Phuket immigration very strict on retirement extension requirements

[BE88]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

In my experience, immigration officers greatly prefer fixed term deposit accounts where there is no activity in the account at all (other than interest being earned).  The reason is that these types of accounts can be extremely easy to verify. 

 

Wrong for me recently IM was asked why I hadn't updated my fixed booklet 800.000 and they sent me back to the bank who told me it was impossible to add 100 B to have the date printed.

Never before are they really getting worse since they gave them the power with the new law to decide not following the demands of immigration laws.

I believe that in one of the next times I too will no longer receive my extension.

 

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

I wouldn't just give in at the first hurdle.

Well it was my friend who was ropeable, and I was just repeating his experience, although in another one of my posts I did recount a couple of other bad experiences with an I/O, so it's not the "first hurdle" scenario, but I will persevere. 

 

However it all depends on what happens next Monday when I go for my retirement extension, but great to know that I have an option in that I can use an agent if necessary, and it's very stress free.

 

PS. And for all of those doubters, I have all of my paperwork in line, had 800k in a fixed account for over a year, have regular transfers into my account from overseas and have spent over 1.2 million baht this past year, kept copies from previous years, and have liaised with the bank manager for all the necessary documents, have a nice pic of me in front of my apartment and a little diagram showing where it is, the only thing missing is a row of kisses xxxx!

[JetsetBkk]

49 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

You don't have to deposit on the day you go to immigration. You can withdraw 100Bt if you want. Just so long as there is an entry in your bank account for that day.

 

That's what I was thinking. My old statements often don't have a recent entry, so the I/O needs to see the date range printed at the top of the statement to to determine that it covers the whole year. But if you make a deposit or withdrawal just before you get the statement, the statement will show it in the list of activities.

 

I think I'll add that to my list of things to do before getting the extension.

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“ type of account” is clearly NOT Immi business and must be actually illegal ot outside regs. for them to raise that. Seasoned 800k proven in thai bank acc. Yes or No. thats it. Immi Goals are always Profit- Humiliation - Control.This bs is obviously Humiliation. Decided from the off years ago NEVER to comply with ANY Financials here. Used METV Six Month Tourist Visa for Years.F..k Retirement Visas.

ED Visa just expired. now Covid Extn.Last Resort : Now found Agent (IO) to provide Retirement Visa with Local Stamp & Reporting, as Final Option. METV Discontinued. THAT was Ideal for me.

[xylophone]

24 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Something is not right here. The monthly transaction is only required if you don't have the minimum of 800K for 5 months per year.

 

I think your 'friend' isn't telling the truth.

That's what I couldn't understand because he did have 900k in his account for over a year and he never touches it, in fact he doesn't need to.

 

As I've tried to explain previously, I think it may well be because that 900k is in a four year term deposit, and they wouldn't accept it, and in doing that, the only way he would have qualified for his extension would be the 65k per month regular income method, which he also didn't have because he brings in lumps at a time every couple of months and that doesn't satisfy their requirements.

 

That's all I can think, and he has no need to lie to me, so the above "explanation" seems feasible to me.

[JetsetBkk]

17 minutes ago, xylophone said:

However it all depends on what happens next Monday when I go for my retirement extension, but great to know that I have an option in that I can use an agent if necessary, and it's very stress free.

I'll make a note to come back to this topic on Monday!! Best of British luck to you!

[xylophone]

2 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

I'll make a note to come back to this topic on Monday!! Best of British luck to you!

Thank you for your good wishes, and out of respect for all of the others who have taken time to post on this thread, I will post how I got on, for better or for worse!

[ThailandRyan]

49 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Surely the Fixed account starts on the day you open it, be it 3, 6, 12 or 24 months, and matures on the appropriate date. How can it 're-align' to your extension date?

The bank reset the Fixed term because I added more money to the account.

[mvdf]

Explore the citizenship route to put an end to these immigration trials and tribulations. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, mvdf said:

Explore the citizenship route to put an end to these immigration trials and tribulations. 

Not doable if your a retiree and never worked here or paid taxes

[HeijoshinCool]

5 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

An agent ensures everything is in good order.

.

 

Yes, all the baht notes in the brown envelope are right-side up...

[clivebaxter]

6 hours ago, damascase said:

This is not being ‘very strict’, it’s a totally wrong application of the law.

In the hope he will go to an agent and the office will get a share out, corrupt, illegal and disgusting. Should have gone to the main in charge and put the 65k requirement to him with 900k in the bank and see what he said.

Edited October 16, 2021 by clivebaxter

[Digitalbanana]

53 minutes ago, xylophone said:

That's what I couldn't understand because he did have 900k in his account for over a year and he never touches it,

Maybe your friend and the IO had missed something in conversation? It's quiet simple really and doesn't need a 20kTHB agent.

 

There is no need for the monthly 65k/m if your friend already has 900k. What i suspect as already mentioned is 'he never touches it' as you say won't work. You need to make a single deposit/withdrawal on the day of visa extension into the 900k account and show it in the bank book so the latest balance is updated. I always do an online 10THB transfer in and out of my 800k account using my mobile phone app and then print the bank book out.

[JetsetBkk]

37 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

39 minutes ago, mvdf said:

Explore the citizenship route to put an end to these immigration trials and tribulations. 

Not doable if your a retiree and never worked here or paid taxes

And you can't sing.

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

That's what I couldn't understand because he did have 900k in his account for over a year and he never touches it, in fact he doesn't need to.

 

 

 

A term deposit is acceptable, I have used term deposit account before to present to immigration before for retirement purpose.

 

We can always withdraw our term deposit prematurely in case there is an emergency so I don't see any problem with that.

 

A mutual fund/investment account might be risky though... but a term deposit is always safe albeit with lower interest rate.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by EricTh

[xylophone]

15 hours ago, clivebaxter said:

In the hope he will go to an agent and the office will get a share out, corrupt, illegal and disgusting. Should have gone to the main in charge and put the 65k requirement to him with 900k in the bank and see what he said.

There was a thread a while back about this very subject and a copy of an in-house memorandum regarding this was posted and it is the one which guides the I/O's as to what they can and can't do with regards to retirement extensions and the like.

 

The astounding thing about it was the paragraph which stated something along the lines of, "the chief officer at an immigration office has the discretion to approve a retirement extension irrespective of the financial situation of the applicant".

 

So the head honcho can sign off anything he/she wants, and it is all "legal" as far as immigration is concerned, and the point I'm making is that this "get out" clause is open to "misuse" and IMO has obviously been included for a reason – – so this avenue is open and is not considered "illegal and disgusting" however it could be misused. Go figure.

[MajorTom]

A friend of mine was denied retirement extension years ago in Phuket for using a fixed-term deposit account. It caused major hassle for him. He had to move the 800K and re-season them etc.

You just cant be 100% certain with immigration.

 

This attitude of "i always do everything by the book and never had any problems/using agents is illegal bla bla." only lasts for so long. If you meet the wrong guy, they will actually break/or add their own rules to make problems for you. I have countless examples of this just among my friends.

 

[berrec]

Things have been slow for IM donations with COVID so expect as things open up they will find reasons not to approve your visa applications and drive you to use Visa agents.

 

It getting close to Christmas so the chain of command need those donations to stock up their Christmas hampers. 5555

[Expat68]

Welcome to the real world, my immigration is strict and always has been, I have talked to my friends from other parts of Thailand and look at me in disbelief what I have to do

[Doctor Tom]

Use an agent 

[ThailandRyan]

Just now, Doctor Tom said:

Use an agent 

Why when it is so easy not to if you have your ducks in a row.

[Doctor Tom]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

"the chief officer at an immigration office has the discretion to approve a retirement extension irrespective of the financial situation of the applicant".

And that's why we should all use an agent. Don't try to buck the system, or pretend that you understand it, you don't. Use someone who knows how it works and works within it.  You're not in Kansas any more. 

[Doctor Tom]

2 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Why when it is so easy not to if you have your ducks in a row.

This post explains why 

[chilly07]

To me a retirement extension for an expat means regular payments from outside the country into a Thai bank the source of which is immaterial. The 800k deposit in a bank for 1 yr plus the need to maintain for 3 mths then top up again 3 mths before next extension is entirely designed to prompt the use of agents with a substantial fee to immigration. The 65k mthly from outside Thailand into a Thai bank is clearly for retirement purposes doesn't require large deposits for extended periods and is used for daily expenses so doesn't need an agent and doesn't bring suspicion about working in Thailand or income from dubious sources. If I were immigration I would ban the deposit method as most open to abuse but then I would be cutting off a fee revenue stream for the local office.

This is why Immigration encourage the use of agent facilitated retirement extensions over the marriage route and explains why agents come into the Immigration Office with piles of passports without backup paperwork for routine signatures in advance of patient customers with full paperwork waiting for individual review by irritable officers who would prefer agents to handle all extensions

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, Doctor Tom said:

This post explains why 

Maybe for you, but it's not an issue for many others and I refuse to line someone's pockets when it can be done if you follow the rules and have all the paperwork needed.  Sometimes there is more than meets the eye in someone's post.  A few have been caught out when the money dipped below the required amount even slightly and then when a deposit was not credited in the right month or was listed as an internal transfer instead of an International transfer.  All easily taken care of if you pay attention.   But hey if you want to throw away 20k because you don't want to do your due diligence then that's your call, as well as for those that play the game and do not meet the requirements.

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

To me a retirement extension for an expat means regular payments from outside the country into a Thai bank the source of which is immaterial. The 800k deposit in a bank for 1 yr plus the need to maintain for 3 mths then top up again 3 mths before next extension is entirely designed to prompt the use of agents with a substantial fee to immigration. The 65k mthly from outside Thailand into a Thai bank is clearly for retirement purposes doesn't require large deposits for extended periods and is used for daily expenses so doesn't need an agent and doesn't bring suspicion about working in Thailand or income from dubious sources. If I were immigration I would ban the deposit method as most open to abuse but then I would be cutting off a fee revenue stream for the local office.

This is why Immigration encourage the use of agent facilitated retirement extensions over the marriage route and explains why agents come into the Immigration Office with piles of passports without backup paperwork for routine signatures in advance of patient customers with full paperwork waiting for individual review by irritable officers who would prefer agents to handle all extensions

Your 800K example as being an example why it is a prompt to use an agent is just not true, unless of course one does not meet the requirement and then plays the game.  Many of use use the Money in the bank fixed deposit route and have never had an issue. Due diligence is required and paying attention to your funds is always of importance to ensure you don't find yourself on the wrong side and get denied.

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, MajorTom said:

A friend of mine was denied retirement extension years ago in Phuket for using a fixed-term deposit account. It caused major hassle for him. He had to move the 800K and re-season them etc.

You just cant be 100% certain with immigration.

 

This attitude of "i always do everything by the book and never had any problems/using agents is illegal bla bla." only lasts for so long. If you meet the wrong guy, they will actually break/or add their own rules to make problems for you. I have countless examples of this just among my friends.

 

"I always do everything by the book and never had any problems" pretty much sums up my attitude towards immigration.  I don't think everything that agents do is illegal.  I do think I'm not interested in paying for their services.  I've been doing all my own immigration business for about 9 years, so I figure I've saved myself 198,000 baht (22,000 baht x 9 years) that otherwise would have gone to agents.

My business is going to immigration twice a year, one day to submit my retirement extension application, returning the next day to pick up my extension and get a re-entry permit.  I do my 90-Day Reports online (when that's working) otherwise I use the Phuket Immigration drive-through which takes about 5 minutes.  I may go to immigration to get a Certificate of Residence but now I'm finding that more places (for example the Land Transport Office) will accept a yellow house registration book instead so that doesn't happen every year.  And for doing all that work, I earn 22,000 baht in fees I don't pay an agent.  So, yeah, that works for me.

As for people's stories about their bad experiences with immigration, I have noticed a tendency for people to ascribe all the fault for a bad interaction to the other party and none of the fault to themselves.  I guess that's human nature.  Also, I've come to realize that some (many?) people haven't the foggiest notion of what the rules surrounding immigration issues are supposed to be.  A large number of these stories therefore fall apart upon close examination.  For the real bad experiences, one does have the option to "fix" the problem by using an agent.  So I guess if that ever happens to me and I can't resolve the issue on my own then I'll be using an agent.  Until that happens I'm happy to keep my money and the nice feeling that comes by knowing that "I'm doing everything by the book."  I take the same attitude toward the Internal Revenue Service and so far the results have been similar.

[Tropposurfer]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:24 PM, worgeordie said:

Maybe that is the reason why.....I am sure the agent does not get

to keep the 22 K Baht all to himself.

regards Worgeordie

Yep Wogeordie spot-on! I can share just how rotten the barrel is there.

[xylophone]

27 minutes ago, skatewash said:

"I always do everything by the book and never had any problems" pretty much sums up my attitude towards immigration.  I don't think everything that agents do is illegal.  I do think I'm not interested in paying for their services.  I've been doing all my own immigration business for about 9 years, so I figure I've saved myself 198,000 baht (22,000 baht x 9 years) that otherwise would have gone to agents.

Well, I've always done everything by the book and I have been doing my own immigration business for 15 years now.

 

However I have encountered problems, one of which in particular irks me, whereby I was using the 400k in the bank and monthly overseas transfers making up the total to more than 800k, which is okay according to immigration, however the I/O took a dislike to my doing this and grumpily told me I should do the full amount in the bank next year, whilst glaring at me. So I did.

 

My friends experience has puzzled me, and he has no reason to lie so????

 

However, as I have said, I will be visiting immigration on Monday morning to get my extension, and we'll see what happens. 
 

[xylophone]

On 10/16/2021 at 12:24 PM, worgeordie said:

Maybe that is the reason why.....I am sure the agent does not get

to keep the 22 K Baht all to himself.

regards Worgeordie

In my friend's case, something which totally surprised him was that the agent put his 20,000 baht into an envelope (no not brown) and handed it to the I/O, in front of him, and when he asked what her fee was, she quoted 2000 baht, which he happily paid.

 

So we know it goes on, but then such things are endemic here in Thailand, and there's nothing much we can do about it, and as for those people who suggest one should go to the chief in charge and complain, well they obviously haven't thought it through!
 

Edited October 17, 2021 by xylophone