Who needs foreign tourists?

[Guderian]

So I decided to go for a pleasant, quiet late Sunday afternoon stroll along Jomtine Beach, as I have done for months. I have only ever seen the area there busier during extended holiday weekends or special events during normal times, it was packed. I don't think it was a holiday weekend or anything special was going on, but vast numbers of people from somewhere had descended on Jomtien Beach Road to while away Sunday afternoon. With crowds like this, who needs foreign tourists? OK, I know, the hotels and restaurants and bars (if they ever reopen) need them, but it was a change to see a breath of life in the place after it being so quiet for so long. Was Pattaya Beach the same, or does it still resenble a morgue?

[Swimfan]

Probably a country that relies on it for a significant portion of its GDP. 

[Chad3000]

It's not who we would hope or think.

 

All the moaning is from organized interests, groups, chamber of commerce/s. Yellow shirts with money. Imagine hotels and international groups high on the list

 

Since when was the country concerned with a person making less than 50k per month?? ????

[newnative]

33 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

What a stupid, thoughtless post from @Guderian... you really think two days on the weekend can make up for the previous 7-day-busy week? 

    Sorry, but what a stupid, thoughtless post from you.   Lighten up already.  He was commenting on observing some life on Jomtien Beach over the weekend, and remarking that it was nice to see the activity.  I noticed the same thing on Pattaya Beach the other weekend--lots of people around on the promenade, on the beach, sitting in the beach chairs, cars parked all along Beach Road.  It was great to see the activity there, too.   With restrictions eased, it's nice to see visitors from Bangkok and elsewhere starting to return on the weekends.   Pardon us for being happy to see 'a breath of life'. 

[internationalism]

foreign tourists do bring foreign currency, stay for several weeks, spend over 5k per day on hotel, services and goods. 

From today's TAT projection for 2022 domestic tourists are counted 5300b per day, but it's grossly overestimated.

I think for thai a fraction, around 1k per day, is realistic. They would travel in family 4+ or largish group, stay all in one bungalow or large room. It would be only 1 night during weekend or 3-4 night extended holiday.

Even with special offers on agoda those jomtien hotels are empty even during weekends  

[Maha Sarakham]

Naklua and Jomtien are fine due to the expat communities and weekend Bangkokians, Central Pattaya is still devastated.

[champers]

Pattaya beach was busy today. I was near Soi 3 and 6 coaches were parked up from Bangkok in A-One's car park and both sides of Beach Road had full parking.

Good for all the small traders and beach chair operators.

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, Guderian said:

OK, I know, the hotels and restaurants and bars (if they ever reopen) need them,

 

So does the staff that the hospitality industry employs here.

 

You answered your own question.  

[spidermike007]

Pattaya, Samui, and Phuket are still devastated. A tiny fraction of what they used to earn, is being seen now. Sure, they see a few busy days here and there. But the economy is in tatters. Nobody knows how many millions are out of work right now. 

 

One of the barometers of an economy are the billboards. I drove 500 km. today, and likely saw well over 100 large ones, that were blank. Some were crumbling, it had been that long since they were used. Hundreds of companies unwilling, or unable to spend the kind of money on marketing to support that industry. 

 

The ripple effect is huge. Look for a 5-7 year recovery, and over 20% sustained unemployment. And likely under 5 million international tourists a year, five years from now. 

 

The economic sabotage, willful or not, has been historic. Let us hope the creeps will be held to account. Covid is but one part of the puzzle. 

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, internationalism said:

Even with special offers on agoda those jomtien hotels are empty even during weekends

I couldn't help noticing some hotels that I usually stay at lift their prices now that the "We travel together" Thai promotion with the 40% discount is back on for Thai citizens.

 

The above said, I looked at these hotels a couple of weeks ago for prices from 1 November for a week.

 

I wrote down their prices as the wife said the "We travel together" promotion was coming on again soon, but when I looked again on the 8th when you could actually book and receive the 40% discount, I noticed a surge in the prices.

 

Even though we do get 40% off, we don't appreciate the practises they choose to use by lifting their rates y 40%.

 

We have therefor decided not to travel this time around as the 40% discount doesn't work out to be 40% as it was added to the actual prices that I saw a couple of weeks back, suffice to say I believe this to be illegal, but hey, their hotels, and their choice, if they want to scam some unsuspecting customers due to their desperation, well, desperation is not on our side.

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[tomyami]

you dont, wouldnt mind a few photos

 

[Leaver]

50 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Pattaya, Samui, and Phuket are still devastated. A tiny fraction of what they used to earn, is being seen now. Sure, they see a few busy days here and there. But the economy is in tatters. Nobody knows how many millions are out of work right now. 

 

One of the barometers of an economy are the billboards. I drove 500 km. today, and likely saw well over 100 large ones, that were blank. Some were crumbling, it had been that long since they were used. Hundreds of companies unwilling, or unable to spend the kind of money on marketing to support that industry. 

 

The ripple effect is huge. Look for a 5-7 year recovery, and over 20% sustained unemployment. And likely under 5 million international tourists a year, five years from now. 

 

The economic sabotage, willful or not, has been historic. Let us hope the creeps will be held to account. Covid is but one part of the puzzle. 

 

Let's not forget, Thailand already had record household debt, pre covid.  Default rates will be huge.  

[champers]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Pattaya, Samui, and Phuket are still devastated. A tiny fraction of what they used to earn, is being seen now. Sure, they see a few busy days here and there. But the economy is in tatters. Nobody knows how many millions are out of work right now. 

 

One of the barometers of an economy are the billboards. I drove 500 km. today, and likely saw well over 100 large ones, that were blank. Some were crumbling, it had been that long since they were used. Hundreds of companies unwilling, or unable to spend the kind of money on marketing to support that industry. 

 

The ripple effect is huge. Look for a 5-7 year recovery, and over 20% sustained unemployment. And likely under 5 million international tourists a year, five years from now. 

 

The economic sabotage, willful or not, has been historic. Let us hope the creeps will be held to account. Covid is but one part of the puzzle. 

Phuket and Khao Lak bounced back pretty well after the tsunami; Thais are incredibly resilient.

Pattaya has plenty of investment from the EEC developments which have slowed but not stopped during Covid.

[Lucky Bones]

Maha got it spot on.

Central Pattaya is now a disgusting hell hole. No-one either notices or cares.

I've loved it for so many years, but to now see filthy shuttered  doors and excrement on the fragile footpath is not the way of a world class family venture.

I live East Pattaya where life continues well.

Not bagging Pattaya Central, but at the moment it is a dump.

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

12 hours ago, internationalism said:

foreign tourists do bring foreign currency, stay for several weeks, spend over 5k per day on hotel, services and goods. 

From today's TAT projection for 2022 domestic tourists are counted 5300b per day, but it's grossly overestimated.

I think for thai a fraction, around 1k per day, is realistic. They would travel in family 4+ or largish group, stay all in one bungalow or large room. It would be only 1 night during weekend or 3-4 night extended holiday.

Even with special offers on agoda those jomtien hotels are empty even during weekends  

Iam glad you added "I think" to your post because it certainly is not based on facts.

[StevieAus]

Some of the hotel staff, taxi drivers, Tuk Tuk drivers, restaurant owners and staff etc etc, in Chiang Mai that I have spoken to over the past year, I think would differ with your view.

[internationalism]

15 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Iam glad you added "I think" to your post because it certainly is not based on facts.

so what is domestic tourism spending in thailand now?

TAT projections for 5300b per trip (not per day, as I have wrongly put) per person is still overestimate.

But for foreign tourists average spending, in covid situation, will be higher, then before, because budget tourists won't be coming and because there would be longer stays. TAT estimates 43k per trip.

 

 

[Old Croc]

12 hours ago, newnative said:

    Sorry, but what a stupid, thoughtless post from you.   Lighten up already.  He was commenting on observing some life on Jomtien Beach over the weekend, and remarking that it was nice to see the activity.  I noticed the same thing on Pattaya Beach the other weekend--lots of people around on the promenade, on the beach, sitting in the beach chairs, cars parked all along Beach Road.  It was great to see the activity there, too.   With restrictions eased, it's nice to see visitors from Bangkok and elsewhere starting to return on the weekends.   Pardon us for being happy to see 'a breath of life'. 

The stupid, thoughtless part of the OP was the implication in the title that nobody needs tourism any more.

Not having  a finger in the tourism pie, I also greatly enjoyed the scarcity of certain tourists, and their big smelly buses, polluting everything in my erstwhile home of Phuket. The recovery of environment, oceans and air. and the free flow of traffic was great to behold.

However, I'm able to understand that the dearth of the tourist was (continues to be) a massive blow to the country's economy and to the millions of workers whose lives are very badly impacted by the sudden closure of their livelihoods. 

It's thoughtless/selfish to imply that one persons enjoyment of a day out on the beach should lead to a permanent shutdown.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Old Croc

[newnative]

8 minutes ago, southcoast said:

Do you really think that a few people down from Bangkok and other places are going to boost tourism, they mostly bring there own food, sit on the beach or the side of the road, maybe a few beers from 7-11, maybe buy a bit of food from local carts, stay 1 or 2 nights then go back again. Yes it is nice to see (Thai) people out and about but if you think that’s going to get Thailand tourism back to normal , sorry, your on the wrong planet, now who’s the stupid one!.

     Maybe educate yourself a bit before making inaccurate and asinine comments.  I have a condo on north Pattaya Beach and it was easy to observe what was going on.   It wasn't just a few people and, no, most weren't bringing their own food and sitting on the side of the road.  Instead, they were staying at Dusit, and Holiday Inn, and Grand Centre Point, and Mytt, and Amari, and A-01, and Cape Dara, and some of the other hotels in north Pattaya Beach.   They were coming in enough numbers before the current lockdown for the mentioned hotels to reopen, and others, as well.  It was nice to see the activity on the weekends.  With the lockdown finally easing, hopefully they will start returning.  

     Also, don't attribute YOUR thoughts to me, thank you.  Re-read my post.  Nowhere in my post do I claim that domestic tourism will get 'Thailand tourism back to normal'.  You can keep that asinine comment--don't give it to me.  Of course it won't.  What I and the other poster said was it was nice to see some signs of life in Pattaya--even if it is mostly just on weekends for now.  Nice to not see everything closed.   Encouraging to see some lights on again in the big hotels.  Nobody is saying that some big hotels re-opening and some activity on weekends means tourism is back.  It's not.  But, it's nice to observe a breath of life here and there.  As I said to the other rude poster, lighten up already.  

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

The stupid, thoughtless part of the OP was the implication in the title that nobody needs tourism any more.

Not having  a finger in the tourism pie, I also greatly enjoyed the scarcity of certain tourists, and their big smelly buses, polluting everything in my erstwhile home of Phuket. The recovery of environment, oceans and air. and the free flow of traffic was great to behold.

However, I'm able to understand that the dearth of the tourist was (continues to be) a massive blow to the country's economy and to the millions of workers whose lives are very badly impacted by the sudden closure of their livelihoods. 

It's thoughtless/selfish to imply that one persons enjoyment of a day out on the beach should lead to a permanent shutdown.

 

 

   I don't think that was the point of the OP's post.  I think he was being facetious or flip.  Perhaps re-read his post.  He clearly states that the hotels, restaurants, and bars do need foreign tourists.  

[bbko]

Pattaya gets a little busy and the bickering on Aeseannow escalates.  You'd think any increase in visitors to Pattaya would be a good thing, the place is opening up.

[mr336]

1 hour ago, southcoast said:

Do you really think that a few people down from Bangkok and other places are going to boost tourism, they mostly bring there own food, sit on the beach or the side of the road, maybe a few beers from 7-11, maybe buy a bit of food from local carts, stay 1 or 2 nights then go back again. Yes it is nice to see (Thai) people out and about but if you think that’s going to get Thailand tourism back to normal , sorry, your on the wrong planet, now who’s the stupid one!.

This is what I witnessed On Jomtien road. Twas a glorious weekend for sure. Thai folk love to back their vehicles up to the beach and break out the coolers with drink n food. Prolly drive down Sat mornin and book a room for 1 night. Street vendor's must of made some cha ching over the weekend. 

 

I pulled over on the scooter several times checking out the beach scene and saw only Thai's, although I'm sure there were some Farangs scattered in the mix. The road was at a snail's pace. Local Farangs chillin in their favorite hang out but a whole bunch of Thai folk lining the beach. Haven't been here pre-covid. Beach road must be a madhouse.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Some of the hotel staff, taxi drivers, Tuk Tuk drivers, restaurant owners and staff etc etc, in Chiang Mai that I have spoken to over the past year, I think would differ with your view.

Yeah I agree... some  must be hurting. My Mrs just came back from the village and she brought 2 huge bags of rice and a cold box of prepared food for some kid from the village (from his family) who has a job at one of the well known hotels in Pattaya. He is working now, but reduced hours.

[Swiss1960]

15 hours ago, newnative said:

    Sorry, but what a stupid, thoughtless post from you.   Lighten up already.  He was commenting on observing some life on Jomtien Beach over the weekend, and remarking that it was nice to see the activity.  I noticed the same thing on Pattaya Beach the other weekend--lots of people around on the promenade, on the beach, sitting in the beach chairs, cars parked all along Beach Road.  It was great to see the activity there, too.   With restrictions eased, it's nice to see visitors from Bangkok and elsewhere starting to return on the weekends.   Pardon us for being happy to see 'a breath of life'. 

There are thousands of jobless, homeless and starving people living in the streets of Pattaya, which my family and our friends support to the best of our ability as often as possible. 

Implying that the few weekend travelers are enough - even on a funny note - is a slap in the face of these people and all the people who help them on a daily basis. 

 

I stand by my remark.

[KhunLA]

Answer to the OP's title - vendors who fail to satisfy the domestic tourism market.

 

Fool's folly to target seasonal int'l tourism for your survival when there's 70 million locals to cater to....everyday.

[nobodysfriend]

 Domestic tourism is highly promoted by the government , it eases the dire situation a little , but it will never be able to replace the income generated by the 40 mio foreign tourists that came here once , a long time ago ...

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

     Maybe educate yourself a bit before making inaccurate and asinine comments.  I have a condo on north Pattaya Beach and it was easy to observe what was going on.   It wasn't just a few people and, no, most weren't bringing their own food and sitting on the side of the road.  Instead, they were staying at Dusit, and Holiday Inn, and Grand Centre Point, and Mytt, and Amari, and A-01, and Cape Dara, and some of the other hotels in north Pattaya Beach.   They were coming in enough numbers before the current lockdown for the mentioned hotels to reopen, and others, as well.  It was nice to see the activity on the weekends.  With the lockdown finally easing, hopefully they will start returning.  

     Also, don't attribute YOUR thoughts to me, thank you.  Re-read my post.  Nowhere in my post do I claim that domestic tourism will get 'Thailand tourism back to normal'.  You can keep that asinine comment--don't give it to me.  Of course it won't.  What I and the other poster said was it was nice to see some signs of life in Pattaya--even if it is mostly just on weekends for now.  Nice to not see everything closed.   Encouraging to see some lights on again in the big hotels.  Nobody is saying that some big hotels re-opening and some activity on weekends means tourism is back.  It's not.  But, it's nice to observe a breath of life here and there.  As I said to the other rude poster, lighten up already.  

Wake up. Your own heading said 'Who needs foreign tourists ? ' . Maybe you've forgotten. Anyway, the answer is Thailand needs foreign tourists. 

[Tropposurfer]

"Who needs foreign tourists?" I don't.

[Harveyboy]

15 hours ago, Maha Sarakham said:

Naklua and Jomtien are fine due to the expat communities and weekend Bangkokians, Central Pattaya is still devastated.

yep pattaya sad sad  place for now 

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

   I don't think that was the point of the OP's post.  I think he was being facetious or flip.  Perhaps re-read his post.  He clearly states that the hotels, restaurants, and bars do need foreign tourists.  

If someone titles their post "Who needs foreign tourists?" and within the body of the text says "With crowds like this, who needs foreign tourists?", there can only really be two meanings.  One, genuine "Thailand doesn't need foreign tourists" and one sarcastic "Thailand needs foreign tourists, people who say they don't are wrong".

 

Judging by the post beneath the title, which, to me and many others, appears to be reporting a large numbers of domestic tourists, it would appear that the OP's use of the phrase "Who needs foreign tourists?" implies that foreign tourists are not needed because of the level of domestic tourism.

 

I think most people would agree that this is wrong and that Thailand does indeed "need" foreign tourists.

 

OP does go on to say "OK, I know, the hotels and restaurants and bars (if they ever reopen) need them", which still moves him closer to acknowledging the real situation, but doesn't fully capture the number of industries or individuals that have been impacted by the lack of tourism.

 

I'm sure OP either didn't fully consider, or wasn't aware of, the full impact of the lack of tourism.  I'm also sure they weren't being deliberately provocative.  But it remains that there is a pretty strong case for them being wrong about this, which makes correcting them quite reasonable.