What about us? Furious retirees/expats in Thailand slam proposals to attract wealthy foreigners

[StevieAus]

5 hours ago, Artisi said:

You just confirmed my comment, it's not free nor cheap by Thai standards when a local can get treated for B35. 

 

Your not local or Thai that’s why you cannot get the 35 baht treatment.

If you live in the UK or Australia and use the Government system it’s free apart from maybe medication.

You cannot expect what happens in one country to apply in another if you do, with respect your living in a fools paradise !

[StevieAus]

9 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Thai airlines used to be run by the Airforce who didn't want the job. A Qantas pilot once told me that it was a miracle that Thai airplanes weren't falling out the sky every day.

Thy are just about broke now so won't be around muck longer anyway.

Before I studied Law I was an aircraft engineer with Qantas from 1974-1980 and regularly did the turn around checks on Thai.

There were never any issues I can recall with Thai and their MELs were always good.

The airlines we were concerned about included Pan Am and “ We will fix in Bombay” Air India just  to mention a couple.

[Jingthing]

56 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Language  is without a doubt an issue but I believe it's a case not a symptom.

Language tests are basically. form of fascism. However, it might be worth looking at why people don't learn the language and take steps to rectify that. I wouldn't trust the Thai authorities to imbue immigrants with Thai culture as they don't know themselves what that is.

My spoken Thai language is pretty good but my reading and writing is very bad. However I've spent a lot of time studying Thai culture and basic history and politics. Do I think everyone should be the same standard as me? Know - I also think that as a language education trainer, the chances of educating all expats to your standard is just pie-in-the-sky.

Expats around the world have similar problems and whilst one governments use language as part of immigration control (v. Australia white policy), it doesn't really help immigrant retirees who can find learning language quite hard. I think a self-awareness program would be more effective - run by immigrant organisations - ythere is no program for new arrivals to acclimatise themselves - when onfronted with Thai customs new to them, they frequently either dismiss them or don't take the seriously.

 

I think the educational background of many of the people who come to Thailand regardless of language leaves them ill-equipped to deal with th cultural differences and that is what needs to be addressed.

 

 

Retired expats are NOT immigrants!!!!!

[Artisi]

34 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

Your not local or Thai that’s why you cannot get the 35 baht treatment.

If you live in the UK or Australia and use the Government system it’s free apart from maybe medication.

You cannot expect what happens in one country to apply in another if you do, with respect your living in a fools paradise !

The comment started out as foreigners costing the the government money, not about Aust, UK etc. In theory farangs have to pay, meaning no expense to the government, of course many don't pay, but that's a different subject to what the original poster was inferring. 

Of course those a/ holes not paying is the very reason the government is now ramping up the need for forengiers to have their own health cover. 

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

Language  is without a doubt an issue but I believe it's a case not a symptom.

Language tests are basically. form of fascism. However, it might be worth looking at why people don't learn the language and take steps to rectify that. I wouldn't trust the Thai authorities to imbue immigrants with Thai culture as they don't know themselves what that is.

My spoken Thai language is pretty good but my reading and writing is very bad. However I've spent a lot of time studying Thai culture and basic history and politics. Do I think everyone should be the same standard as me? Know - I also think that as a language education trainer, the chances of educating all expats to your standard is just pie-in-the-sky.

Expats around the world have similar problems and whilst one governments use language as part of immigration control (v. Australia white policy), it doesn't really help immigrant retirees who can find learning language quite hard. I think a self-awareness program would be more effective - run by immigrant organisations - ythere is no program for new arrivals to acclimatise themselves - when onfronted with Thai customs new to them, they frequently either dismiss them or don't take the seriously.

 

I think the educational background of many of the people who come to Thailand regardless of language leaves them ill-equipped to deal with th cultural differences and that is what needs to be addressed.

 

 

The white Australia policy was shelved many many years ago, and people who want to apply for citizenship are offered extensive language learning if they require it. 

[StevieAus]

1 minute ago, Artisi said:

The comment started out as foreigners costing the the government money, not about Aust, UK etc. In theory farangs have to pay, meaning no expense to the government, of course many don't pay, but that's a different subject to what the original poster was inferring. 

Of course those a/ holes not paying is the very reason the government is now ramping up the need for forengiers to have their own health cover. 

From memory the post I responded to originally had a comment about no cheap medical or hospital costs for foreigners.

So to decide if it’s cheap you have to compare with elsewhere.

Anyway my view is that if you travel or move to a country knowing that you are not going to receive free treatment and you are unable to pay or you are uninsured it’s very foolish.

I am finished now thanks for your input.

[StevieAus]

8 minutes ago, Artisi said:

The white Australia policy was shelved many many years ago, and people who want to apply for citizenship are offered extensive language learning if they require it. 

I am out of touch with the residency requirements but wasn’t English Language proficiency something that gave you “higher points” ?

Its good to know they are offering extensive language training,I know kids got it at school but when my Thai wife got her residency about 15 years ago it was very limited and low quality.

I paid for her to attend  college full time.

[Rampant Rabbit]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

These were free but they seemed reluctant to give out their Sprite yet seemed Beer. I've seen this on several airlines, they prefer servicing the drunks. 

Adapt  or  die, i mean thats what youre  asking non thai speakers to do....become an alcoholic, problem solved

[Rampant Rabbit]

36 minutes ago, Artisi said:

The white Australia

Shameful surely that should read "person of  no  colour"

[Rampant Rabbit]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

If anyone has supported their local Thai community for 20 years and can't speak Thai, they deserve a medal. How exactly can they go to community meetings and participate? 

[Chris.B]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

It costs because it takes up healthcare resources....... many expats end up "terminally " ill in hospitals without sufficient insurance cover - the state then has to supply basic care until death and then funeral expenses.

They also have to supply emegncy care and then ed up moving patients from one hospital to another as the money turns out to be unrecoverable. Getting money back offf sea or injured foreigners is a big problem in Thailand.

Many expats ?? 

[garyk]

On 9/15/2021 at 9:19 PM, Neeranam said:

Thailand remains one if the most welcoming cointries for retirees in the world. 

Glad to see some gratitude. 

Thailand is a develiping country, and as we develop, visa requirements are going to become more reciprocal with other nations. 

It seems to be only poor retirees, or those with a self-entitlement

issue that are complaining. 

The government is targetting well off foreigners and some are self righteously attacking them to try to raise their low self esteem.

 

 

I sure wish America would enforce the laws for immigration. 

Low life Thais coming in. Don't learn the language. 

Take up hospital space, and drive the medical costs up.

 

Personally I wish they would just reciprocate in not allowing Thais to work. All Thais have to put up 800,000 baht in a US bank to stay for a yearly extension. If married they have to put up 40,000 baht in a bank. 

Basically mirror the laws in Thailand. 

This would basically drive out 75-80 percent of all Thai's from the US. 

 

I know of some wonderful Philippine nurses and people here that contribute to the economy.  Oddly enough I don't know of one Thai. They are lazy and sponge off of the system. 

 

"Thailand remains one if the most welcoming cointries for retirees in the world."

Hahahaha, are you kidding?

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by garyk

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, garyk said:

Personally I wish they would just reciprocate in not allowing Thais to work. All Thais have to put up 800,000 baht in a US bank to stay for a yearly extension. If married they have to put up 40,000 baht in a bank. 

Basically mirror the laws in Thailand. 

This would basically drive out 75-80 percent of all Thai's from the US. 

Thai retirees in the US must show that they have invested 16,000,000 baht. I think the US has done enough to keep Thai codgers out.

[Jingthing]

The USA has NO retirement visa. Period. End of story. 

[bkkcanuck8]

On 9/15/2021 at 3:54 AM, EricTh said:

 

Likewise, retirement visa is more difficult to extend than education visa (in 'learn Thai' classes) with no financial requirements and no attendance requirement, go figure.

 

 

 

BS.  My first 'long term' visa was an educational visa taking Thai language lessons before they cracked down on the visa.  At that time, it was easy to extend (but then the first extension was after less than a full year (forget if it was 3 or 6 months).  They cracked down on the educational visa and then many of those moved to using visa-waivers repeatedly until those were cracked down on, then they moved onto tourist visas... 

 

Any pensioner who is receiving a regular pension payment from a western country to Thailand, should be able to live a much better life locally than they would be back home and if they have not gone crazy spending every night out at a gogo/beer bar, living on all western food at restaurants, living in a western oriented condo in 'downtown' Bangkok... should be receiving more money than they spend and within a short time should have no problem qualifying based on a bank balance here.   Personally, I prefer having a buffer in a Thai bank for emergencies anyway.   I find it much much easier to qualify for extensions based on retirement... walk in, fill in a few forms, they look at the bank statement (sometimes with a surprise look at the size of the float).... stamped and out the door for another year.  Educational visa's on the other hand they view with great suspicion and are more likely to be refused extension at anytime.

[garyk]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The USA has NO retirement visa. Period. End of story. 

 Personally I think they should change the rules. Tit for tat.  That would stop all the nonsense IMHO.

 

Back to the things that Near sided Neeranam is spouting.  

The expats here put money in the Thai banking system, and support themselves.  As well as thai families. 

The Thai's that I know in the US are living a good life.  With no obligations what so ever.

Marry a US citizen then it is gravy train.  

I know some that married a US citizen came to America then at retirement draw on the husbands SS and move back to Thailand. It is so one sided it is crazy. 

IMHO Thailand has 0.00 to offer expats. Except for the "Pussy cat bar and grill".

 

Thai's complain about sexpats, when in fact In the towns I lived in it was the Thais that made this a thriving industry. Hypocrites to the nth  degree.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by garyk

[The Cipher]

8 minutes ago, garyk said:

 Personally I think they should change the rules. Tit for tat.  That would stop all the nonsense IMHO.

You think that people from pretty much anywhere should be able to enter developed countries on easily attainable and indefinitely extendible visas as long as they agree to put like 25 Gs in an account and report their whereabouts every 90 days?

 

Pretty sure the tsunami of people who would take that up offer won't be complaining about the unfairness lmao.

[garyk]

6 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

You think that people from pretty much anywhere should be able to enter developed countries on easily attainable and indefinitely extendible visas as long as they agree to put like 25 Gs in an account and report their whereabouts every 90 days?

 

Pretty sure the tsunami of people who would take that up offer won't be complaining about the unfairness lmao.

Put it on the ones already here. That would thin it out considerably..  

The Thai's I know here are dead beats.  

No insurance, No health care unless privately funded, Cannot buy property, Cannot work. Have to keep a balance in a US bank. How many people would come? Have to bring in money from outside of the US and deposit monthly..

Please...

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by garyk

[zzaa09]

3 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

You think that people from pretty much anywhere should be able to enter developed countries on easily attainable and indefinitely extendible visas as long as they agree to put like 25 Gs in an account and report their whereabouts every 90 days?

 

Pretty sure the tsunami of people who would take that up offer won't be complaining about the unfairness lmao.

Developed country...? 

[pedro01]

On 9/15/2021 at 9:59 AM, Pravda said:

It's the same like when you've been with a certain bank for 20 years and they give $300 to new customers who open a checking account with them and nothing to their old and loyal ones.

 

So, what about you? Nada. It's just business.

 

 

 

It's called marketing, you do it to get new customers.

 

Same deal here, the people here are already here, if they want more here, they need to focus on those that aren't here yet.

 

[The Cipher]

8 minutes ago, garyk said:

How many people would come?

I was thinking more a general visa class open to the world, since Thailand's is a freely available option. But even if they only opened it to Thailand I imagine there'd be a fair few takers. 25,000 isn't that much money to secure an backup plan if things go pear-shaped locally. Most investor visas cost way more than that.

 

13 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Developed country...? 

Yes? I was responding to a post that suggested that other countries should adopt reciprocal measures to Thailand supposedly because the requirements would be seen as being too onerous. But in fact, a ton of people would jump at a visa pathway to your home countries with identical requirements to Thailand's.

 

I think stuff like 90 day reporting is stupid af, but it's more of an annoyance than anything to really complain about. Especially given how many complaints are directed at it.

[pedro01]

On 9/15/2021 at 10:22 AM, BE88 said:

My problem is that I see more and more compromising my future in Thailand against everything I have invested and that I continue to support the economy of Thailand and it will probably be the worst investment I have ever made in my life.

Your living expenses are not an investment. Nor are your taxes. Nor is the property you live in.

 

If you invested money without the possibility of a return on that investment, that would be very odd.

 

You came to a place many only come on vacation, you lived the dream and you call that an investment in Thailand? 

 

 

 

[balo]

Are you surprised?
No money, no honey.  That goes for anything in Thailand.  

If you are spending more than a million baht in a  year it's fine, but you will never be accepted as a local resident here. 
 Your skin color is different.   

[pedro01]

On 9/15/2021 at 11:47 AM, spidermike007 said:

I would guess that 80% of all ex-pats, if you did a survey, would say the standard of living here, is amongst the top two or three reasons they are here. Without the affordability factor, Thailand offers a very limited amount of appeal for ex-pats. I do like most Thai people. And the food. 

 

Not much in the way of culture though. And if you consider the air, the poor quality of the water, the traffic hazards, and the govt., well I could go on. If I were wealthy enough, I would choose to be here no more than 2-3 months of each year. There are countless spots that would be very appealing as a traveling nomad. Croatia, Turkey, Spain, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, Sardinia, and many other spots. 

The number 1 thing I love about Thailand is the 'cowboy culture' aspect.

 

The police are mostly absent, yet crime isn't rampant. People found a way to get on with zero help from police. There is a total lack of law enforcement, yet it somehow works.

 

Government doesn't help, nobody relies on them or believes in them. That is a beautiful thing.

 

Everything is watered down in the West for your safety, here it is more raw and visceral and if you pay someone to let you do an activity thats dangerous and hurt yourself  - it's your fault. No litigation, they'll take you and your broken arm to the doctors and that's that.

 

Thai people are just like people everywhere else, the differences are a cultural veneer, the food is good, weather is nice and it's a life of freedom to do what you want.

 

All you have to do is be nice, keep your cool, don't sweat the small stuff and it's great.

 

I just think that a lot of people that are here want it to be the same as UK/US but with cheap sex, better weather and eventually a wife 30 years younger with a tiny waist and big jugs that loves them unconditionally.

 

To those, all I can offer is that if it sounds too good to be true, it definitely is in Thailand.

 

Many don't appreciate the madness and the freedom, because their little brain made the decision to relocate. 

 

Take away the madness and you'll  lose the cheap sex anyway.

 

We are all here, living on a rock, travelling through space at 1000 miles an hour. It could end in a microsecond.

 

Thailand is one of the few sane places to live for those that never asked to be born in the first place and were certainly never asked to sign up for society and all of its BS rules. 

 

But if you want The West + Cheap sex, you will forever be trying to change it.

[Thunglom]

7 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Many expats ?? 

Enough to make the government worry publicly on several occasions.

e,G - https://www.internationalinvestment.net/news/4000318/thailand-health-insurance-mandatory-expats

 

"Many Thai insurance companies refuse to cover those over the age of 60 and for those over 75 there' is even less chance of being able to find an insurer willing to take them on, however healthy they may be. Concerned expats  fear they will either be unable to be covered or will not be able to afford whatever the insurers themselves decide is the actual premium."

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

8 hours ago, Artisi said:

The white Australia policy was shelved many many years ago, and people who want to apply for citizenship are offered extensive language learning if they require it. 

Duh, Yes! - I'm citing an example of how language is missed as a criteria for immigration.

PS -  have taught ESL in Australia.

[Thunglom]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Retired expats are NOT immigrants!!!!!

Really? What do you think they are?

[Jingthing]

Just now, Thunglom said:

Really? What do you think they are?

NON immigrants as per their base visas.

I think the status level, which it is NOT possible to increase while on retirement extensions, is basically very long term tourists, doled out one year at a time. 

[Thunglom]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

NON immigrants as per their base visas.

I think the status level, which it is NOT possible to increase while on retirement extensions, is basically very long term tourists, doled out one year at a time. 

Apart from he fat they are by any other definition immigrants "a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country."

- what do you think they are?

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Thunglom

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Apart from he fat they are by any other definition immigrants - what do you think they are?

 

I already answered your question. Many retired expats harbor the DELUSION that they are immigrants and act accordingly, but they are not actually immigrants, the Thai government does not regard them as immigrants in any way, even if they've been here 30 years.

 

ACTUAL bona fide immigrants in any country have a path towards CITIZENSHIP or at the very least, permanent residence. There are a number of countries where retired expats can go for that. Thailand is NOT one of them (and never will be). 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Jingthing