"Covid: Double vaccinated can still spread virus at home - BBC

https://www.bbc.com › news › health-59077036

Oct 28, 2564 BE — Double jabbed people are catching Covid and passing it on to those they live with, warn experts who have studied UK household cases. "

A post with unsubstantiated COVID vaccine claims has been removed, along with two replies. Also a duplicate post.

 

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

"Covid: Double vaccinated can still spread virus at home - BBC

https://www.bbc.com › news › health-59077036

Oct 28, 2564 BE — Double jabbed people are catching Covid and passing it on to those they live with, warn experts who have studied UK household cases. "

Nice link.

Seems to me you and Jeff are agreeing violently that vaccines substantially reduce transmision, serious illness and death.

 

As for how much they help, from what I've read it depends on the variant, the vaccine, the age group, the time since vaccination and maybe other factors. Not worth a barfight imho!

 

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"Covid: Double vaccinated can still spread virus at home - BBC

https://www.bbc.com › news › health-59077036

Oct 28, 2564 BE — Double jabbed people are catching Covid and passing it on to those they live with, warn experts who have studied UK household cases. "

Once again you return to your primary habit of posting half truths.

 

The real and full truth is that people who are double vaccinated are far less likely to catch COVID, far less likely to have a breakthrough infection and far less likely to transmit COVID than those who are not vaccinated.

 

But of course you know this, you simply neglected to mention it.

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"Covid: Double vaccinated can still spread virus at home - BBC

https://www.bbc.com › news › health-59077036

Oct 28, 2564 BE — Double jabbed people are catching Covid and passing it on to those they live with, warn experts who have studied UK household cases. "

But, if all the housemantes are vaccinate, transmission is less likely. As the article clearly states.

On 11/12/2021 at 3:46 AM, fjb 24 said:

Although some say vaccinated are less likely to get covid infection read the latest stats from UK-HSA which show more vaccinated are getting infected,  sick & hospitalized compared to non vaccinated, (in some age groups, 30 up).

 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1032859/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_45.pdf

 

Effects of OAS (Original Antigenic Sin)?

Worth taking a look at.

 

Need a booster now as protection is waning with J&J down to 3% after 6 months. Moderna and Pfizer protection waning as well. Need a jab every 6 months for an ailment that has about a 98% survival rate. Staying fit is a good idea, especially now.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211019/Waning-COVID-vaccine-efficacy-especially-against-reinfection.aspx

The higher the vaccination rate, the higher the number of people with Covid will have been vaccinated.  If you have 100% of a group vaccinated and they have 1 breakthrough case, then 100% of the infected people will be vaccinated.  It's known as the 'vaccine paradox'.  It does not change the effectiveness of the vaccines.

 

We need to keep in mind that the elderly, immunocompromised and those with other conditions are still at higher risk of getting Covid and of a negative outcome.  Since many of these groups were vaccinated earlier than others, they are/were experiencing waning immunity earlier.  It should also be noted that many immunocompromised and elderly NEVER mounted a decent immune response to begin with.  

 

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"Covid: Double vaccinated can still spread virus at home - BBC

https://www.bbc.com › news › health-59077036

Oct 28, 2564 BE — Double jabbed people are catching Covid and passing it on to those they live with, warn experts who have studied UK household cases. "

This is well known.  What's your point?

9 hours ago, Scott said:

The higher the vaccination rate, the higher the number of people with Covid will have been vaccinated.  If you have 100% of a group vaccinated and they have 1 breakthrough case, then 100% of the infected people will be vaccinated.  It's known as the 'vaccine paradox'.  It does not change the effectiveness of the vaccines.

 

We need to keep in mind that the elderly, immunocompromised and those with other conditions are still at higher risk of getting Covid and of a negative outcome.  Since many of these groups were vaccinated earlier than others, they are/were experiencing waning immunity earlier.  It should also be noted that many immunocompromised and elderly NEVER mounted a decent immune response to begin with.  

 

In addition to which many elderly are living in care homes where, due to proximity, sharing facilities and shared space, the virus has an easy path to infecting large numbers of already immune compromised individuals.

 

21 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

But unvaccinated do it 10x or more

Got some data, testing results, proof, evidence, etc to substantiate that claim?

If so, please share it hear.

2 hours ago, fjb 24 said:

Got some data, testing results, proof, evidence, etc to substantiate that claim?

If so, please share it hear.

 

14 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

 

I read the entire article and there is nothing to back up their argument other than assumptions and data statistics.

1 hour ago, teacherofwoe said:

I read the entire article and there is nothing to back up their argument other than assumptions and data statistics.

It's laid out perfectly there.  What are you struggling to understand?

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weeds 10-29-21&utm_term=The Weeds

 

People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

 

“They absolutely do reduce transmission,” says Christopher Byron Brooke at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. “Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.”

 

A recent study found that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant are 63 per cent less likely to infect people who are unvaccinated.

 

 

This is only slightly lower than with the alpha variant, says Brechje de Gier at the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment in the Netherlands, who led the study. Her team had previously found that vaccinated people infected with alpha were 73 per cent less likely to infect unvaccinated people.

On 11/16/2021 at 1:36 PM, AChan41 said:

 

Diving deeper, there are a few things to consider on this:

 

1. The initial viral load of the person receiving the infection is determined by the viral load coming in not by whether the person receiving the infection is vaccinated or not.

 

2. The viral load coming from an infected vaccinated person will be lower (all else being equal) than the viral load coming from an infected unvaccinated person.

 

3. Very soon after the initial infection, the viral load of an infected vaccinated person is lower than an infected unvaccinated person, due to the vaccine acting on the virus.

 

4. An infected vaccinated person can deal better and more quickly with covid than an infected unvaccinated person regardless of the size of the initial viral load.

 

 

I know the grammar above is a bit convoluted but I'm trying to be precise enough to avoid confusion, not to add to confusion ????

 

The takeaway from all of this is of course that vaccines reduce transmission, the severity of illness, and death, and a large part of that process is due to vaccines reducing viral load.

 

And all of this is time-since-vaccination dependent of course.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01575-4

 

 

 

2 hours ago, teacherofwoe said:

I read the entire article and there is nothing to back up their argument other than assumptions and data statistics.

Nothing to back up their argument other than data is what you meant to say.

44 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Diving deeper, there are a few things to consider on this:

 

1. The initial viral load of the person receiving the infection is determined by the viral load coming in not by whether the person receiving the infection is vaccinated or not.

 

2. The viral load coming from an infected vaccinated person will be lower (all else being equal) than the viral load coming from an infected unvaccinated person.

 

3. Very soon after the initial infection, the viral load of an infected vaccinated person is lower than an infected unvaccinated person, due to the vaccine acting on the virus.

 

4. An infected vaccinated person can deal better and more quickly with covid than an infected unvaccinated person regardless of the size of the initial viral load.

 

 

I know the grammar above is a bit convoluted but I'm trying to be precise enough to avoid confusion, not to add to confusion ????

 

The takeaway from all of this is of course that vaccines reduce transmission, the severity of illness, and death, and a large part of that process is due to vaccines reducing viral load.

 

And all of this is time-since-vaccination dependent of course.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01575-4

 

 

 

Also, the viruses coming from an vaccinated person are generally plastered with antibodies. So their potency may also be decreased.

On 11/16/2021 at 12:56 AM, Jeffr2 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/11/world/europe/germany-covid-unvaccinated.html

Germany’s Fourth Covid Wave: ‘A Pandemic of the Unvaccinated’

Germany once set an example for how to manage the coronavirus. Now, deep pockets of vaccine resistance are helping drive daily infections to new heights.

^{"In Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older [[2]]. This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27."}

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08

 

People need to stop blaming and trying to shame the non vaccinated. The narrative you are attempting to shape about pandemic of unvaccinated has become an untenable position with the evidence and factual data supporting refuting that. Should just stop and focus instead on being fact based and more helpful.

14 hours ago, i84teen said:

^{"In Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older [[2]]. This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27."}

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08

 

People need to stop blaming and trying to shame the non vaccinated. The narrative you are attempting to shape about pandemic of unvaccinated has become an untenable position with the evidence and factual data supporting refuting that. Should just stop and focus instead on being fact based and more helpful.

What?  You're in the minority regarding this.  It's well documented. 

A personal attack has been removed

On 11/16/2021 at 4:51 PM, Jeffr2 said:

I read credible media outlets. Lots of articles here have been posted for your review.

You and the rest are wrong as usual. Viral loads are similar in both vaxxed and normal people.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext#seccestitle160

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/double-jabbed-carry-same-viral-load-of-covid-as-unvaccinated/ar-AANuNXh

8 hours ago, i84teen said:

You and the rest are wrong as usual. Viral loads are similar in both vaxxed and normal people.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext#seccestitle160

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/double-jabbed-carry-same-viral-load-of-covid-as-unvaccinated/ar-AANuNXh

You just post nonsense. Why?

 

The findings are yet to be peer reviewed.

2 hours ago, i84teen said:

You and the rest are wrong as usual. Viral loads are similar in both vaxxed and normal people.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext#seccestitle160

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/double-jabbed-carry-same-viral-load-of-covid-as-unvaccinated/ar-AANuNXh

The Lancet  study does not support your argument.

 

"In our cohort of densely sampled household contacts exposed to the delta variant, "

 

"our findings suggest that vaccination alone is not sufficient to prevent all transmission of the delta variant in the household setting, where exposure is close and prolonged."

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The Lancet  study does not support your argument.

 

"In our cohort of densely sampled household contacts exposed to the delta variant, "

 

"our findings suggest that vaccination alone is not sufficient to prevent all transmission of the delta variant in the household setting, where exposure is close and prolonged."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/double-jabbed-carry-same-viral-load-of-covid-as-unvaccinated/ar-AANuNXh

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/565831-fauci-amount-of-virus-in-breakthrough-delta-cases-almost-identical

 

10 minutes ago, i84teen said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/double-jabbed-carry-same-viral-load-of-covid-as-unvaccinated/ar-AANuNXh

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/565831-fauci-amount-of-virus-in-breakthrough-delta-cases-almost-identical

 

yawn....

In break through cases. What about the cases which didn't break through? I'll give you a hint: that's most of them. Break though cases have been described by professionals as "very rare".

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/risk-breakthrough-infections-remains-rare-3-studies-find-rcna1854

Just now, i84teen said:

LoL, yeah deflect a little more! Speaking of viral loads, this from the cdc:

"Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people.

Okay, you get it yet? This concerted effort to deflect and deny, confuse, etc is getting old with you. You act like I make this <deleted> up, but it is you making smoke here. Stop worrying about losing your face, and be a happy loser.

The fact remains that the vast majority of people who are vaccinated don't get infected because of the vaccine. You don't seem to get that.

On 10/30/2021 at 11:11 AM, HappyExpat57 said:

Respectfully, hasn't this subject been beaten to death? There are two camps: Those who accept the science and those who don't. You are not likely to change minds using science/facts. Just sayin'.

Looking October 30th.

 

Your totally right.  December 3rd and burnt out trying to convince antivaxers to vaccinate.

 

Now its getting harder to do much without vaccines thankfully.

3 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Looking October 30th.

 

Your totally right.  December 3rd and burnt out trying to convince antivaxers to vaccinate.

 

Now its getting harder to do much without vaccines thankfully.

The biggest issue is not so much convincing anti vaxers to vaccinate but preventing them from trying to convince others not to vaccinate. By doing that they are literally killing people.

Now that there a re a few medicines underway for Covid , would anti vaxxers will be removed from having them also ?

At least there's more and more countries making vaccines mandatory , won't take long before it happening .

6 hours ago, i84teen said:

You and the rest are wrong as usual. Viral loads are similar in both vaxxed and normal people.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext#seccestitle160

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/double-jabbed-carry-same-viral-load-of-covid-as-unvaccinated/ar-AANuNXh

Well, here's the interpretation of the results from the scientists who conducted the lancet study:

Interpretation

"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

 

As for the second and earlier study, here's what the researches said...

" Based on their work, the researchers said that although jabs did not eliminate chances of getting Covid-19, they did reduce the risk and remained the most effective way to ensure protection against the Delta variant."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/double-jabbed-carry-same-viral-load-of-covid-as-unvaccinated/ar-AANuNXh

 

You should really read these articles before you link to them.

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