Thailand’s Khao Kheow Open Zoo defends elephant swimming shows

[webfact]

 

Khao Kheow Open Zoo, in Thailand’s eastern province of Chon Buri, will continue holding elephant swimming shows for tourists despite social media criticism, alleging cruelty to animals, after a picture, titled “Elephant in the Room”, taken by Adam Oswell of Australia, won the best picture in the photojournalism category at the Wildlife Photographer of the Year Awards 2021, organized by Natural History Museum in London.

 

In an exclusive interview with Thai PBS, the zoo’s director, Tewin Rattanawongsawat, said that this is not the first time that elephant swimming shows have been described as torture. He argued that swimming is natural behaviour for elephants as they, by nature, love to be in water for several hours at a time and they can swim long distances.

 

He also said that the elephants on show are not forced, because there is no mahout riding them. Instead, he said, the animals are allowed to swim freely in the glass room and, after each show, they are given food as a reward.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thailands-khao-kheow-open-zoo-defends-elephant-swimming-shows/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-10-19

 

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[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

He also said that the elephants on show are not forced, because there is no mahout riding them. Instead, he said, the animals are allowed to swim freely in the glass room and, after each show, they are given food as a reward.

That's called training, reward for actions.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

The alternative, since elephants are no longer required for logging, is to do such shows for tourists, or be put to death IMO.

Elephants cost a lot to look after, and if they don't earn their living, they will not be cared for. I read about one elephant that was chained up to a tree in a wat because no one wanted it- now that IMO is cruel.

Release into the jungle is not really viable, if only because domesticated elephants probably wouldn't survive anyway.

[khunPer]

Elephants actually loves water and are excellent swimmers, according to science. It's good to let them swim and be activated...????

 

Quote

Elephants are also known for their ability to swim in deep water. They may look awkward in water, but elephants are actually excellent swimmers. They're known to readily cross rivers, or even shallow stretches of ocean when they feel it's worth the trouble.

Source: "Must Watch: Elephants and Camels spotted swimming across the Ocean".

[pacovl46]

Frankly I don’t see the problem. As the article says, elephants love water and as long as they don’t have to perform tricks it’s all good.

[thaibeachlovers]

55 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Frankly I don’t see the problem. As the article says, elephants love water and as long as they don’t have to perform tricks it’s all good.

Why should they not perform tricks? Humans have to to earn a living, so why are elephants exempt from earning their keep? Would you rather they were put down as too expensive to keep alive?

Horses learn tricks, dogs learn tricks, birds learn tricks, and we don't say that's wrong.

[PremiumLane]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why should they not perform tricks? Humans have to to earn a living, so why are elephants exempt from earning their keep? Would you rather they were put down as too expensive to keep alive?

Horses learn tricks, dogs learn tricks, birds learn tricks, and we don't say that's wrong.

Maybe you should look up how they teach elephants to do tricks, they are not like dogs! 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Sad that in the 21st century, some humans still exploit animals for profit. 

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why should they not perform tricks? Humans have to to earn a living, so why are elephants exempt from earning their keep? Would you rather they were put down as too expensive to keep alive?

Horses learn tricks, dogs learn tricks, birds learn tricks, and we don't say that's wrong.

I think people do actually these days....the Tigers at the Tiger Zoo, the monkeys and many others... for the entertainment of people, even the crocs. Elephants seem to draw out more sympathy being mostly docile and trusting beasts. I feel forry for them frustrated, tethered on short chains, blood and scars in their sides. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by jacko45k

[pacovl46]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:20 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Why should they not perform tricks? Humans have to to earn a living, so why are elephants exempt from earning their keep? Would you rather they were put down as too expensive to keep alive?

Horses learn tricks, dogs learn tricks, birds learn tricks, and we don't say that's wrong.

If humans wouldn’t capture elephants and domesticate them then they would “earn their living” by living out their natural life, instead their kept as pets. And yeah, they are expensive to keep, but here’s the kicker: if you can’t afford to feed them then just don’t fricking keep them in the first place! 
 

Also, some of the tricks they used to have elephants do and in some places still do is have them walk on tightropes which is totally unnatural for them and it hurts their feet. Most of the  tricks you teach a dog on the contrary play off of what they would do/like to do anyway - big difference! And to get them to do anything for humans at all you have to break them down while they’re still very small. There’s videos online that show how they do that and it’s literally physical and psychological torture! 
 

By the way, to keep animals that would normally roam huge pastures in small places like zoos is effed up already and then have them perform tricks for your perverse pleasure on top of that is degrading.

 

But since you seem to be so in favor of them performing tricks then why don’t we introduce human prisoners performing tricks for people like you to watch?! They could run around on all fours like dogs and jump through hoops on fire and do all sorts of stuff that’s totally unnatural to humans! Wouldn’t that be a sight?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/20/2021 at 3:28 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Sad that in the 21st century, some humans still exploit animals for profit. 

It is, but we exploit humans without a thought. Ever bought cheap shoes- probably made by exploited humans in China or other Asian countries.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/20/2021 at 3:28 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Sad that in the 21st century, some humans still exploit animals for profit. 

I agree, but in a world where we can shoot wild animals for "sport", it's probably inevitable.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

If humans wouldn’t capture elephants and domesticate them then they would “earn their living” by living out their natural life, instead their kept as pets. And yeah, they are expensive to keep, but here’s the kicker: if you can’t afford to feed them then just don’t fricking keep them in the first place! 
 

Also, some of the tricks they used to have elephants do and in some places still do is have them walk on tightropes which is totally unnatural for them and it hurts their feet. Most of the  tricks you teach a dog on the contrary play off of what they would do/like to do anyway - big difference! And to get them to do anything for humans at all you have to break them down while they’re still very small. There’s videos online that show how they do that and it’s literally physical and psychological torture! 
 

By the way, to keep animals that would normally roam huge pastures in small places like zoos is effed up already and then have them perform tricks for your perverse pleasure on top of that is degrading.

 

But since you seem to be so in favor of them performing tricks then why don’t we introduce human prisoners performing tricks for people like you to watch?! They could run around on all fours like dogs and jump through hoops on fire and do all sorts of stuff that’s totally unnatural to humans! Wouldn’t that be a sight?

I'm all for punishing criminals by such activities, but that's a deflection.

 

quote

And yeah, they are expensive to keep, but here’s the kicker: if you can’t afford to feed them then just don’t fricking keep them in the first place! 

end quote

 

As that would probably involve killing them, are you willing to pull the trigger?

Domesticated elephants released into the wild, if that was even possible, would probably die, and elephants are killed all the time for intruding on human habitations.

 

You may dream of a perfect world, but I have lived in the real world, and it's not nice for animals, whether as beasts of burden, or as food. You think native people's that use huskies in the far north keep them alive after they can't pull a sled? Let's not forget Amundsen that fed surplus dogs to the other dogs on his trek to the pole. Meant he had to take less dog food along.

 

 

[pacovl46]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm all for punishing criminals by such activities, but that's a deflection.

 

quote

And yeah, they are expensive to keep, but here’s the kicker: if you can’t afford to feed them then just don’t fricking keep them in the first place! 

end quote

 

As that would probably involve killing them, are you willing to pull the trigger?

Domesticated elephants released into the wild, if that was even possible, would probably die, and elephants are killed all the time for intruding on human habitations.

 

You may dream of a perfect world, but I have lived in the real world, and it's not nice for animals, whether as beasts of burden, or as food. You think native people's that use huskies in the far north keep them alive after they can't pull a sled? Let's not forget Amundsen that fed surplus dogs to the other dogs on his trek to the pole. Meant he had to take less dog food along.

 

 

I’m perfectly aware that most domesticated animals can’t be released into the world! That’s not the point I was trying to make! The point I was actually trying to make is don’t domesticate them in the first place if you have then have to make them perform tricks to make money so you can afford to feed them! 
 

And I’ve only used the example of making prisoners perform tricks to show how ridiculous the other guy’s idea was! 
 

I’m also perfectly aware of the fact that a lot of animals don’t live nice lives because of us, hence I don’t want elephants having to perform tricks so their keepers can afford to keep them! 

 

So, why don’t you take your real life high horse and ride off into the sunset with it instead of being on my back?!

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/22/2021 at 12:40 PM, pacovl46 said:

So, why don’t you take your real life high horse and ride off into the sunset with it instead of being on my back?!

55555555555555555

If you don't want me to reply to you don't quote me. Pretty simple!

[pacovl46]

On 10/25/2021 at 5:02 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

55555555555555555

If you don't want me to reply to you don't quote me. Pretty simple!

I was just trying to give you an easy way out to keep you from embarrassing yourself even further, but obviously you didn’t grasp that either! 

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

I was just trying to give you an easy way out to keep you from embarrassing yourself even further, but obviously you didn’t grasp that either! 

I'm not embarrassed.

Jai yen, jai yen.

Edited October 26, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[pacovl46]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm not embarrassed.

Jai yen, jai yen.

And that’s precisely the problem! You don’t even know why your “opinion” is wrong. 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

And that’s precisely the problem! You don’t even know why your “opinion” is wrong. 

I understand completely why YOU think you are right and I'm wrong, and it's just your "opinion".

No one ever convinced another of anything by claiming to be the last word, and shouting at them.

[BritManToo]

On 10/20/2021 at 2:46 PM, pacovl46 said:

By the way, to keep animals that would normally roam huge pastures in small places like zoos is effed up already and then have them perform tricks for your perverse pleasure on top of that is degrading.

The elephant camp in Mae Rim lets their elephants roam free in the jungle when they weren't working. They come when they're called.

 

I don't think anyone expected the paying tourists to all disappear for two years, I don't consider elephants to be 'special' or more important than dogs, buffalo, horses, donkeys, rabbits, et al.

Edited October 28, 2021 by BritManToo

[pacovl46]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The elephant camp in Mae Rim lets their elephants roam free in the jungle when they weren't working. They come when they're called.

 

I don't think anyone expected the paying tourists to all disappear for two years, I don't consider elephants to be 'special' or more important than dogs, buffalo, horses, donkeys, rabbits, et al.

Except they need to be broken to become pets! Watch the videos, it’s literally torture. 
 

Kudos to the Mae Rim camp then. 

[pacovl46]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I understand completely why YOU think you are right and I'm wrong, and it's just your "opinion".

No one ever convinced another of anything by claiming to be the last word, and shouting at them.

Well, if you think it’s right to teach animals like elephants tricks so the owner can afford their upkeep then you’re wrong and you simply don’t get that and that’s all there is to it! And you can come up with as many “words of wisdom” and twist and turn it until you turn green, it won’t change the fact that you’re wrong about that!