The best country for expats to relocate to has been named

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

The nice thing about Portugal is it's beautiful, historic, and handy to the rest of Europe awa nth Africa for visits. And you can actually read the language even if you can't speak it (not to be sneezed at for longterm stay).

But there are always personal taste factors. I have taken a very long vacation there driving all around the country (but sadly didn't make it as far north as Porto). It was a great vacation (though my car was broken into it) but for some personal temperamental reason, I was super happy to get on the plane getting out of there. Contrast to my first trip to Thailand where I immediately felt -- how can I move here ASAP? 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

As an American with adequate wealth to live quite comfortably in countries like Thailand, Mexico, Colombia, and the Philippines I find the "safety" issue quite amusing. On my budget I would be lucky to find a rusted trailer infested with snakes in a decrepit backwater filled with drug addicts to live in back in the U.S. Now there is a REAL safety issue. (OK I admit a tad of exaggerated literary license there.) The trick with living with relatively safety in the countries with bad reputations is to pick your specific location carefully, avoid the bad parts of town just as you would at home, and avoid the drug and sex trade. Even with someone like me with low wealth level for the U.S. there are tons of good such choices in Latin America. There is a difference to Thailand with the Americas for mongers.  That's safe here (other than diseases) but it puts you into a high crime risk in the Americas. I realize there are many sexpats in Thailand, so yes understood if that would be a turn off. 

Also if you're wealthy and coming from a place like Switzerland your baseline acceptance of crime risk will be very low.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[simon43]

I just relocated to the sunny coast in Turkey.  Reasons:

 

1 - Very easy annual visa, (you just need $400 per month income/pension)

2 - You can buy land/own a house (I always prefer to rent - $350 for a rural bungalow in 1 acre of land just 300 metres from the beach).

3 - Tasty food, healthy food if you don't eat too much of their meat dishes

4 - No major language problems in tourist resorts

5 - Cheap cost of living (and getting cheaper by the day as the exchange rate dives - happy that my income is in USD).

6 - Beaches minutes away and winter skiing about 1 hour away from my new home

7 - Safe, (but I always sleep with a metal baseball bat anyway!!)

8 - Pegged increases for the UK state pension (not so in Thailand etc)

9 - Muslim country, but no-one seems to actually go to the local mosques! The call to prayer is not intrusive as in some countries.

10 - Reasonably decent state hospitals, and compulsory medical insurance for these (about $60 per year - I also have a $1M expat policy)

 

Downsides for me:

1 - Paypal not available (same as Thailand for most of us!) I've started using Payoneer more than Paypal nowadays

2 - Women are really not of interest to me here - I'm not a hansum man. (I plan a 2 week holiday of debauchery in LoS sometime next year...)

3 - Erdogan seems as mad as a bat, but I doubt whether he will make decisions that will negatively affect the income from foreign tourists.

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by simon43

[Pravda]

15 hours ago, Jerno said:

Canada's great place, but housing costs in any major city is horrific.  Average house price in Toronto is over CA$1,300,000.  Try that as expat on a pension or retirement savings.

 

1.3 million is the price of a townhouse in Mississauga. 

[Damrongsak]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

I just relocated to the sunny coast in Turkey. ...

I have a chance to visit Turkey this coming spring.  Friends (Turkish guy, Thai wife) are going back from USA to visit family.  We've known them for 20+ years and get along well.  His wife even speaks the same Isaan Lao as my wife (Luang Prabang dialect - Loei/Petchabun), but louder ????.  Not sure which area he plans to visit.  We'll see. 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

I just relocated to the sunny coast in Turkey. 

...

 

So you don't say WHERE in Turkey?

I'm curious but I don't blame you!

[alyx]

17 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

I'm currently looking at both, Malaysia and Vietnam, as options for myself. (But also Turkey and Portugal.) Never considered Taiwan, but I guess it's more an option if you've got a well-paid job there.

Try Greece. Easy going. population and inexpensive day to day cost

[simon43]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So you don't say WHERE in Turkey?

I'm curious but I don't blame you!

My apologies - Turkey is indeed a large country ????  I relocated to a rural property a few Km outside Fethiye, on the south-west  'Turquoise' coast.  Fethiye is well-known as a retirement location for British people leaving the UK for more sunny climes.  As such, the town is well-developed, with more than enough restaurants (but not a Thai restaurant!), a 5Km walking/jogging track by the beach etc.  I don't like living in cities or towns, but I appreciate their amenities.  So I rent a basic car and pop into town for shopping most days.

 

BTW, from my enquiries on the local FB group, there is a very high demand for a genuine Thai restaurant. (Many Brits love Thai food and pay through the nose for it in the UK).  My 3rd Thai ex (the sane one) has had to close her small hotel business in Phuket due to Covid, and she is a great cook!  She wants to come and live with me, and would love to open a home-delivery Thai food business - I'm sure it would be a successful small business.  Alas, the work permit rules make it all but impossible (like Thailand, you need to employ a number of local citizens to get the WP).  Ah well, pass over that idea ????

[simon43]

7 hours ago, alyx said:

Try Greece. Easy going. population and inexpensive day to day cost

I also did this before relocating to Turkey.  I found that ALL countries using the Euro were more expensive than countries not using it, although of course, there was variation in living costs between those euro countries.

 

For example, look at this comparison between Fethiye, Turkey (where I now live), and Corfu, Greece, which is also a popular destination for retirees:

 

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Turkey&country2=Greece&city1=Fethiye&city2=Corfu

 

Rent prices in Corfu are 115% higher than in Fethiye

Restaurant prices are 419% (!!) higher than in Fethiye

Grocery prices are 240% higher than in Fethiye

 

The difference is staggering - no problem of course if you have the cash......

[actonion]

Taiwan maybe number one,  but they do not  have any Retirement Visas 

[jvs]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:15 AM, Jerno said:

Canada's great place, but housing costs in any major city is horrific.  Average house price in Toronto is over CA$1,300,000.  Try that as expat on a pension or retirement savings.

I used to live in the snow belt in Canada,if i compare the cold over there to sitting outside over here

having my morning coffee,no need for a snow blower here.

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, actonion said:

Taiwan maybe number one,  but they do not  have any Retirement Visas 

Yes its for working expats.

[World Traveller2]

59 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I also did this before relocating to Turkey.  I found that ALL countries using the Euro were more expensive than countries not using it, although of course, there was variation in living costs between those euro countries.

 

For example, look at this comparison between Fethiye, Turkey (where I now live), and Corfu, Greece, which is also a popular destination for retirees:

 

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Turkey&country2=Greece&city1=Fethiye&city2=Corfu

 

Rent prices in Corfu are 115% higher than in Fethiye

Restaurant prices are 419% (!!) higher than in Fethiye

Grocery prices are 240% higher than in Fethiye

 

The difference is staggering - no problem of course if you have the cash......

This is hilarious. I visited seven or eight cities in Turkey in the late winter to spring, and Fethiye was the*only* dump I promised myself I would never return to - ugly city, aggressive drunk, criminal vibe etc.  of course, this was all downtiwn. There was one small city (town) very nearby Fethiye that I would consider but only for a very quiet existence. Mostly I loved Istanbul, Gaziantep, and Antakya.

 

Turkey is an open secret for European expats. So few Americans and Canadians. I could elucidate the major attractions. Basically I agree with you, especially on the 'not a place to find hookers'. Turkish men go to Ukraine, Dubai and Thailand. But for breakfast spreads, excellent infrastructure, moderate Islam (even the call to prayer is tolerable in most places), nice people and super value. Best place in the world for kindness to stray dogs and cats.

 

If I wasn't interested in getting laid by a non-gf under 23 I would completely give up on Thailand vs. Turkey. I met numerous older women in a certain chain shop who clearly I could have booked up with. Frankly, Turkey is much more of a homosexual scene. A gay friend swears by the place, but for affairs, not P4P. The moustached and bearded macho men are stunning, the women mediocre. If only I could change my taste - I adore tiny, hairless, small to medium-breasted super-slim gals 18-21. Turkey is a waste of time for this profile. Actually, so lately (as a retiree on a low budget) is Thailand!

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, World Traveller2 said:

This is hilarious. I visited seven or eight cities in Turkey in the late winter to spring, and Fethiye was the*only* dump I promised myself I would never return to - ugly city, aggressive drunk, criminal vibe etc.  of course, this was all downtiwn. There was one small city (town) very nearby Fethiye that I would consider but only for a very quiet existence. Mostly I loved Istanbul, Gaziantep, and Antakya.

 

Turkey is an open secret for European expats. So few Americans and Canadians. I could elucidate the major attractions. Basically I agree with you, especially on the 'not a place to find hookers'. Turkish men go to Ukraine, Dubai and Thailand. But for breakfast spreads, excellent infrastructure, moderate Islam (even the call to prayer is tolerable in most places), nice people and super value. Best place in the world for kindness to stray dogs and cats.

 

If I wasn't interested in getting laid by a non-gf under 23 I would completely give up on Thailand vs. Turkey. I met numerous older women in a certain chain shop who clearly I could have booked up with. Frankly, Turkey is much more of a homosexual scene. A gay friend swears by the place, but for affairs, not P4P. The moustached and bearded macho men are stunning, the women mediocre. If only I could change my taste - I adore tiny, hairless, small to medium-breasted super-slim gals 18-21. Turkey is a waste of time for this profile. Actually, so lately (as a retiree on a low budget) is Thailand!

Cool!

 

More on Turkey.

 

 

How about tiny, hairless, small to medium-breasted super-slim GUYS? Ha ha

[AussieBob9999]

Jingthing beat me to it - that review was not for retirement locations, it was done by Internations (mainly business people) through an online poll they did of their members at each location.  If 90% of members in Taiwan said it was great and only 80% of Mexico said the same - Taiwan wins.  How many Internations members in Taiwan - probably not a lot compared to say Singapore. 

 

International Living released their list and Thailand aint on it - mainly for Americans.

https://internationalliving.com/the-best-places-to-retire/

 

An Australian site gave their cheapest list and again Thailand aint on it:

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/retirement/the-five-cheapest-countries-in-the-world-to-retire/

 

That site reckons 11,000 Aussies retire and move overseas every year.  I imagine that number is about the same (relatively) in each western country.  Does Thailand realise how many people are no longer looking at Thailand as an ideal place to retire in SEAsia - over 10 years ago they were at the top of nearly every list.  I know that the current Govt doesn't want them - only the rich ones - but when will they realise what that policy is costing them - 2023 election maybe? 

 

 

[World Traveller2]

I don't recommend Turkey even for gay-curious persons. That is, if you like S. E. Asian body type and face. You know - Javanese, Khmer, Tai Yai. Turks are a large, hairy people. With my erotic aesthetic Turkish women rarely 'check any boxes' for me. So I didn't check any boxes.

 

Another great thing is Turks are much closer to westerners in thinking and behaviour. I actually made friends there. And talk about world-class museums and history! Near Syria, in Antakya staying at my CAD$13 hotel room with fabulous vegetarian-friendly (albeit certainly not vegan) breakfast buffet I would go hiking in the mountains and literally trip over Roman, Byzantine and Seljuk ruins.

 

Of course, cost factor (bargain)  could change if Turkish gov't gets FXS and economy in order.

 

I highly recommend Turkey for heterosexual women.

Edited December 15, 2021 by World Traveller2

[Mac Mickmanus]

The horn/beeper noise from the motorbikes makes Vietnam to be unlivable, for me  

[World Traveller2]

Re: International Living

That resource for me is very inappropriate (in the true meaning of the word). Their targeted demographic is clearly American and Canadian couples, who have 'means' (i.e. substantial savings and income), In fact, I suspect that their major income is real estate advertorials.  You aren't paying a serious subscription fee ($250 per year) that would make intelligence-gathering high standard. So, the content is worse than mediocre IMHO. I find their intelligence on exotic places very weak. Portugal, Spain, Latvia. Oh!

 

Context: I have been spending aprox. 1/3 of evey year overseas, mostly in Asia (especially SEA) for thirty years. IL completely bores me to tears. Nothing I can chew on - Myanmar, DRC, Venezuela, Borneo's three options, barely anything even on Asia.

 

Plus, I live on CAD2K per month and avoid relationships that last more than three hours. Absolutely not their targeted readership.

Edited December 15, 2021 by World Traveller2
spelling

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The horn/beeper noise from the motorbikes makes Vietnam to be unlivable, for me  

Been there lots in the past few years pre-COVID.

I didn't even notice any road noise when I had a room overlooking Sept11 park in Saigon.

One of the locals had to teach me to cross the road though, "Just pretend there's no traffic and walk out, they will all avoid you"

[simon43]

1 hour ago, World Traveller2 said:

... and Fethiye was the*only* dump I promised myself I would never return to - ugly city, aggressive drunk, criminal vibe etc. ...

Well, the typical 'Brit' living/visiting Fethiye seems to be about 70 years old ????  I haven't seen any drunks or aggressive pensioners yet!  But certainly, it seems to attract working class retired Brits, presumably because it is cheap.  But as I said, I don't live in Fethiye, only pop in to use the shops.

 

Here is a photo I took a minute ago of my 1 acre garden, with plenty of orange trees.  The beach is just behind the trees at the back of the photo.

 

Certainly I advise doing a cost of living check for living in an EU country.  I looked at Greece, Portugal etc, and then compared with Turkey and North Cyprus.  I initially planned to relocate to North Cyprus, but the government didn't yet issue me with my radio amateur licence.  So I decided to stay in Turkey (no problems to use my ham equipment....)

[World Traveller2]

Simon43, the drunk was a young local. Certainly not the level of public drunkeness as in Ukraine.  This guy was a one-off, the only anti-social behaviour I observed in two months in fact.  Still, as I said Fethiye was the only place I visited were the hotels were lousy value and somebody high on something was making a nuisance of himself. Also, the food sucked. Could have just been I had 24-hour bad luck. But the place was so out of character with say, Alanya or Antalya, I quickly moved on. Oh, there was one other place in my explorations along the eastern coast and further inland that I did not like - Mardin. My Kurdish friend raved about the place. What a disappointment!

 

I am sure there are hundreds of places I would like a lot in Turkey. And the country makes staying there for retirees a lot easier than a certain ASEAN nation that lost its shine 10-15 years ago. Plus, high-speed rail is a reality, not just talk. Infrastructure was so good it reminded me of Japan. Turkey is *not* the Middle East - not in any way.

 

I tried to get to Northern Cyprus but the borders were closed in March.

Edited December 15, 2021 by World Traveller2

[simon43]

[quote]... also the food sucked... [/quote]

 

I'm sure a lot of places serve cheap food for the expat retiree crowd - I saw chicken and chips, loads of cheap meat etc.  But I'm a healthy eater, mainly salads and nuts.  The salads that I've been served so far in Fethiye have been freshly-prepared and full of different veggies etc.  So I'm happy with the kind of food that is available ????

[Hummin]

On 12/14/2021 at 7:27 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

What's the point of such best of lists?

Like: what's the best car? What's the best computer? What's the best whatever?

Answer: It depends on what you are looking for. There is no such thing as "the best" for all of us.

The list is made for "Best country for working expats", and not best for  retired retarded expats. Thailand is still one of the best options in that category.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Hummin

[JackGats]

How could such lists be any good? They do not even do their homework on the tax and visa/residency issues.

[World Traveller2]

And these lists are not made by a large group of mature, well-travelled individuals. I suspect they are made by wet-behind-the-ears reporters sitting at a desk job. They might not even own a passport. So, very limited world experience. It's like the reports I see published that "China has the most vegetarians in the world". Yeah, if you count Taiwan as PCR and are going by sheer numbers. Maybe. But practically speaking, no where close. I know from multiple trips to Guangzhou province.

 

No context.

[JackGats]

16 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

Downsides for me:

 

2 - Women are really not of interest to me here - I'm not a hansum man. (I plan a 2 week holiday of debauchery in LoS sometime next year...)

 

 

Turkey is if anything a paradise for gay men, not a paradise for straight mongers for sure. So if women are not your thing that should not be a downside.

 

P.S. Countries in SA that to my knowledge do not tax foreign pensions (given the right visa) are:

 

Chile

Ecuador

Peru

Costa Rica

Panama

Uruguay

Argentina

 

Most will tax other type of revenue though. Uruguay only taxes what is earnt within Uruguay.

Edited December 15, 2021 by JackGats

[ramrod711]

They better be well off if they choose Canada, wouldn't hurt if they were fans of cool weather either

[World Traveller2]

11 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

They better be well off if they choose Canada, wouldn't hurt if they were fans of cool weather either

The sun is hot

[OneMoreFarang]

55 minutes ago, Hummin said:

The list is made for "Best country for working expats", and not best for  retired retarded expats. Thailand is still one of the best options in that category.

But even then it makes little sense. Or do all working expats have the same goals, like to live in the same climate, speak the same language, etc.? 

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or do all working expats have the same goals

My goal was always to earn as much money as fast as I could, so I could retire.