The march forward with paying through QR codes

[Scouse123]

Are there any safeguards to protect you when using contactless pay?

 

I use QR, I am computer literate but I can't get my head around contactless as it seems so easy to wave a card in a machine, anybody who picks up your card if you drop it, or a thief can use it without anybody checking or questioning them?

 

Am I right there or have I missed something?

 

My Thai credit card scares me, like In the UK where it sails through in a retail outlet without a PIN number being required.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Scouse123

[Tropposurfer]

Yeah yeah I get it: Convenience, speed, security, but but but ... I like the feeling of taking out actual money. Lovely when visiting OZ  to go to the bank and put some pineapples and lettuces in the front pocket. The sound of snapping a few fresh notes between the fingers is a privilege.

[Bluetongue]

I use pay wave in Australia on a card that attracts points, which I have zillions of, and one day will try and redeem them for a new teapot or something. Its usually fast and you can use your phone for it too. People pay in my taxi by numerous means, cash is still 20/30%. So I spend that or bring it here as well rather than bank it. I try to keep aware of developments but never knew of the QR code payment. I will add it to my repertoire and continue to use whatever is fastest and most convenient for me. Here I use cash, I cant be bothered carrying my phone around in the market or the shops either, usually leave it in the car.  I would be very sorry to see cash disappear as seems eventually likely, when the Government and big tech know everything will the world be better?

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Contactless scares me and I even told Barclays in the UK not to give me contactless on my card.

 

I mean if somebody loses it or somebody steals it, they can have a field day as nobody is checking and verifying who you are or am I wrong?

You are not wrong, but not right either...  somewhere in the middle !!!... 

 

In the UK at least, contactless payment has an amount limit and a usage limit before a pin number is required. 

 

In the UK the limit was £30 a couple of years ago, this rose to £45 this year and then up to £100 last month.

If spending more than £100 we’d have to verify with Chip & Pin.

There is also a ‘repeat limit’ whereby if the sum of consecutive payments exceeds £150 the Chip & Pin has to be used for verification. 

 

Thus: IF someone stole your card, it could be reused at a contactless point of sale up to a maximum of £150.

 

Additionally, unlike cash, if someone is a victim of card fraud (i.e. someone steels their card, clones their card or rips their RFID signature) there is 100% fraud protection. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

18 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Am I right there or have I missed something?

 

My Thai credit card scares me, like In the UK where it sails through in a retail outlet without a PIN number being required.

Answered separately: 

 

I get the concern with a Thai issued contactless card that the customer protection is not as strong as the UK for example. 

 

That said: Both my Wife and I were victims of Credit Card fraud (not a huge amount) - the amount was quickly refunded to our account. 

 

I ‘imagine’ but cannot confirm that we have the same level of protection with contactless payment, if it works here... (I’ve not found a place where its accepted).

[bbko]

The only time my money gets cleaned is when I accidently leave it in my pants pockets and they get washed other than that how many hundreds if not thousands of hands have those coins and bill gone through?  I couldn't care less if my bank sees what I bought in Makro or what I ate at a restaurant. 

[Neeranam]

On 12/12/2021 at 9:24 AM, phetphet said:

Yesterday I even used it in Bangkok Airways office to pay for flights.

I used my Crypto.com debit card which I think is better as I get 3% cashback and can use the First class lounges at all airports. 

https://crypto.com/cards

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Bluetongue said:

I use pay wave in Australia on a card that attracts points, which I have zillions of, and one day will try and redeem them for a new teapot or something. Its usually fast and you can use your phone for it too. People pay in my taxi by numerous means, cash is still 20/30%. So I spend that or bring it here as well rather than bank it. I try to keep aware of developments but never knew of the QR code payment. I will add it to my repertoire and continue to use whatever is fastest and most convenient for me. Here I use cash, I cant be bothered carrying my phone around in the market or the shops either, usually leave it in the car.  I would be very sorry to see cash disappear as seems eventually likely, when the Government and big tech know everything will the world be better?

Imagine a world where the tuk-tuks accept ‘cashless payment’ and they can’t pull the ‘no have change’ scam !!!! 

 

Realistically - Money should never disappear, its too useful as a backup for all other means of payment. 

 

However, I recently returned to the UK. Withdrew £200 at the airport upon arrival. 

Returned to the Airport 3 weeks later with £200 in my wallet - I’d not used cash payment once. 

 

Came back to Thailand, started using cash and cards again - forgot how inconvenient it is to get money out or have to sign for something !

 

 

 

 

[khunjeff]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

But then everyone knows where you are.

And if you're a Brit your state pension gets frozen.

I'm not a Brit, and my pension doesn't depend on where I live, so no one cares where I am. But I sympathize.

[chilly07]

Having never used this how does it work. Do you use a scanning app or your banks app? Bit concerned about opening my banks app in a store other than through my password protected router?

[DefaultName]

I haven't used this, forgive me if this is basic.

Do I just open my banking app and scan the QR code the vendor shows me?

[BritManToo]

32 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Having never used this how does it work. Do you use a scanning app or your banks app? Bit concerned about opening my banks app in a store other than through my password protected router?

I have the BKB app, app unlocks with my fingerprint.

Scan is top right choice in the app, after scan you need to enter your 6 digit authorisation PIN.

I have no idea why you would even mention your "password protected router"

[sikishrory]

Electronic payment in Thailand is improving but still annoys the <deleted> out of me they don't know how to tap cards.

For example in Australia you can just tap and go for most small purchases or if a bit bigger you need to key in the PIN.

I have the latest debit cards from scb and kasikorn both of which you are supposed to be able to tap on the machine and walk away. However for whatever reason only 1 girl ever did it this way. Normally if I give card they will swipe it then I have to key in the pin and sign. They even do this on tap compatible machines.

I told one girl to just tap it and she said "wifi cannot" whatever that means.

The fact some places need to have like 5 machines sitting around is also weird.

As for QR I use it often only because paying with the card is more of a pain than it needs to be.

This seems to have become a preferred method in Thailand for some reason. Again it seems a little sketchy. Needing to show your phone where they often take a picture. It's not really a seamless system.  I have seen on a few occasions people getting annoyed being asked to show their phones after they already quit the payment app.

I don't know why they just can't use a simple tap and go system or a system that actually verifies the transaction for them rather than "hey mister you show me phone".

 

As for makro they only accept cash or mobile payment in my experience which is another pain in the butt

 

I just needed to get that all off my chest. Thanks

[JimGant]

On 12/12/2021 at 9:53 AM, robblok said:

Believe me this is a huge cost saving for most companies. Especially compared to credit cards, and I don't pay any extra using this app at all. No extra bank charges nothing.

Don't care what the companies are saving, unless they somehow pass that on to their customers (yeah, right). To me, the QR checkout has the same safety arguments as using a debit card, namely, any disputes or fraud involved, your cash has already been removed from your bank account. Sure, good chance you may eventually get it back in a few months -- but I like the credit card route, where you've got at least a comfortable 4 week cushion to reverse questionable sales, with no cash from your bank account involved. Plus, my credit card has a 2.5% cash back feature, and, as a Visa, the exchange rate, with no foreign fx fee, is north of the TT rate (and just slightly south of the interbank exchange rate). Compare this to the cost of sending money to your Thai bank for QR use: Wise starts at interbank (midmarket) rates, but after fees, your cost is south of the TT rate. And SWIFT transfers start at the TT rate, then head south after fees. So, with 2.5% cash back and superior fx costs, I'll stick with my credit card, which doesn't seem to take too much time to process, plus it's lighter than my phone, for easy access.

[sikishrory]

54 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

I haven't used this, forgive me if this is basic.

Do I just open my banking app and scan the QR code the vendor shows me?

you scan the QR with your mobile banking app. Sometimes the QR will automatically set the price in the app for you and sometimes you need to key in the amount yourself. Sometimes the sellers machine will notify them the transaction went through and sometimes you need to let them see on your phone and they often take a photo.

Also you may need to select where the funds come from account or your card.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, chilly07 said:

Having never used this how does it work. Do you use a scanning app or your banks app? Bit concerned about opening my banks app in a store other than through my password protected router?

Or via your cell data network.

 

If online payments in such a manner concern you, open a second account with less money in it which can be used daily to limit your exposure. 

 

I have two accounts in Thailand - one with more money in it, the Bank Book and ATM card are in the safe. 

The other I use for online payments and carry the card in my Wallet - I top it up as needed. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Don't care what the companies are saving, unless they somehow pass that on to their customers (yeah, right). To me, the QR checkout has the same safety arguments as using a debit card, namely, any disputes or fraud involved, your cash has already been removed from your bank account. Sure, good chance you may eventually get it back in a few months -- but I like the credit card route, where you've got at least a comfortable 4 week cushion to reverse questionable sales, with no cash from your bank account involved. Plus, my credit card has a 2.5% cash back feature, and, as a Visa, the exchange rate, with no foreign fx fee, is north of the TT rate (and just slightly south of the interbank exchange rate). Compare this to the cost of sending money to your Thai bank for QR use: Wise starts at interbank (midmarket) rates, but after fees, your cost is south of the TT rate. And SWIFT transfers start at the TT rate, then head south after fees. So, with 2.5% cash back and superior fx costs, I'll stick with my credit card, which doesn't seem to take too much time to process, plus it's lighter than my phone, for easy access.

Whatever, never had a problem with my Thai debit card. Do whatever you like. I never use a creditcard i feel they are far more vulnerable to fraud. 

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

Electronic payment in Thailand is improving but still annoys the <deleted> out of me they don't know how to tap cards.

For example in Australia you can just tap and go for most small purchases or if a bit bigger you need to key in the PIN.

I have the latest debit cards from scb and kasikorn both of which you are supposed to be able to tap on the machine and walk away. However for whatever reason only 1 girl ever did it this way. Normally if I give card they will swipe it then I have to key in the pin and sign. They even do this on tap compatible machines.

I told one girl to just tap it and she said "wifi cannot" whatever that means.

The fact some places need to have like 5 machines sitting around is also weird.

As for QR I use it often only because paying with the card is more of a pain than it needs to be.

This seems to have become a preferred method in Thailand for some reason. Again it seems a little sketchy. Needing to show your phone where they often take a picture. It's not really a seamless system.  I have seen on a few occasions people getting annoyed being asked to show their phones after they already quit the payment app.

I don't know why they just can't use a simple tap and go system or a system that actually verifies the transaction for them rather than "hey mister you show me phone".

 

As for makro they only accept cash or mobile payment in my experience which is another pain in the butt

 

I just needed to get that all off my chest. Thanks

Exactly my experience too.....  When I ask to use ‘cashless payment’ in the form of ‘Tap&Go’ the staff always say something like ‘Wifi’ cannot..... I think they just mean they don’t know how to !

[gamb00ler]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:08 AM, robblok said:

For me its easy for warrantee decathlon you dont need the bill just your email. That is the advantage of it for the customer. 

 

Else set an email up for stuff like this with fake details works too and you still get your warrantee.

Easiest email to use is yopmail.com.  No setup and no password used and every email address works.  Downside is that anyone who guesses the name on your yopmail account can read your emails.  If you don't need to save and don't care that others can see your email, then Bob's your Uncle.  I use yopmail for throw away accounts that are almost always accepted as valid email addresses.  It also helps stop spammers from getting your real email address.

 

Best practice is to use a random string of letters as the username if you want a modicum of security. Don't provide name, address, phone # or any information that will identify you.

[gamb00ler]

I do like the smartphone app the Thai government uses to implement the 50/50 benefit for all Thai adults.  The only personal funds that are at risk is the amount you deposit into the special Promo wallet from which you make payments.  Within seconds the merchant is notified of payment so even if the buyer closes the application proof of payment is automatic.  A copy of the transaction is also saved as a photo on the buyer's smartphone.  In our case the Promo is in the name of my Thai wife but the application is on my phone as I'm the one who goes to pickup the take away food.????

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I never use a creditcard i feel they are far more vulnerable to fraud. 

Wrong. Do a little research.

 

Quote

Some of the advantages credit cards have over debit cards and cash as a payment method are obvious. The best credit cards can earn you quite a bit back in rewards. They’ll also help you build your credit. What consumers often don’t realize, though, is that credit cards are also the most secure payment method you can find.

Considering how rampant fraud is and that a new major data breach is announced seemingly every few months, security is more important than ever. When you’re picking your primary payment method, there are several key reasons why a credit card is the smartest choice.

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/credit-cards/articles/5-reasons-credit-cards-are-the-most-secure-way-to-pay/

 

[robblok]

30 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Wrong. Do a little research.

 

 

Im not wrong, you dont have a clue. You go to a supermarket see what you paid for (consumeables) pay with QR. How can that go wrong ? and how do you need insurance.

 

If you read about creditcard fraud its all over the place. Waiters looking at your code copying it and using it then you have the hassle of sorting it out. 

 

Creditcards might have advantages if you buy big tickets. But for shopping at the makro or other groceries or small payments (what its used for) there are no risks. Creditcards on the other hand..... cashier notes your details and wham bam you can get defrauded.

[robblok]

Went to the big C, goes faster as paying with my debit card (of course you do need your phone and bank app read) but same goes for the debit card.

 

I think for people who know how to use it it goes faster then cards and cash. (especially cash as the cashier has to count it and so on)

[mrwebb8825]

I think the world is heading that way anyway and covid just sped it up a bit. I just saw for the 1st time a new IRA company package that allows everything to be done with crypto. (this was on a US tv station) I don't see this as the new norm until there is ubiquitous IT coverage of the entire planet. This would also need every man, woman and child to have a phone and an app that crosses all OSs for those phones.

Countries like China and North Korea have already demonstrated that they ARE monitoring their citizens and so, by default, anyone transacting with their citizens.

My wife will use it LONG before this ol' dinosaur as my 1 and only experience with phone app payment/banking has been someone depositing a small amount of money in my bank account and then calling to get it back. Nope, didn't know them. Complete stranger. Yep, they got it back after relinquishing their banking details to my wife and having the funds returned via an ATM transfer.

[MadMuhammad]

On 12/12/2021 at 9:37 AM, robblok said:

Depends on the user for me it goes faster then paying with cash and receiving cash back.

 

At makro you just point at the screen it has the bill amount and everything just click click click. But yes you do have to get the phone ready not like some who dont. But same goes for cards. But especially credit cards are slow waiting for a machine to accept it get a signed paper back ect.

Next thing you know they'll have cardless withdrawals from ATM's with a QR code ????

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Next thing you know they'll have cardless withdrawals from ATM's with a QR code ????

They already have cardless withdrawals from ATM’s with a number code sent to your phone.... 

Edited December 14, 2021 by richard_smith237

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Next thing you know they'll have cardless withdrawals from ATM's with a QR code ????

Yes now that would be something to behold wonder if someone already thought about it ????

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

They already have cardless withdrawals from ATM’s with a number code sent to your phone.... 

I think that is why he made the wink emoticon he knew as do i.

[MadMuhammad]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think that is why he made the wink emoticon he knew as do i.

But seriously, I love the banking system here when it comes to QR's, instant transfers, deposit ATMs, PropmtPay etc. It took Australia up until fairly recently to get on board with instant transfers, especially bank to bank. Go Thailand!

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

But seriously, I love the banking system here when it comes to QR's, instant transfers, deposit ATMs, PropmtPay etc. It took Australia up until fairly recently to get on board with instant transfers, especially bank to bank. Go Thailand!

Is QR code the same as prompt pay, just paid something at paleo Robbie (food online) and it said QR code / prompt pay. But yesterday when i wanted to pay for IKEA it just said promptpay. 

 

As far as I know prompt pay is only for Thai nationals ?

 

So i paid with my Thai debit card. I like the QR codes much better on websites and stuff. 

 

Does anyone know if promptpay and QR pay are the same ?