Renting a villa with security cameras. Having an issue with the landlord

[wthnrsn]

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can help.

We're renting a villa. The landlord has CCTV around the outside of the property to view all the doors. These cameras also get a great look over the sun loungers, the pool, and the patio. One of them can even see through the glass doors into the lounge if we leave the curtains open.

When we moved here we didn't know about the cameras. No one mentioned them, they're not in the contract.

On the first day we moved in (and our first time viewing the property after having already signed the 1 year contract) I emailed the landlord to request disabling the camera overlooking the sun loungers and pool.

We didn't get a response, so after a couple weeks we started just turning off the NVR in the day and turning it on at night or when we left the property.

Today the landlord finally got back to me, simply to say that he wants the cameras on and for me to stop turning them off.

I responded with a very reasonable message outlining why we turn them off. Expectation of privacy, uncomfortable being on camera when sunbathing etc. 
I also explained that we turn them on whenever we're not around. 
I suggested a compromise: disable the camera overlooking the pool and turn the camera that points into the lounge.
The Landlord ignored me and instead emailed the letting agent (with me copied into the email), asking him to tell me to turn them on. 

So, I'm in a bit of a weird situation here. This landlord will not respond to me. He will not reason with me. He apparently doesn't care at all about working with us to find a compromise.
Our contract also says that we can't just leave without being liable for all of the months for the rest of the contract - 11 are remaining.

I'm having a hard time finding out anything about tenant rights and if we even have any in this situation?
Is the camera allowed to view into the property at all?
If we keep turning them on and off, as we have been, is there anything he could do to remove us from the property?

Any help here would be much appreciated.

[HeijoshinCool]

.

 

Me, I'd disable the intrusive cameras, and let him sue me.

[FritsSikkink]

Just tape a piece of paper on the camera, problem solved.

[WEBBYB808]

43 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Just tape a piece of paper on the camera, problem solved.

Exactly  camera still on.  You will have done what he asked.  You will have left the camera on and maintaing your privacy.  Or what can he do if you turn them off to protect  your privacy.  I am under t hgt e impression Thailand  a modest country, so why wouldn't  it be ok that you are shy when on camera in your swim suits?  If he ask you to leave then you shouldn't  be liable to have to pay remaining months.  Ask hom if he's a dirty man and just trying to see someones body.  If course this may cause him a loss of face if you call him out.  

[richard_smith237]

Take a photo of the ‘camera view... put that up in front of the camera !!! ???? (of course, probably won’t work). 

 

Solution is simple and you are in control: 

- Reposition (turn) the cam which can view into the living room

- Place some tape over the Camera which over looks the sun-loungers

 

You have a right to your privacy.

 

The cameras are not in the contract and were not mentioned, the house is not as ‘per-contract’ - this could void the contract if you wish.

 

Ignore any further e-mails from the Landlord.

 

Personally - I’d not pay the next months rent (to the amount of the deposit paid) then find a new place to stay. I would not want to stay in a place where the relationship with the landlord has broken down. 

[BritManToo]

I'd be wondering about hidden cameras in the bathroom, toilet and bedroom.

[Tarteso]

You no longer need to communicate with the property about the issue. Simply, turn the camera ON / OFF every time you want privacy in your own rented property ... just IMO

[2 is 1]

Turn camera off and hit it whit baseball bat! If he come put new one do same again!

Let your girlfriend/wife watch that nobody see you in action. And you dont know anything what have happen those cameras, when/if he ask tell him to contact that agent!

[Pmbkk]

Just think what may be lurking inside - my builder had me set up an inch diameter camera that he can see with his smartphone ( on a pole so he could see tight areas - can zoom in etc ).

 

I'd just tell him I'm covering when we are in the covered areas - simple !

 

 

[Pmbkk]

BTW - I rent out properties and if you turn it off - I bet he won't have a lens to stand-on

[bojo]

Two things that I'm struggling to get my head around...................

 

that you didn't notice the cameras prior to moving in and query or how to operate etc

that after emailing the landlord reasonably; he's still insistent that you reconnect them

Just unplug and ignore all correspondence from now on and as the the first post states 'let him sue me'...........................

 

 

[wthnrsn]

1 hour ago, bojo said:

Two things that I'm struggling to get my head around...................

 

that you didn't notice the cameras prior to moving in and query or how to operate etc

that after emailing the landlord reasonably; he's still insistent that you reconnect them

Just unplug and ignore all correspondence from now on and as the the first post states 'let him sue me'...........................

 

 

We were locked down in a red zone and could not fly to view the place in person. 

We had a video tour, then signed the lease and paid the deposit. 

 

On arrival, we questioned the housekeeper about the cameras. She was sympathetic and showed me how to turn it off, but made a point that the owner expects it on and if we turn it off, to do it briefly. 

 

We emailed the landlord that day (he's in the UK) to talk about the cameras. 

He's ignored a few emails, so then we decided to just turn them off when it best suited us. 

 

That's what finally got his attention. 

 

They both keep saying how all the other tenants were fine with the cameras... As if we're the one's being unreasonable here. 

However the agent did acknowledge our privacy concerns and has asked the owner if he'll compromise. 

We'll see where this will go. 

 

My only concern would be if he had grounds to kick us out if we kept turning them off

[wthnrsn]

I forgot to say, I appreciate all of the replies! Thank you for weighing in.

[Salerno]

Having a security system is great. But if it had remote uploads/notifications anyone other than myself had access to all cameras would be turned of permanently.

 

Tell the voyeur you're not an exhibitionist (and keep an eye out for a new place a month or so before the lease is up, he might be dumb enough not to want you to renew).

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Salerno said:

Having a security system is great. But if it had remote uploads/notifications anyone other than myself had access to all cameras would be turned of permanently.

 

Tell the voyeur you're not an exhibitionist (and keep an eye out for a new place a month or so before the lease is up, he might be dumb enough not to want you to renew).

We got security cams too in our place, but not turned on private stuff. Just on the gate going into the house and that is it. I would not want to live anywhere with cameras that someone else could access. 

[Salerno]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

We got security cams too in our place, but not turned on private stuff. Just on the gate going into the house and that is it. I would not want to live anywhere with cameras that someone else could access. 

It's bad enough with, in certain areas/countries, being constantly surveilled by government agencies in public places or businesses looking after their establishments (not saying that in the vast majority of those cases it isn't a result of legitimate concerns) but I'd certainly draw the line at some random spying on me in my "own" home.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, 2 is 1 said:

Turn camera off and hit it whit baseball bat! If he come put new one do same again!

Let your girlfriend/wife watch that nobody see you in action. And you dont know anything what have happen those cameras, when/if he ask tell him to contact that agent!

Stupid advise as it will be on the camera.

[bbko]

CCTV not mentioned in the contract or on the video tour, so the owner doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.  If I was in your shoes I'd keep a copy of that video tour incase the owner tries anything and "accidently" block the intrusive cameras with a newly bought potted plant/drying clothes on the rack/hanging decorations/oversized poolside thermometer, etc.

[Polar Bear]

Are they connected to your electric supply? If they are, and it's not in the contract, you have no obligation to pay for it. Unplug them and tell him to find a new power source.

[arick]

Take pictures of the cameras and the video of you in the lounge.  And disable them.  Let's him sue you and dont pay your last month's rent look for a new villa I am sure there are hundreds sitting empty. 

[arick]

6 hours ago, bbko said:

CCTV not mentioned in the contract or on the video tour, so the owner doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.  If I was in your shoes I'd keep a copy of that video tour incase the owner tries anything and "accidently" block the intrusive cameras with a newly bought potted plant/drying clothes on the rack/hanging decorations/oversized poolside thermometer, etc.

Owner would be taking a big risk to sue. Lessee and owner could be charged for x rated video depending what has been recorded in the pool and lounge! 

[BE88]

27 minutes ago, arick said:

Owner would be taking a big risk to sue. Lessee and owner could be charged for x rated video depending what has been recorded in the pool and lounge! 

Very good advice plus you should check if the owner has installed hidden cameras in the interior, if he is a voyeur as he seems it is very likely that he has installed them, you find this inexpensive tool on lazada, if you find them you inform the police and the contract will be automatically canceled.

 

[jackdd]

If it's not mentioned in the rental contract he does obviously have no legal rights. So just turn all of them off all the time, there is nothing he can legally do.

[bojo]

8 hours ago, wthnrsn said:

We were locked down in a red zone and could not fly to view the place in person. 

We had a video tour, then signed the lease and paid the deposit. 

 

On arrival, we questioned the housekeeper about the cameras. She was sympathetic and showed me how to turn it off, but made a point that the owner expects it on and if we turn it off, to do it briefly. 

 

We emailed the landlord that day (he's in the UK) to talk about the cameras. 

He's ignored a few emails, so then we decided to just turn them off when it best suited us. 

 

That's what finally got his attention. 

 

They both keep saying how all the other tenants were fine with the cameras... As if we're the one's being unreasonable here. 

However the agent did acknowledge our privacy concerns and has asked the owner if he'll compromise. 

We'll see where this will go. 

 

My only concern would be if he had grounds to kick us out if we kept turning them off

He's in the UK...............................Can I assume not a Thai citizen then....? Not a leg to stand on legally. I think you've been more than reasonable and quite frankly, it must affect the way you feel about living in the property: it certainly would me.................................If that is the case, then you gotta stand your ground and front it out as you see fit................................However, a possible compromise might be for you to suggest that the housekeeper is allowed to update him with videos of the property at regular intervals to show that the property is being well looked after............................Any reasonable landlord would agree to that, and I'm sure you would,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,otherwise he is just a voyeur..........................................................I hope it works out for you.................................

[phetphet]

Are the cameras hard wired or wifi? If wifi, you maybe able to to do something to disrupt the signal.

[ronster]

Liable for the years rent if you leave ! ????????

Turn them off . If you keep turning them off then what is he going to do apart from send the agent round to tell you to put them back on . Upon which you refuse and they can waste each other’s time trying to get you to comply . If the owner says put them on or leave then tell him no problem as long as he returns any deposit and agrees not to charge you for the rest of the year .

[VocalNeal]

9 hours ago, Salerno said:

Having a security system is great.

It isn't a security system it is a monitoring system.

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

It isn't a security system it is a monitoring system.

We don't know that. it could be a standalone monitoring system or the cameras could by part of an integrated security system. Either way, they are there for security.

[VocalNeal]

13 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Just tape a piece of paper on the camera, problem solved.

A small dab of Vaseline in the lens will distort the images enough.

[VocalNeal]

14 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Either way, they are there for security.

As we don't know, as you rightly say. Cameras in themselves don't provide security.