks were lying idle for years this time is   the same and worse as it wont be over ever

[Lancelot01]

14 hours ago, Boarn said:

Very difficult to consider a condo in Thailand with the allowance of Chinese buyers. Hong Kong and the real China (Taiwan) absolutely no problem but the Mainland Chinese are world destroyers and have absolutely no place here in my opinion. When I first arrived in Thailand in 2005 there were not many Chinese here, we were sold a lie! 

And no credit checks in Thailand. Total disregard for source of funds, d/d etc.. 

[bangon04]

15 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Dishonest or incompetent?

There will be no chinese condo buying boom.

 

China is cracking down on everything right now, including chinese peoples oversees investing.

 

Heck they even cracked down on gaming, ktv and their own tech company, wiped out billion dollar education companies - but yeah sure they will allow all chinese to buy <deleted>ty thai RE. 
 

 

GASSSHHHH

The Chinese WILL buy. They have plenty of money they wish to park. There are also many middle class HKers who need to have an escape plan but maybe cannot afford the UK yet.

 

All Thailand needs is more Casinos and more Chinatowns to attract them..... their cousins here in Thailand will surely oblige.

[FritsSikkink]

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

He expects continued growth in the Thai capital and tourist centers once the pandemic subsides.

 

That is fake news. Growth compared to what? The past 18 months? If he is speaking of growth compared to pre-covid he is living in some sort of self created alternate reality bubble. 

What is fake about growth compared to the last 18 months?

[ThomasThBKK]

19 hours ago, aussienam said:

Another massive problem with foreign investors was the very poor compliance with yearly maintenance fees.  It seems many don't wish to wire money through, rather paying in cash only when they come over for a holiday.  Maybe due to them not wanting their governments to know they own offshore properties (I was told that by Juristic management).

Many don't know this, but in fact it's mostly illegal for chinese to own oversees RE, as they have to break multiple laws to get them (also multiple thail laws like not having a proper foreign transaction form used etc).

 

For them this is not about investing or because they like thailand, it's simply to get money out of china - and china hates this, they cracked down on bitcoin, underground banks and remittance services for a reason, they do not want money to leave china.

 

It gets harder and harder, in the past most money went through HK - we all know what happened to HK. 

 

More here: https://rutlandandpartners.com/en/chinese-government-limits-overseas-real-estate-transactions/

 

if your business depends on the chinese being able to break their laws, you are REKKKKT

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

What is fake about growth compared to the last 18 months?

When you have a Covid economy, and the entire nation is locked down, and then you compare the economic growth of the economy after the nation opens up again, that is rather disingenuous at best, and completely insincere and dishonest at worst. To be fair, they should make any economic comparisons, with the fiscal year 2019 or earlier. 

[Will B Good]

20 hours ago, aussienam said:

I had my own experience as a condo owner, thankfully selling albeit at a loss pre-COVID.  Was a nightmare experience from about a few months into getting the keys. 

 

I thought I had done my due diligence with extensive research into the developer, the construction company, the land being approved, etc. I had employed a reputable law firm.  Had the contract scrutinized as well. 

 

I recall when buying, the agents promised capital growth over 1 Million Baht and fantastic rental returns.  Yeah .... Nah. 

 

Building quality was very poor under the impressive facade.  It looked great brand new, but didn't take long for major problems to appear.

 

Foreign kids ran amok trashing the place. Defecating in the pool .... I swam into a few turds. Not surprising with naked babies being allowed to do whatever. Other kids just openly urinated for fun. Security were hopeless. 

Another massive problem with foreign investors was the very poor compliance with yearly maintenance fees.  It seems many don't wish to wire money through, rather paying in cash only when they come over for a holiday.  Maybe due to them not wanting their governments to know they own offshore properties (I was told that by Juristic management). 

 

My condo complex only had about ⅔ compliance on fee payments so maintenance fell behind. Plus stolen or fraudulently misappropriated funds for services not rendered. Annual meetings became non-events as not enough owners turned up as most were overseas. A very convenient legislation to have.  So serious issues could be continually diverted.   

 

You know you have problems when owners have to create an online group to voice concerns. 

 

Selling was an incredibly stressful experience.  Firstly, the lying pieces of **** farang real estate agents who severely under quoted the sales price with obvious colleagues lined up to buy you out at a massive discount. Trying to convince me I wasn't going to get a better deal.  Go to hell. 

 

Then the ridiculous jealousy and greed driven Thai agents who lied and pretended I had interested buyers, even lodging a fake deposit in my account for a customer who never existed! (I kept the deposit LOL).  So I lost buyers a couple of times through other agents. 

I ended up selling through an agent who upsold through another agent who had a Chinese buyer. 

 

Luckily the exchange rate was in my favour, so I had didn't lose a life changing amount.  I could have bought a new small car from the loss amount though. 

 

Always remember that an agent will always tell the buyer it is a good time to get in.  And will tell the seller it is a good time to sell.  BS dribbles out of their mouths daily.  They could not care less how much you lose and how it affects you.  

 

Consumer protection laws here are about zero. 

 

 

 

 

God, what a nightmare.

 

Something everyone here, who bangs on about buying, should read. 

 

I will never invest capital here, I will only ever rent.