Pattaya retirees feel “trapped” in Thailand because of insurance

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherHun said:

...biut you never took care of sick buffaloes, an essential part of western life in SEA ????

Only essential for the fools.  

[JustAnotherHun]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Only essential for the fools.  

and there are many.

[cranki]

I do feel sorry for guys that can't afford to live in Thailand......I used to be very apathetic, but now find myself feeling a little bit more empathetic.....keep counting your satangs guys ????

[GrandPapillon]

Thais, like in the rest of SE Asia, are no longer interested in "housing" old dinosaurs ????

 

no matter the money, they don't see a valuable return with that population, as sad as it is

 

it's time for older expats to move back to Europe or Latin America, they have been historical places to go for retirement

 

obviously, globalization was a boost for SE Asia, and that lasted as much as it could. It's game over now.

[Rimmer]

Multiple bickering and baiting posts that succeed in hijacking the topic have now all been removed  also and replies.

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

More dogs probably not more wives

 

Do i need to own the land to sell my condo..... as mentioned, you've no idea - yawn!

 

Why on earth would i have rubber trees? what a peculiar comment ( even for you ).....very strange.

 

I deleted the post.  You must have quoted it very quickly.

 

However, I will continue to humour you.

 

Do the dogs talk back to you?  Can they cook and clean?  

 

Forget about selling.  That's not going to happen.  Your properties are anchor.  Leave them in your will to your dogs.

 

Of course you have a worthless farm in Issan.  Just admit it.  

[HashBrownHarry]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

Do the dogs talk back to you?  Can they cook and clean?  

I can communicate with my dogs, yes - great company. I have staff to clean, cook AND tend to my garden.

 

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Forget about selling.  That's not going to happen.  Your properties are anchor.

Something else you're an expert in is it? Expert in 4K a month shoe boxes perhaps.

 

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Of course you have a worthless farm in Issan.  Just admit it. 

Is this the only part of Thailand ( outwith Soi 6 ) that you've ever heard of? Why on earth would i have a farm??? you're very strange indeed.

[JustAnotherHun]

48 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

Thais, like in the rest of SE Asia, are no longer interested in "housing" old dinosaurs ????

The wealthier ones will always be welcome. In Thailand and any other country worldwide.

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

I can communicate with my dogs, yes - great company. I have staff to clean, cook AND tend to my garden.

 

Doesn't the condo management take care of the garden?   ????  

 

3 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Something else you're an expert in is it?

 

Yes.  I am multi skilled.  

 

You are "trapped" Harry.  

 

4 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Why on earth would i have a farm??

 

So your Thai wife would actually marry you.  ????   

 

 

[cranki]

5 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

The wealthier ones will always be welcome. In Thailand and any other country worldwide.

This word "wealthy" seems to get bandied around a lot on this forum.....one doesn't have to be "wealthy"(define wealthy) to be able to afford the necessary funds for insurance/money in the bank/visa fees, etc.....I would call that as just being comfortable.

 

[GrandPapillon]

11 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

The wealthier ones will always be welcome. In Thailand and any other country worldwide.

the wealthier ones don't settle, they travel

[JustAnotherHun]

I wrote "wealthier", not "wealthy".

Wealthier in the meaning of "no problems to meet the requirements" of the country you like to live/retire in.

Edited November 14, 2021 by JustAnotherHun

[ChrisP24]

Out of curiosity, does anyone on here know whether it has it been established yet whether Tricare (Tricare For Life health coverage for retired U.S. military over age 65) meets these new requirements?  If so that would be a magic bullet for those eligible, eliminating issues with cost / pre-existing conditions / aging out of eligibility for private coverage. 

 

Same question on other countries' coverage for their retired military.

Edited November 14, 2021 by ChrisP24

[Captain Monday]

36 minutes ago, ChrisP24 said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone on here know whether it has it been established yet whether Tricare (Tricare For Life health coverage for retired U.S. military over age 65) meets these new requirements?  If so that would be a magic bullet for those eligible, eliminating issues with cost / pre-existing conditions / aging out of eligibility for private coverage. 

 

Same question on other countries' coverage for their retired military.

You need to present some kind of Official looking Insurance Certificate tfrom Tricare that clearly shows dates of cover and $ amount of coverage.

 

I have great insurance. No lifetime limit of cover. However as I get it from EMPLOYMENT to my US based company it is useless for Thailand's needs. Normally coverage ends the last day of the month you retire, quit or get terminated or die. So honestly there is no way the insurance company can show an appropriate period of coverage for visa/entry reasons and no way to pay in advance so I am forced to buy a redundant Thai policy or "Travel Insurance" now.

 

Thanks Covid-19!

[Rimmer]

More off topic insults and replies removed, you should stop the bickering between you now.

[hereforgood]

On 11/4/2021 at 1:13 PM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Work permit holders are exempted as we have Thai social security. 

As are those of us that have retired and continue to pay into the Social Security scheme we're very lucky

[Leaver]

On 11/14/2021 at 6:34 PM, cranki said:

This word "wealthy" seems to get bandied around a lot on this forum.....one doesn't have to be "wealthy"(define wealthy) to be able to afford the necessary funds for insurance/money in the bank/visa fees, etc.....I would call that as just being comfortable.

 

 

Once an individual reaches a certain age, many insurance companies will not offer coverage, as it's a bad risk for them. 

 

Being wealthy, wealthier, or the wealthiest, doesn't get around this, should the Thai government insists on retirees producing an annual insurance policy in the future.  

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Leaver

[hotandsticky]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Once an individual reaches a certain age, many insurance companies will not offer coverage, as it's a bad risk for them. 

 

Being wealthy, wealthier, or the wealthiest, doesn't get around this, should the Thai government insists on retirees producing an annual insurance policy in the future.  

 

 

 

 

 

I am sure that the drop in the ocean paid to agents by those 'wealthiest' will be just that.

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I am sure that the drop in the ocean paid to agents by those 'wealthiest' will be just that.

 

I use an agent.  Like most things in Thailand, they always leave a corrupt avenue available. I think it will still exist for those using agents. 

 

Good earner for immigration, pushing all the over 70's or 75's to use agents, because they are too old to qualify for an insurance policy.  Big money involved for them.  

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I use an agent.  Like most things in Thailand, they always leave a corrupt avenue available. I think it will still exist for those using agents. 

 

Good earner for immigration, pushing all the over 70's or 75's to use agents, because they are too old to qualify for an insurance policy.  Big money involved for them.  

The agent method for retirement extension is legal with the top guy signing off once money in the bank, i doubt he will sign off fake insurance or no insurance, he would be exposed

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

The agent method for retirement extension is legal with the top guy signing off once money in the bank, i doubt he will sign off fake insurance or no insurance, he would be exposed

 

 

I doubt that he would readily give up an enormous income stream.

[HashBrownHarry]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I use an agent.  Like most things in Thailand, they always leave a corrupt avenue available. I think it will still exist for those using agents. 

 

Good earner for immigration, pushing all the over 70's or 75's to use agents, because they are too old to qualify for an insurance policy.  Big money involved for them.  

Do you use an agent because:

 

- You don't meet the financial criteria?

OR

- You can't do it on you're own?

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I doubt that he would readily give up an enormous income stream.

exactly that's why it's unlikely to be a requirement for non imm O

[Leaver]

On 11/17/2021 at 4:54 AM, scubascuba3 said:

The agent method for retirement extension is legal with the top guy signing off once money in the bank, i doubt he will sign off fake insurance or no insurance, he would be exposed

 

Legal, but not legal, just the way the Thai's like it.  That way, they can manipulate outcomes when they want, and how they want.

 

What would he be exposed for?  The agent can arrange a policy for the retiree,  just the same way they arrange the 800k in a Thai bank.  The extension is approved, the money is returned, and the insurance policy cancelled after the extension is granted.    

 

Everyone makes money, including upper management of an insurance company, signing up thousands of retirees across Thailand on 24 hour policies. 

 

Once again, legal, but not legal.  The retiree was insured at the time of application.   Nothing fake about.  

 

You don't think the guys in Bangkok would be jumping at this chance to extract billions of baht out of retirees here?  

[scubascuba3]

31 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Legal, but not legal, just the way the Thai's like it.  That way, they can manipulate outcomes when they want, and how they want.

 

What would he be exposed for?  The agent can arrange a policy for the retiree,  just the same way they arrange the 800k in a Thai bank.  The extension is approved, the money is returned, and the insurance policy cancelled after the extension is granted.    

 

Everyone makes money, including upper management of an insurance company, signing up thousands of retirees across Thailand on 24 hour policies. 

 

Once again, legal, but not legal.  The retiree was insured at the time of application.   Nothing fake about.  

 

You don't think the guys in Bangkok would be jumping at this chance to extract billions of baht out of retirees here?  

Refunding the 800k has no real impact, cancelling an insurance policy which is meant to be for a year has an impact, there would be numerous stories of falang not being able to claim on the insurance because basically it's fake \ just for the initial application and can't pay for their healthcare. I can't see it happening.

 

Why didn't they make it compulsory for the O when they brought it in for the OA?

Edited November 19, 2021 by scubascuba3

[The Fugitive]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:44 AM, scubascuba3 said:

exactly that's why it's unlikely to be a requirement for non imm O

Agree! Another reason would be the Government knows that retirees would lie to obtain insurance. Health insurance companies wouldn't pay out in the event of a claim and hospitals would still be left with unpaid bills.

[Leaver]

On 11/17/2021 at 8:30 AM, HashBrownHarry said:

Do you use an agent because:

 

- You don't meet the financial criteria?

OR

- You can't do it on you're own?

 

The main reason is financial, and not because I can't afford it.  

 

I remember some time ago I posted a more detail analysis, but I will give brief details in this post.

 

My 800k baht equivalent is in a fund in my home country earning around 6% per annum.  It's not an aggressive fund. 

 

800k x 6% = 48,000 baht a year. 

 

It's liquid, and in a country where I hold citizenship and have rights, has a developed financial system and judicial system.

 

At the time of this post, Kasikorn Bank is offering 0.40% interest on deposits under 10 million baht for a 12 month fixed deposit.

 

800k x 0.40% = 3200 baht per year.

 

The money is locked in for 12 months, and whilst some leave the 800k in a regular savings or transaction account, using it and going under the 800k, many leave the 800k in the Thai bank, untouched, perpetually.

 

I pay 20,000 baht to the agent.  He does the lot.  Nothing for me to do.  

 

Many argue that their extension only costs 1,900 baht, but to me, their extension costs 42,900 baht.

 

48,000 - 1,900 - 3,200 = 42,900 baht.  

 

This makes a Thai visa / extension expensive, not for the cost to immigration at 1,900 baht, but for the criteria / hoops you have to meet to be able to pay the 1,900 baht.  Eg. leaving 800k baht in a Thai bank.  

 

Having the 800k in a Thai bank exposes you to more risk in the Thai banking system.  Eg. a run on the banks.   Also, some issues getting the lump some money out of the country can arise.   Maybe Bangkok might order "a haircut" on accounts.  Who knows, but if such things happen here, what can foreigners do, sign a petition?  ????  

 

I chose not to give a Thai bank a cheap loan of 800k, just so I can "do it myself" every year, thinking I am only paying 1,900 baht to immigration.  ????   

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

The main reason is financial, and not because I can't afford it.  

 

I remember some time ago I posted a more detail analysis, but I will give brief details in this post.

 

My 800k baht equivalent is in a fund in my home country earning around 6% per annum.  It's not an aggressive fund. 

 

800k x 6% = 48,000 baht a year. 

 

It's liquid, and in a country where I hold citizenship and have rights, has a developed financial system and judicial system.

 

At the time of this post, Kasikorn Bank is offering 0.40% interest on deposits under 10 million baht for a 12 month fixed deposit.

 

800k x 0.40% = 3200 baht per year.

 

The money is locked in for 12 months, and whilst some leave the 800k in a regular savings or transaction account, using it and going under the 800k, many leave the 800k in the Thai bank, untouched, perpetually.

 

I pay 20,000 baht to the agent.  He does the lot.  Nothing for me to do.  

 

Many argue that their extension only costs 1,900 baht, but to me, their extension costs 42,900 baht.

 

48,000 - 1,900 - 3,200 = 42,900 baht.  

 

This makes a Thai visa / extension expensive, not for the cost to immigration at 1,900 baht, but for the criteria / hoops you have to meet to be able to pay the 1,900 baht.  Eg. leaving 800k baht in a Thai bank.  

 

Having the 800k in a Thai bank exposes you to more risk in the Thai banking system.  Eg. a run on the banks.   Also, some issues getting the lump some money out of the country can arise.   Maybe Bangkok might order "a haircut" on accounts.  Who knows, but if such things happen here, what can foreigners do, sign a petition?  ????  

 

I chose not to give a Thai bank a cheap loan of 800k, just so I can "do it myself" every year, thinking I am only paying 1,900 baht to immigration.  ????   

Basically its financial, as you want to have the extra money, so you cheat and go to an agent. That is fine but don't moan if it comes back to you at some time. If not great well done id say. If not be a man and then don't moan. (not saying you would).

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

 

I chose not to give a Thai bank a cheap loan of 800k, just so I can "do it myself" every year, thinking I am only paying 1,900 baht to immigration.  ????   

good move actually, if you can 6% in interests, but in most countries, it is impossible

 

is that fund in Australia?

[scubascuba3]

Funny how so many BMs claim to make 6%-10% pa, most people know it's up and down and you have winners and losers and past performance is no guarantee of the future.

 

My returns have been good also but the future is unknown