16 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Why are you OK with Sinopharm vs  mRNA jab?  I had Sinopharm but would have taken anything offered up. Seems like statistically that there are more dangerous things I do every day compared to Covid vaccinations.  My current constipation frightens me much more than Covid or vaccinations.  My GF ran over the dog and drove the scooter into our fishpond yesterday.  I could have been the dog.  I would bet your odds of injury are much greater driving to the hospital than the vaccination.  Yes?

Because Sinopharm is based on the same tech that we have used for many other vaccinations for many years. Just a weaker or killed-off form of the real virus. 

12 hours ago, Toolong said:

I don't wish to shift too much from the main issue here, which is essentially the possible imposition of restrictive & puntive social sanctions against those unvaccinated, but could someone just explain to me why I might be incorrect in thinking that if vaccinated people can still become infected with C19.....and if vaccinated people can still infect others with C19, why should it be assumed that UNvaccinated people are a particular risk to others? (A risk to themselves, yes.) It's a genuine query and I am happy to be shown up as having faulty logic or as being uninformed if that is the case. 

 

(I am fully vaccinated btw, but only cos I could see exactly this kind of s**t coming down the road.....and lo, here it comes.)

Unvaccinated people pose a much higher risk of passing on the virus than vaccinated people, yes.

Just now, katatonic said:

Unvaccinated people pose a much higher risk of passing on the virus than vaccinated people, yes.

Even the ones who have shook off Covid and have antibodies?

Expat having received two doses of Pfizer from the USA donation. Stepdaughter has received two doses of Pfizer through her school. Thai wife … we await the Moderna doses she has paid for already … careful Thai government officials. Either provide Thai adults with the Moderna already paid for or the Pfizer vaccine  … now.

21 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, we already know that Covid has long term effects. If you mean effects that show up later, namely latent effects, there are several viruses that do exactly that. Who knows, Covid may be added to the list.  To date, that has never been the case for a vaccine.

What we dont know is the long term effects of mRNA vaccines, specifically in young healthy adults- boys more so.

 

CDC is actively investigating reports of people developing myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) after receiving a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna). Most of these people fully recover, but information is not yet available about potential long-term effects.

 

Not saying my son wont have a vaccine, but prefer to wait until the 'human trials' are over and more information is available.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myo-outcomes.html

13 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

popular amongst the ruling elite

And people who don't want unvaccinated people ignoring overwhelming medical evidence contributing to the spread and mutation of COVID-19.

17 minutes ago, katatonic said:

Unvaccinated people pose a much higher risk of passing on the virus than vaccinated people, yes.

If, as you suggest, it's a matter of distinct & measureable degrees of difference in the infectability risk of vax vs unvax people, then I understand it is an important  difference to pay attention to. ????????

18 minutes ago, sungod said:

Even the ones who have shook off Covid and have antibodies?

Of course.  

 

At least after your vaccinated you'll be less likely to catch it again.

 

 

22 minutes ago, sungod said:

What we dont know is the long term effects of mRNA vaccines, specifically in young healthy adults- boys more so.

 

CDC is actively investigating reports of people developing myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) after receiving a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna). Most of these people fully recover, but information is not yet available about potential long-term effects.

 

Not saying my son wont have a vaccine, but prefer to wait until the 'human trials' are over and more information is available.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myo-outcomes.html

Well, we already do know that covid has long term effects For instance

For Many, Long COVID Looks a Lot Like Chronic Fatigue

A team of researchers, including two from Johns Hopkins Medicine, have published a review article highlighting similarities between certain lingering symptoms following COVID-19 illness — a condition called “long COVID” — and myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), a debilitating, complex disorder previously known as chronic fatigue syndrome.

The researchers say the symptoms shared by the two conditions may involve a biological response that goes haywire when the body encounters certain infections or other environmental hazards.

 

“The body’s response to infection and injury is complex and covers all body systems,” says lead author Bindu Paul, Ph.D., assistant professor of pharmacology and molecular sciences at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/covid-19-news-for-many-long-covid-looks-a-lot-like-chronic-fatigue

 

And we also know that there are viruses with latent effects, like the polio virus which can kill it victims years after they have supposedly recovered. Or chickenpox, which years later can result in an excruciating case of shingles. Like the Human Papilloma Virus which years later can cause cervical cancer. Possibly throat and oral cancer, too.

 

Can you name any vaccine that results in latent effects?

 

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Can you name any vaccine that results in latent effects?

 

Just quoting CDC, can you predict the future?

1 minute ago, sungod said:

Just quoting CDC, can you predict the future?

On a probability basis, yes. If the future couldn't be predicted, insurance companies couldn't exist as a business. It may turn out that covid vaccinations have long term effects, but we already know that it does have long term effects. That's the great thing about the present. We don't have to predict it. But it does give us an edge in evaluating the likelihood of different outcomes.

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

On a probability basis, yes. If the future couldn't be predicted, insurance companies couldn't exist as a business. It may turn out that covid vaccinations have long term effects, but we already know that it does have long term effects. That's the great thing about the present. We don't have to predict it. But it does give us an edge in evaluating the likelihood of different outcomes.

Don't disagree with anything you say, its a well balanced argument in my eyes.

 

Therefore it should all be about choice, that's not happening here.

 

You should respect that.

 

 

13 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

Like all laws, this one would need enforcing. I really can't see that happening after the first two weeks.

Well...other countries are doing it and one of them is the "Mother of Democracy" 

That is  nice... Copied from the western countries where there are demonstrations because people find it unfair that people are being forced to be vaccinated.

Now in the Netherlads I have read there are about 20.000 kids in the age of 5 to 12 year old who have tested positive for Covid. How are they going to hadle that when the school are fulle open?? They are  not vaccinated too but carriers of the virus. Although kids are less symptonic they can spread the virus.

And 1 jabi is not vaccinated. Only the ones who recieved 2 jabs are vaccinated and the vaccinations will only be effective for about 6-8 months....

Many things to solve...

12 minutes ago, sungod said:

Don't disagree with anything you say, its a well balanced argument in my eyes.

 

Therefore it should all be about choice, that's not happening here.

 

You should respect that.

 

 

I don't know about that. It's as certain as certain can that that covid does cause long term symptoms. We know for a fact that long term consequences of being inoculated  vaccine occur far less often than they do if you're not inoculated. . We know for a fact that viruses can have serious latent effects. We don't know that covid vaccines can cause latent effects. It seems highly unlikely given that no vaccine has ever been shown to have done so.

So, then the moral question could be framed as to whether someone has the right to endanger public health given that the grounds for his doing so are far more unlikely to be realized than are the harmful consequences to others of him not doing so. Similarly in the case of a parent or guardian deciding for his children or charges. Not getting them inoculated may look like caution but to me it looks more like foolishness. Not only is the child more likely to suffer if not inoculated, even though in any event the chances are small. but it tremendously benefits others if they are.

13 hours ago, Toolong said:

I don't wish to shift too much from the main issue here, which is essentially the possible imposition of restrictive & puntive social sanctions against those unvaccinated, but could someone just explain to me why I might be incorrect in thinking that if vaccinated people can still become infected with C19.....and if vaccinated people can still infect others with C19, why should it be assumed that UNvaccinated people are a particular risk to others? (A risk to themselves, yes.) It's a genuine query and I am happy to be shown up as having faulty logic or as being uninformed if that is the case. 

 

(I am fully vaccinated btw, but only cos I could see exactly this kind of s**t coming down the road.....and lo, here it comes.)

This question or line of thought seems to be becoming relatively common even amongst some whom I know are otherwise sensible, so let's look at it clearly shall we?

1. Unvaccinated people are more likely to get the virus than vaccinated people. 

This is clearly true, and can be understood by the common person when you remember that those who are vaccinated and get the virus are classified as having gotten a "breakthrough" infection. That means that, despite the additional protection offered by the vaccine, it's not a 100% preventive and so even vaccinated people can get the virus. However, it is obvious that two identical twins - one vaccinated, one not - who are exposed to the same circumstances will have the unvaccinated one more likely to get the virus. Therefore, statistically, you ARE more likely to have the virus if you're unvaccinated with all other factors unconsidered. This is the main reason for restrictions. If you're a vector, I don't want you wandering around near me. In addition, if you DO get the virus, the unvaccinated are more likely to get long-haul COVID, have a longer time with the virus before recovery and have more serious impacts from the virus. This makes them a burden on the healthcare system and families who have to care for them and a higher risk because they're actively transmitting the virus for a longer period of time after getting it than the vaccinated are by virtue of their being able to recover more quickly and completely.

 

2. Unvaccinated people are more likely to behave with less caution in terms of getting or transmitting the virus.

 

I would say that there are two camps of unvaccinated based on my observation. First are those who are genuinely concerned about the vaccine impacts on their personal health but who recognize that the virus is a serious health concern and take extra precautions (being especially careful about masking, avoiding crowds, maintaining social distancing etc.) knowing that they haven't got the vaccination to provide additional protection. Those people are not problematic because they're behaving in a way that protects themselves and others from what they recognize as a public health danger. With their behaviours and masking, they're not recklessly exposing others to the virus, although they're personally in more danger should they get infected despite their precautions. 

The second camp are the real problem - the "I know better than the scientists" crowd, the "muh freedumbs", the "vaccine-shedding", the "micro-chipping", the "sheeple" and the "whatabouters"...it's been a revelation to me that this group extends far wider and deeper than previously believed and includes people who ARE scientists and health professionals. However, as one who grew up in a medical family, it's actually not that unusual for health professionals to eschew what they know to be sound medical advice in favour of doing what they want despite the impacts. In these cases, there are usually two main reasons underlying those choices: (1) Political belief, (2) Personal convenience/pleasure, (3) Fatalism, (4) Susceptibility to conspiracy theory, and (5) Mental illness. These people have politicized a public health issue and are not willing to either consider other people's rights as being as valid as their own, or are basically of the opinion "we're all gonna die one day and this place is going to hell in a handbasket anyway" or have become influenced by deliberately targeted and malevolent social media to act as the "sheeple" they so despise. In addition, because of the politicization of the issue, these people are also now gathering with other like-minded individuals to promote their point of view, and of course not taking the pre-cautions to prevent transmission of the disease so are higher in actual exposure to the virus. These people are a real and present danger to the public. They are the reason for the restrictions and why, suddenly, after a lifetime of getting vaccinated, there are all of these internet experts "DoInG thEIr ResEARch" to tell us all about the science and epidemiology they haven't previously given a thought to for their entire existence. But of course without the grounding to understand a whit of it.

The biggest problem is separating these two groups of unvaccinated people. Since there's no easy, obvious or scientific way to do so that is practical, unfortunately for the first group, they're going to have the restrictions imposed on the second group. Those restrictions are necessary to protect the rest of us who are complying with the public health mandates and practices.

TL;DR: You are statistically more likely to be a danger to someone else in terms of transmitting COVID-19 if you are unvaccinated because your likelihood of getting the virus is higher and you're more likely to transmit the virus due to your views that have lead you to not get the vaccination. This is not universal behaviour among the unvaccinated, but in order to manage the virus practically, this group has to be treated uniformly in order to protect the majority of the population and, especially, the vulnerable.

Do I believe that everybody being vaxxed will kill off the virus?

Yes, I do. Have you seen much Smallpox about lately? How about Polio? Why not?

 

That you believe that nobody was developing mRNA vaccines before 4 months ago tells us everything we need to know about your knowledge and expertise. 

1 hour ago, sungod said:

Even the ones who have shook off Covid and have antibodies?

Antibodies developed after a COVID infection I have read, that based on current data, you have good immune response for several months.  After that period your susceptibility to being infected with COVID increases.  Adding to the issue are of course the never-ending COVID mutations.  Being previously infected with COVID and/or being vaccinated does not create life-long immunity unfortunately.  

2 hours ago, wolf81 said:

I ain't gonna take a mRNA jab, so if eventually there's no other way to stay here, I'll be looking if me, my girlfriend and our daughter can temporarily locate to another country that is more lenient with regards to vaccination policy.

 

It's completely ridiculous to force experimental vaccines on people. I'd be ok with just 2 Sinopharm jabs (was actually considering this yesterday), but then the doctor told my GF the third jab needs to be from Pfizer or AstraZeneca.

 

Might have more faith in your opinions on this subject if you correctly understood that the AZ vaccine you seem to want to be avoiding is NOT an mRNA vaccine.

 

So, you could get the two Sinopharm doses and then a booster of AZ, and never have an mRNA injection.

 

I have a feeling that a lot of vaccinated folks don't feel too safe with all the latest info about the vaccines efficiency, therefore they like to victimise unvaccinated, pretending that they care for them, rather then admitting they they are worried about getting the virus and ending up in hospital.

 

If all the vaccinated want to pretend they care about others  lives, how about you stay home, since you can get a virus and pass it on!

This way you have less chances of catching/spreading the virus  therefore reducing hospital's covid beds occupancy and will save many lives lost to ALL other possibly deadly diseases/sicknesses that in many countries haven't been treated and/or detected for almost 2 years now. 

 

People need to stop pretending that they care for unvaccinated strangers. 

Most humans can't see/care beyond the tip of their nose anyway.

 

If you are vaccinated and believe it will protect you from getting very ill, why would you care about what others want to do to/with their body.

 

Assume this virus is here to stay forever, so learn how to LIVE and ENJOY your own life and let others do the same.

 

Btw, I'm fully vaccinated 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, JCauto said:

Do I believe that everybody being vaxxed will kill off the virus?

Yes, I do. Have you seen much Smallpox about lately? How about Polio? Why not?

 

That you believe that nobody was developing mRNA vaccines before 4 months ago tells us everything we need to know about your knowledge and expertise. 

Africa still has polio, so that tells me all I need to know about you. How about Thalidomide? Guess that was safe too in your books. But why are you comparing vaxes from yesteryear to now? Were you forced to take those vaxes with threats of restrictions. One other thing I'm curious about is why is the US Senate exempt from being vaccinated. Do what I say not what I do comes to mind

14 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Where is the paid for months ago Moderna with no refund my Mrs asks in some ones pocket no doubt ????

Same thing, GF paid months ago for Moderna in two different hospitals and still no jab. When she calls them they tell her "maybe January "

In general

Don't believe everything you're thinking

Multiple additional COVID vaccine-related posts have been removed, with the common factors being misinformation claims and/or claims being made with absolutely no supporting credible source/weblink or substantiation/quotes provided in the post to support those claims.

 

6 hours ago, Russell17au said:

If you got you double vac at Bangkok Hospital in Khon Kaen you would have been handed the certificate of vaccination by the staff on level 2 before you were allowed to leave.

Not at the Hospital.

They organised public vaccination events at Central Plaza 5th floor, appointments made by the hospital. Vaccinations made by hospital personnel and I imagine others too.

Got a paper after the second which I suppose was the certificate.

 

Very grateful, as it was free.

15 hours ago, edgarfriendly said:

The genuine answer is it has zero to do with health & logic

And if you extend the context beyond health the logic will be there.

It shouldn't be compulsory, as it is a matter for individual choice. BUT the state (or whatever other heathcare provider you have, e.g. insurance) should also have the choice of withdrawing funding for any treatment you might receive from catching Covid. That's what they are going to do in Singapore. If you willfully avoid any preventitive treatment then you should pay for the consequences - not expect someone else to do it.

 

next,  free medical care withdrawn for motorcyclists who don't wear helmets..... personal choice again.

Some posters are spreading fake information.

1. The COVID vaccine wears out after 6 months, Not true.  Immunities may lessen after 6 months

and the elderly are being advised to get a booster to keep their immunities up.

2. The COVID vaccine expires, well the expiry date on your Vaccine certificate, is the

date the vial would have expired, if it was not injected into your arm.

   Then there are many of the anti vaxxers who claim they have medical reasons that they

cannot get the vaccine, when a lot of them are just scared of needles, and some of them 

have a fear that they are losing their freedom if they get vaccinated.   People who actually have a medical reason

not to get vaccinated can get a certificate from their doctor.   Some of my relatives in their 30s

 did not get the vaccine as they felt that they would not die if they contracted COVID, Then one of them got

sick with the virus, and let the others know how rotten he felt, and that he was on his way to the hospital as 

he was having trouble breathing.  Amazing, but the rest got their shots the very next day. 

  This pandemic, certainly has shown us just how many people in the world, believe stuff they read on their

computers, but do not believe the news on TV or in the newspapers.  That is also amazing to believe.

What a world we live in.

Geezer

6 minutes ago, Stargeezr said:

Some posters are spreading fake information.

1. The COVID vaccine wears out after 6 months, Not true.  Immunities may lessen after 6 months

and the elderly are being advised to get a booster to keep their immunities up.

2. The COVID vaccine expires, well the expiry date on your Vaccine certificate, is the

date the vial would have expired, if it was not injected into your arm.

   Then there are many of the anti vaxxers who claim they have medical reasons that they

cannot get the vaccine, when a lot of them are just scared of needles, and some of them 

have a fear that they are losing their freedom if they get vaccinated.   People who actually have a medical reason

not to get vaccinated can get a certificate from their doctor.   Some of my relatives in their 30s

 did not get the vaccine as they felt that they would not die if they contracted COVID, Then one of them got

sick with the virus, and let the others know how rotten he felt, and that he was on his way to the hospital as 

he was having trouble breathing.  Amazing, but the rest got their shots the very next day. 

  This pandemic, certainly has shown us just how many people in the world, believe stuff they read on their

computers, but do not believe the news on TV or in the newspapers.  That is also amazing to believe.

What a world we live in.

Geezer

I'm not having a go at you but am curious to know you you find as credible on the news/TV and who you do not. I'm trying to fact check for myself the information I read or see on the news

I do not really care for Fox news on TV, or rebel news on the computer, or any Qanon stuff either.

   Not a Trump fan as well, but he still has lots.

Geezer