The best country for expats to relocate to has been named

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I'm only reading those kinds of comments from weirdo conspiracy folk and the mentally ill....  Would you kick up such a fuss for a polio vaccine, or fly vaccine, or pneumonia vaccine? 

Again, apples & oranges.  

 

Better question;  Would I kick up such a fuss for a non mRNA 'vaccine' that actually works (old definition), and actually provides some type of immunity ?  ... Of course not.

 

Or one, even a mRNA one, that wasn't rushed to market, and the actual research & trial info was available to be peer reviewed, independently ... possibly not.

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

When I went to grade school in the U.S  there were multiple required vaccinations. Nobody batted an eyelid 

true, but it wasn't done in the same emergency situation

 

when so much pressure is being put on something, 99% of the time it's not for the right reasons

[BritManToo]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

When I went to grade school in the U.S  there were multiple required vaccinations. Nobody batted an eyelid 

Nothing was required in the UK.

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I'm only reading those kinds of comments from weirdo conspiracy folk and the mentally ill....  Would you kick up such a fuss for a polio vaccine, or fly vaccine, or pneumonia vaccine? 

I never had flu or pneumonia vaccine, most people harmed by these are at death's door anyway.

Polio vaccine, I only had once, if I needed it every 6 months for the rest of my life I probably wouldn't have had that either.

 

How has a 'best country for expats' thread morphed into another 'pro-vaxxer' thread?

Edited December 19, 2021 by BritManToo

[simon43]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I never had flu or pneumonia vaccine, most people harmed by these are at death's door anyway.

Polio vaccine, I only had once, if I needed it every 6 months for the rest of my life I probably wouldn't have had that either.

 

How has a 'best country for expats' thread morphed into another 'pro-vaxxer' thread?

Maybe if one criteria for living in such and such country is the requirement to be vaxxed.  As for my new location (Turkey), although a double vax and pre-flight PCR test was stated online, in practice, nothing was requested of me at Istanbul immigration.  Some people (like myself), wear masks in public, most don't. (I wear a mask to protect my lungs from the rather chilly Winter air).  Masks in public indoor places (shopping centres etc) are required.

[World Traveller2]

5 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

I hate to say it, but it looks like the anti-vaxx might actually get what they wished for, a totalitarian state using vaccination as an excuse. It shouldn't be that way. Let people choose.

I have been following Zeynep Tufecki * a sociologist not virologist, on the social implications of imprudent (in some cases denial, in others over-reach) government responses to a real pandemic.

 

* originally from Turkey purely co-incidentally,

[World Traveller2]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

Maybe if one criteria for living in such and such country is the requirement to be vaxxed.  As for my new location (Turkey), although a double vax and pre-flight PCR test was stated online, in practice, nothing was requested of me at Istanbul immigration.  Some people (like myself), wear masks in public, most don't. (I wear a mask to protect my lungs from the rather chilly Winter air).  Masks in public indoor places (shopping centres etc) are required.

I tried to get vaxed in Turkey and failed, ditto Dubai, Ukraine and Serbia (3 days late). You'd think there was a vaccine shortage or something...

[World Traveller2]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

Maybe if one criteria for living in such and such country is the requirement to be vaxxed.  As for my new location (Turkey), although a double vax and pre-flight PCR test was stated online, in practice, nothing was requested of me at Istanbul immigration.  Some people (like myself), wear masks in public, most don't. (I wear a mask to protect my lungs from the rather chilly Winter air).  Masks in public indoor places (shopping centres etc) are required.

The airlines did heir work for them. Air Canada was very thorough in my case.

[Tippaporn]

8 hours ago, simon43 said:

Comparing the requirement to be vaccinated with Nazi Germany is (IMHO), a bit of an over-reaction.....

Perhaps you're not aware of Austria, the first country in the world to mandate compulsory vaccinations for all of their citizens to begin on Feb. 1, 2022.  Those refusing to be vaccinated will be facing quarterly fines of "up to £12,000 a year," per The Sun, and, according to the Guardian, "Those refusing to be vaccinated are likely to face administrative fines, which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine cannot be recovered."

 

After implementing a lockdown of their entire population recently it was then lifted but only for the vaccinated.  Unvaccinated were to be locked in their homes except for essentials.  As of the 17th there aims to be a holiday reprieve for the unvaccinated, according to Reuters.  "Austrian police conduct random checks to enforce Covid lockdowns for the unvaccinated," per CNCB.

 

Now I happen to be German with a great deal of familiarity with German history re the rise of Nazism.  I can't imagine how one is unable to draw parallels between the methodology of the Nazis and what is occurring in many western countries today.  Over-reaction?  You might want to study actual history, Simon.  And if you think that the issue of vaccinations is not comparable to the issues faced during Nazism then you are, in my humble opinion, foolishly missing the point that where both lead to is exactly the same place.  Only the means vary.  The end result, though, is always the same.  One has to be a bit more astute to understand that.

 

One of the prime questions asked by the victors after WWII was how it was possible for an entire population to support and cheer lead the rise of a totalitarian state.  The persecutions which took place during the rise of Nazism were gleefully supported by much of the German population.  The people had their justifications for it provided by the propaganda supplied by not only the state but by the German media and other German institutions; all considered to be authoritative. respectable and having only the interests of the people at heart.  Who can fail to see the parallels with what is being played out today with the persecution of the unvaccinated, also gleefully supported and encouraged by the people only with a different set of justifications supplied by all of the above mentioned institutions?

 

Again, if in the future Thailand falls in lockstep with other totalitarian nations then I will be gone before you can't get out.  Think that can't happen?  "Unvaccinated Australian citizens and permanent residents wishing to travel overseas (apart from children under 12 and those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons) are required to apply for an exemption to leave Australia. You can apply online for an exemption but you must meet at least one of the following criteria:", from the Australian Government's Department of Home Affairs website.

[Tippaporn]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

When I went to grade school in the U.S  there were multiple required vaccinations. Nobody batted an eyelid 

Talk about the differences between those vaccines and the current mRNA therapy (the CDC had to change the definition of both "vaccination" and "vaccine"), per the Miami Herald.  There is no one who could reasonably and honestly claim there are none.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Talk about the differences between those vaccines and the current mRNA therapy (the CDC had to change the definition of both "vaccination" and "vaccine"), per the Miami Herald.  There is no one who could reasonably and honestly claim there are none.

Let's take the vaccine talk elsewhere? Yes, when people travel or move country these days, they need to consider vaccine and testing rules. But that's not really what this topic is about.

[Tippaporn]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Let's take the vaccine talk elsewhere? Yes, when people travel or move country these days, they need to consider vaccine and testing rules. But that's not really what this topic is about.

I agree that drilling down into vaccines is off topic.  But the issue of a country's stance towards Covid, e.g. vaccine passports, is a major consideration for those who opt not to get vaccinated and therefore is a hand-in-glove fit for this topic.

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Tippaporn

[simon43]

6 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I agree that drilling down into vaccines is off topic.  But the issue of a country's stance towards Covid, e.g. vaccine passports, is a major consideration for those who opt not to get vaccinated and therefore is a hand-in-glove fit for this topic.

 

If you opt not to get vaccinated, (if not for medical reasons), then you've made your own bed and should accept whatever are the consequences of your decision, which might include fines, imprisonment, entry denied to other countries etc.  I have zero sympathy with the unvaxxed - it's their own personal decision.  

[World Traveller2]

I have an opinion on vaccination but refuse to comment because it takes the subject into a tangent where tempers will flare.

For me choosing a country has many questions and I prioritize. Also, my priorities may be different than yours.

Edited December 20, 2021 by World Traveller2

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

If you opt not to get vaccinated, (if not for medical reasons), then you've made your own bed and should accept whatever are the consequences of your decision, which might include fines, imprisonment, entry denied to other countries etc.  I have zero sympathy with the unvaxxed - it's their own personal decision.  

Many Germans were propagandised.  They fell for it hook, line and sinker.  Never questioning, never doubting, never researching the truth for themselves.  For many it was blind trust given to once respectable and trustworthy authority now corrupted.  And only when they came face to face with the stark reality of truth at war's end were they able to be convinced of their folly.  Truth does set one free.

 

Speak a bit about the adverse events reporting numbers.  Use Vaers or the European equivalent.  You played Russian roulette and you're upset that I don't wish to play.

 

I won't be as harsh and cruel of heart as you and I pray you never suffer from potential long term effects from your personal decision.

[simon43]

34 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Many Germans were propagandised.  They fell for it hook, line and sinker.  Never questioning, never doubting, never researching the truth for themselves.  For many it was blind trust given to once respectable and trustworthy authority now corrupted.  And only when they came face to face with the stark reality of truth at war's end were they able to be convinced of their folly.  Truth does set one free.

 

Speak a bit about the adverse events reporting numbers.  Use Vaers or the European equivalent.  You played Russian roulette and you're upset that I don't wish to play.

 

I won't be as harsh and cruel of heart as you and I pray you never suffer from potential long term effects from your personal decision.

Off-topic, so my last comment on this.  I'm a scientist, and have a reasonably good understanding of pathogens and vaccinations.  I'm very happy that I was vaccinated as a kid against polio, TB, smallpox, measles, tetanus, and then in later years against rabies, japanese encephalitis, flu, pneumonia etc etc.  It hasn't negatively affected my physical or mental health, (although I recognise that the health of some people are negatively affected by vaccinations).  I have very limited patience with tinhat and antivax 'nutters'.  Have a nice day ????

 

Here in Turkey, I qualify for a free booster jab after I obtain my residency card next week.  For my own personal health, it's important for me to have that booster.

 

If Covid-19 is here for the long-term, IMHO, choice of an expat destination should consider the availability of vaccinations for foreigners, rules about masks etc.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Many Germans were propagandised.  They fell for it hook, line and sinker.  Never questioning, never doubting, never researching the truth for themselves. 

How would you have researched anything for yourself in the 1930s?

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How would you have researched anything for yourself in the 1930s?

Blaiming the Jews was already 2000 years old, so did not see that one coming easy! And the borders was a mess after all the previous wars, and "The Treaty of Versailles" was fair and understandable! As well Lenin and Stalin paved the road for communism! 

 

What would have happened without Hitler? God sake it have been peace in Europe for 76 years mor or less, we should thank Him! 

 

Ups Irony

[rupert the bear]

On 12/17/2021 at 4:39 AM, mushroomdave said:

Lived in Taiwan 22+ yrs just finished recently (my post above).  I had my permanent residency (APRC) and once you have that, you do not need to work and can stay as long as you put in 183 days/year.  Of course if you marry there, you got permanent residency (through marriage/different rules) too and can stay throughout.  But for me, back around 2006 I got my permanent residency/ APRC after working/paying my taxes and no time in between jobs on an ARC (Alien Resident Card which you get first day of work) for 7 yrs.  Today this is down to 5 years.  So for anyone to just walk in, you could would have to put in 5 years of work or marry to stay/retire.  There is even a new law on my permanent residency, that being when I left in May, I still retain my Permanent Residency for 5 years without even re-entering.  And if I re-enter, I am extended another 5 years and so on.  But again, like my post above......I never met a person there that retired.  Pays well....but too many people  / housing prices unreal / humidity index unreal!!  

i spent some time in taiwan over the yrs and prefer it there to here,i wanted to go back but no retirement visa as  we all know,i liked hanging out on east coast ,u ca n buy cheap there and also kiaoshung but ARC its a bit late in the game for that for me.ive done my thing ,retired at 50 anyway,thought a bout a student visa but its stricter than it once was .so running outta options

[JustAnotherHun]

9 hours ago, simon43 said:

If you opt not to get vaccinated, (if not for medical reasons), then you've made your own bed and should accept whatever are the consequences of your decision, which might include fines, imprisonment...

Oh, so considerate? Why not demand death penalty.

Unbelievable how fast a virus can tear down the thin mask of civilization from some people.

[Glassjaw]

Vaccine mandates are good purely because it reduces my proximity to paranoid fools who would keep us in the dark ages.

Taiwan is beautiful, friendly and an amazing infrastructure, but cannot see them opening anytime soon. Summers in Taipei are next level heat and humidity, though.

[Hanuman2547]

On 12/19/2021 at 4:16 AM, Jingthing said:

When I went to grade school in the U.S  there were multiple required vaccinations. Nobody batted an eyelid 

People just went and got the vaccinations so they could attend school.  No one ever protested about it.

[cmarshall]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:26 AM, World Traveller2 said:

I have been following Zeynep Tufecki * a sociologist not virologist, on the social implications of imprudent (in some cases denial, in others over-reach) government responses to a real pandemic.

 

* originally from Turkey purely co-incidentally,

Zeynep Tufecki is a brilliant writer.  I read her columns in the NY Times with interest.

[cmarshall]

This thread has not been a complete waste of time for me at least.  My Thai wife and I are now tentatively planning to move to France in a year or two, provided that the plague is not still raging in Europe then.  I am entitled to Irish citizenship and an Irish passport based on ancestry and am waiting on one final vital document from the US before making my application to the Irish Embassy here in Bangkok.  I am pretty sure that my application will be successful, because my brother got his Irish passport on the same documents.  As an EU citizen I will have the right to enter France without a visa and to settle there.  My wife will be entitled to a carte de séjour including the right to work if she wants.  After three months we can enroll for full coverage in the French health care system.  Turns out I won't even have to pay income tax in France, since the tax treaty excludes French taxes on my Social Security benefits and distributions from IRA accounts which compose the whole of our income.  We will have to pay for the health care.

 

I have enjoyed the past ten years here in Bangkok, most of all studying Thai language, which I intend to continue in the future.  I do not despise the Thai people and feel very lucky to have been in Thailand for the pandemic.   But we think living in France and travelling in Europe by train will be a more interesting life for us.

 

My wife has already enrolled at the Alliance Française.  I will sign up there also to rehabilitate my once passable French.  

 

And so, thanks for all the fish.

Edited December 20, 2021 by cmarshall

[simon43]

4 hours ago, cmarshall said:

...

  I am entitled to Irish citizenship and an Irish passport based on ancestry and am waiting on one final vital document from the US before making my application to the Irish Embassy here in Bangkok.

...

 

Yes, same here.  My grandfather was Irish, and as a plan B (or C or D or...), my brother, who already has his EU Irish passport, is applying for the same for me and my other brother.  I have no immediate plans to move to an EU country - see my comments about cost of living etc, but it does no harm to remove any visa requirements for UK citizens, (just in case).

[simon43]

double post!

Edited December 21, 2021 by simon43

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, cmarshall said:

This thread has not been a complete waste of time for me at least. 

Agree, though I need to access my 'life expectancy' vs 'laziness factor', as 68, and house will be finished beginning of next year, 2 months hopefully.  Talked with my long lost cousin the other day, and her father, my cousin is 84, and sharp as a tack & mobile, so I may be around longer than I thought.

 

Turkey & visiting the E. Bloc area has really sparked my interest, and could kill a few years doing that.  One of the countries that accepts Thai PP (Turkey).  Only issue is having daughter (now self sufficient) & dog here, and more so, my laziness to venture out again.

 

House done, and another trip around this tiny a$$ country, and I may be suicidal afterward.  After I kill another year or so here, then see how the 'war on viruses' goes, if they milk that to 'never ending' like drugs & terror.  Then the decision is made for me.  Being they're making billions $$$ from it, I can't see it ending.

Edited December 21, 2021 by KhunLA

[Tony125]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:00 AM, Jingthing said:

Oh please.

If you read the article you would know this was not cartel related.

Also it's well known that Cuernevaca is not on the list of safest Mexican destinations to live.

To be clear I am not saying that Mexico is perfectly safe or a crime free paradise any more than the USA is. But I am saying if you pick your location there carefully and practice common sense risk avoidance, it would be irrational to rule out the country entirely based on crime fear.

It's not just Cartels commiting crimes. 

 

Texas Couple Found Tortured and Murdered During Family Trip to Mexico

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/texas-couple-found-tortured-and-murdered-during-family-trip-to-mexico/ar-AASX3qY?li=BBnb7Kz

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

It's not just Cartels commiting crimes. 

 

Texas Couple Found Tortured and Murdered During Family Trip to Mexico

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/texas-couple-found-tortured-and-murdered-during-family-trip-to-mexico/ar-AASX3qY?li=BBnb7Kz

Juarez!

[Henryford]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:15 AM, Jerno said:

Canada's great place, but housing costs in any major city is horrific.  Average house price in Toronto is over CA$1,300,000.  Try that as expat on a pension or retirement savings.

How does anyone afford that, even working Canadians. Same in Australia.