Udon police arrest Swiss expat who killed armed intruder at his home

[Unify]

I would think that, if the wife and the Thai man were in cahoots, she would arrange to be gone when he arrived.

 

Also, if they planned it together, it doesn't make a lot of difference to the Swiss man's defense. It's still self-defense.

 

My armchair analysis is that the Swiss man's version is largely true. If so, an award is in order.

[HampiK]

2 minutes ago, pegman said:

Not easy to take a gun from someone without getting shot. Wouldn't surprise me if Swiss was waiting for the guy to drop off his wife. It could have happened on other occasions. This time he was waiting with his firearm. Tied the guy up and over did it slapping him around. Told wifey to go along with the story or the gravy train ends. The thing that made me suspicious was him being up making coffee.

Actually a gun in a short distance fight is of not much help. A gun is only good if you stay away a few meters.
And then the second part is only because you have a gun not mean you can handle the gun. There are so many person who know how to shot, but never tried to shot a moving target.

This not that easy as many thinks. I was in a shooting simulator in the army, and you have to learn how to shoot moving objects.
I not even sure about the majority of Americans if they know how to shoot moving targets. Shoot a coke can or a bootle is much much easier!
 

[JonnyF]

25 minutes ago, petermik said:

Doubtful if the relatives would accept that he is responsible for for his own demise unless substantial compensation is offered....personally I would get out of the area ASAP if he is cleared with or without the wife.

Yep, next time they're having a family gathering and all the male relatives have had a few whiskeys it might be prudent for him to stay somewhere else for the night.  

[connda]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Pol Maj-Gen Phisanu Unhaseri said there were two cases - the first involved trespass at night with a gun and attempted murder against the victim.

 

The second is that the foreigner will face charges of inflicting bodily harm causing death.

 

Whether it was self-defence will be taken into consideration, said the provincial police chief promising "justice for both sides". 

Watch this closely.  If he goes to jail after being threatened with a gun in his own home?  Very scary.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, connda said:

Watch this closely.  If he goes to jail after being threatened with a gun in his own home?  Very scary.

It depends , if it was self defense, he will not get charged , if it was a murder he will be charged  

[greenmonkey]

1 minute ago, connda said:

Watch this closely.  If he goes to jail after being threatened with a gun in his own home?  Very scary.

well yes, if the swiss guy's version of events are true and he is still jailed there will be a few worried looking farangs thats for sure. And to rub salt into the wounds we know for sure that a Thai guy defending himself and his property in the same way would defo be praised. And if you are a Thai guy in a uniform you don't even need to be acting in self defence (or so it seems).

[connda]

2 hours ago, keith101 said:

If he is charged with a crime causing death in defending himself then it will another reason for tourists to stay away and all expats to be wary of defending themselves .

If defending yourself against deadly force is a crime - yeah.  No foreigner in their right minds should ever come here.  Because your choice in that situation is do nothing and die or suffer grievous bodily harm - or - defend yourself and go to jail.

No Castle Doctrine in Thailand? Well -- then it is now Open Season for armed, home invasion of any and all foreigners residing in Thailand.  Let that sink in.

[JonnyF]

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

While there are injustices and inequalities in Thailand which we can all provide examples for, for the most part, foreigners are treated fairly and when balanced of mind we can all provide examples of that. 

 

Well I'm sure we can all provide many examples of foreigners not being treated fairly at all. The recent court ruling on the guy being charged extra for life saving medical treatment for cancer is a fairly obvious, and distasteful example.

 

I'm fairly sure many Burmese living in Thailand would also probably beg to differ with you on that. A lot of them are treated disgracefully. Modern day slave labour which is rightly condemned by most when balanced of mind.

[connda]

1 minute ago, greenmonkey said:

well yes, if the swiss guy's version of events are true and he is still jailed there will be a few worried looking farangs thats for sure. And to rub salt into the wounds we know for sure that a Thai guy defending himself and his property in the same way would defo be praised. And if you are a Thai guy in a uniform you don't even need to be acting in self defence (or so it seems).

Thai nationals are issued gun permits specifically for Home Defense. 
So yes.  A Thai could have defended themselves against an armed home invasion (with a legal gun) and would probably be sleeping in their own bed the following night.

A foreigner defends themselves against an armed home invasion - with their empty hands (not a gun) - and they end up in jail. 

[sanuk711]

1 hour ago, Ohyesuare said:

Article says he was an architect but that's most likely just a cover, he's probably former SAS, Navy Seal,

A Navy Seal......from Switzerland................

[Doctor Tom]

26 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And how do you KNOW that they are not facts? Were you there. Did you know the Swiss guy?

 

If it becomes a choice between the Swiss guy who was there and you who wasn't there, I certainly wouldn't believe you.

None of those comments are logical, but I have come to expect that on here. 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, JonnyF said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

While there are injustices and inequalities in Thailand which we can all provide examples for, for the most part, foreigners are treated fairly and when balanced of mind we can all provide examples of that. 

 

Well I'm sure we can all provide many examples of foreigners not being treated fairly at all. The recent court ruling on the guy being charged extra for life saving medical treatment for cancer is a fairly obvious, and distasteful example.

 

I'm fairly sure many Burmese living in Thailand would also probably beg to differ with you on that. A lot of them are treated disgracefully. Modern day slave labour which is rightly condemned by most when balanced of mind.

Agreed....  and when removing our bias and applying balance we can all provide examples of being treated fairly.

 

There are also lots of first hand posts on this forum of foreigners who have entered the Thai legal system and been treated fairly. 

 

There are also some outrageous injustices. 

 

 

My post was to highlight that while some are suggesting that the Swiss man will be automatically made to be at fault just because he is a foreigner are wrong - he may well be treated fairly.

 

The ‘foreigner is always wrong’ myth is something spread on bar stools but also perpetuated by more complicated cases you exampled above. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bbko]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yep, next time they're having a family gathering and all the male relatives have had a few whiskeys it might be prudent for him to stay somewhere else for the night.  

I was thinking the same thing, but once cleared of any wrong doings, I'd still moveout and sell the house.  I wouldn't want to have to be looking over my shoulder for years to come.

For those saying the wife could be involved, I'd think a check of her and the deceased phones could help clear up a lot.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Thai nationals are issued gun permits specifically for Home Defense. 
So yes.  A Thai could have defended themselves against an armed home invasion (with a legal gun) and would probably be sleeping in their own bed the following night.

A foreigner defends themselves against an armed home invasion - with their empty hands (not a gun) - and they end up in jail. 

He’s not ending up in jail - he’s being charged, as any other person (Thai or foreign) would be. 

 

At this stage there is no indication whatsoever of unjust treatment of the Swiss man. 

[robblok]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Whatever the reason for the Thai guy breaking in with a gun, he got what he deserved. It really doesn't matter whether it was for money or to kill the woman's husband for 'romantic' reasons.

 

If this had been a Farang breaking in and getting killed by the Thai defending his property the Thai would be lauded by his countrymen as brave, strong, noble etc. But no, the swiss guy is arrested. What's worse, if the Thai had injured the farang then the farang would have been charged extra for his medical treatment due to his nationality/ethnicity because he must be rich and it's "good for Thailand". What a joke.

 

I'm genuinely starting to question my future in this place. I've had a good run but I'm really starting to wonder if I can stay long term given recent events.

I think your making too much of it, the Swiss should be arrested. They do the same in my country arrest and then investigate and if self defense your cleared. 

 

If it went as the Swiss guy said its a clear case of self defense.

 

The police just has to check the story the one thing that is most important is to make sure who the owner of the gun is. That could change the whole story. 

 

I don't think tying him up is odd, but the gun in the pond is strange. (never mind was during struggle so its believable, he might have wanted to make sure nobody could  use it)

 

I think all that needs be doing is making sure this story is correct then its self defense (unless the guy was killed after he was tied up but would not know how to prove that)

Edited October 4, 2021 by robblok

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, tonray said:

yeah...halfway thru the post it gets a little more interesting...

Defintely. Maybe the intruder was supposed to shoot the husband, bereaved wife runs of into the sunset with Khun Somchai a bag of cash

 

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, connda said:

If defending yourself against deadly force is a crime - yeah.  No foreigner in their right minds should ever come here.  Because your choice in that situation is do nothing and die or suffer grievous bodily harm - or - defend yourself and go to jail.

No Castle Doctrine in Thailand? Well -- then it is now Open Season for armed, home invasion of any and all foreigners residing in Thailand.  Let that sink in.

Just curious do they accept self defense that easy in the US without investigation and charging someone until its cleared up. 

 

I understand self defense but don't you first need to check if it really was self defense ? I mean anyone claiming it should be investigated and cleared or charged. Letting someone go without investigation does that happen in the US ?

[2 is 1]

2 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Defintely. Maybe the intruder was supposed to shoot the husband, bereaved wife runs of into the sunset with Khun Somchai a bag of cash

 

Wife already have all farang's money + house, so why she want to go any place whit low life Thai man!? She can have lover if she want, man let her go to have party whit friend so she can do what ever she want.

[PFMills]

Nice little story for the UK Daily Mail newspaper 

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

what ?

 

The Thai was armed with a firearm and made an unauthorised entry to the property to commit armed robbery and discharged the firearm when challenged, he was then disarmed during a violent struggle and incapacitated - the Swiss man should be getting a medal

 

pretty clear to me

That's based on what the Swiss guy and his wife told the police. It might be true but the things that strikes me as odd are

 

1) The intruder knew the wife and wanted to initiate a relationship (according to her)

2) The intruder was tied up and he subsequently died (according to Swiss guy)

 

Something stinks...

 

[vinci]

reading half way through the article, they lost me, everything in that article make you facepalm really. I feel sorry for that farang he's been play

[Chelseafan]

2 minutes ago, 2 is 1 said:

Wife already have all farang's money + house, so why she want to go any place whit low life Thai man!? She can have lover if she want, man let her go to have party whit friend so she can do what ever she want.

 

Who knows Hercule...

 

 

 

[Chris.B]

"A struggle ensued as the Swiss man said he grabbed the intruder's arm and the gun went off but it didn't hit anyone.

Rudolf said he threw it in the pond next to the house.

In the furious fight fists and feet were used to attack the intruder who was knocked unconscious.

Worried that he would regain consciousness the foreigner tied him up, woke up his wife and got her to contact the phu yai ban to inform the police."

 

 

The wife is a sound sleeper, she didn't wake up while all this was going on!

 

[vinci]

Quote

Wife already have all farang's money + house, so why she want to go any place whit low life Thai man!? She can have lover if she want, man let her go to have party whit friend so she can do what ever she want.

to truly be free you must remove the grass from its roots then you can really enjoy life money and house, seem like her dream came true, killing two bird with one stone 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

If this Swiss man is charged with any offence at all, the Thais can kiss goodbye to attracting the high rolling Foreign people that they are so desperately seeking.

The potential 1 Million or so Digital Nomads Etc Etc Etc, will just say " <deleted> that, if I cannot defend myself , and what is mine, without prosecution."

Nonsense, do you think someone wanting to live on a beach in Phuket is going to care about a poor pensioner with a card-playing wife in Udon Thani? 

[jaideedave]

2 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

An investigation is needed. For all we know the burglar and wife could have been in cahoots?

 

3 hours ago, seajae said:

when you are attacked in your own home with a gun weilding robber you are entitled to defend yourself, in any other country it would be recognised as self defence, if a thai had done it, it would also be looked at as self defence but because a farang that was 10 years older than the robber did it he is being charged, really shows the anti farang views/laws they have here. 

I'm thinking the cops will get the dead mans family to ask for restitution and then split it with the family! TIT

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

The wife is a sound sleeper, she didn't wake up while all this was going on!

Sounds like an alcoholic. 

 

I wonder where a Swiss man finds a rural Isarn woman? 

[Neeranam]

16 minutes ago, 2 is 1 said:

Wife already have all farang's money + house, so why she want to go any place whit low life Thai man!? She can have lover if she want, man let her go to have party whit friend so she can do what ever she want.

Pok Daeng

[Neeranam]

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

He’s not ending up in jail - he’s being charged, as any other person (Thai or foreign) would be. 

 

At this stage there is no indication whatsoever of unjust treatment of the Swiss man. 

Right, lots of paranoids here. 

[ozzydon]

I remember  a few years ago a Ozzie man killed a bouncer In patong i was there at the time with a pocket knife in a struggle  it was swept under the carpet he probably paid the cops off and walked free thai justice lol