ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[unheard]

On 11/19/2022 at 6:22 PM, placeholder said:

Electric car waiting list in Australia (July 2022)

There's a waiting list for most cars, not just electric.

e.g. Hyundai:

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/new-car-wait-times-australia-2022/

 

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/australia-new-car-delays-top-20-models-affected-october-update

 

[KhunLA]

19th Century tech / Petrol - fossil fuel from fossil age

21st Century tech / EVs - renewable Solar
Choice is your, live in the past, or move forward

 

That ol' petrol thing will be gone by the end of the month.   Obsolete and now use for it.

 

Actually would like to keep it, as love it, but know we'll never use it.  Got 2 back ups already, along with pedal bike & our feet.   Nothing needed that is far away.

 

[KhunLA]

PKK - HH - Kanchanaburi - Krung Thep - HH - PKK

 

Kudos to the MG ZS, provides amazingly accurate info.

Consistently getting better than the WLTP & NEDC range ratings.

Considering their ratings are done @ 47 & 37 kph

 

Photos are self explanatory:

 

 

 

 

[seedy]

https://www.engadget.com/airbus-reveals-hydrogen-powered-aircraft-fuel-cell-engine-142256225.html

[patman30]

When EV use NiFe batteries
or newer designed batteries based on NiFe
then i will consider buying one
and i already have Solar

[vinny41]

On 11/24/2022 at 2:15 AM, KhunLA said:

19th Century tech / Petrol - fossil fuel from fossil age

21st Century tech / EVs - renewable Solar
Choice is your, live in the past, or move forward

 

That ol' petrol thing will be gone by the end of the month.   Obsolete and now use for it.

 

Actually would like to keep it, as love it, but know we'll never use it.  Got 2 back ups already, along with pedal bike & our feet.   Nothing needed that is far away.

 

Actually your EV's could be considered Obsolete if you live in Switzerland'

Switzerland Considers Electric Vehicle Ban To Avoid Blackouts

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Switzerland-Considers-Electric-Vehicle-Ban-To-Avoid-Blackouts.html

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Actually your EV's could be considered Obsolete if you live in Switzerland'

Switzerland Considers Electric Vehicle Ban To Avoid Blackouts

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Switzerland-Considers-Electric-Vehicle-Ban-To-Avoid-Blackouts.html

Solar = INDEPENDENCE

#1 reason why I have solar

Also #1 reason why I don't live in such 'nanny states'

 

I don't want or need anything from Govt or state run monopolies:

... electric

... fossil fuel

... water

 

Learned decades ago, never depend on people, govt, corporations or give control to anyone things you need or want.

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Solar = INDEPENDENCE

#1 reason why I have solar

Also #1 reason why I don't live in such 'nanny states'

 

I don't want or need anything from Govt or state run monopolies:

... electric

... fossil fuel

... water

 

Learned decades ago, never depend on people, govt, corporations or give control to anyone things you need or want.

If you had read the article you would have seen that Switzerland is considering a ban on the use of EV's so having solar power doesn't help Ev owners in Switzerland their vechicles will be banned along with non solar power owners

If you don't want or need anything from Govt or state run monopolies: are you saying that you don't use or need roads, motorways airports

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If you had read the article you would have seen that Switzerland is considering a ban on the use of EV's so having solar power doesn't help Ev owners in Switzerland their vechicles will be banned along with non solar power owners

If you don't want or need anything from Govt or state run monopolies: are you saying that you don't use or need roads, motorways airports

No, didn't bother, as can't really get any more irrelevant on a Thai motoring thread than a Swiss news blip.  Should that be countered with a Norwegian news-blip about EVs.

 

As for the other infrastructure that I use, that solar or having EVs has nothing to do with, and it's not mandatory to use, then it's simply my tax baht at work.

 

What if scenarios, along with irrelevant mango & papaya comparisons don't add much to an ICE vs EV discussion.

 

Already established, EVs aren't for everyone.

IF  you like you ICE, and dependency to big oil / fossil fuel, (if no solar), than keep your ICE and stay on the grid ... just don't complain about the air pollution.

 

What if the grid crashes tomorrow ... I'll still have power at the house, and won't have to walk to the market.  Can pedal bike it, ebike it, e-MB it, or take that marvel of Chinese technology, powered by that Chinese solar system.

 

Oh my ... say it's not so.

CHINA ROCKS

[vinny41]

21 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No, didn't bother, as can't really get any more irrelevant on a Thai motoring thread than a Swiss news blip.  Should that be countered with a Norwegian news-blip about EVs.

 

As for the other infrastructure that I use, that solar or having EVs has nothing to do with, and it's not mandatory to use, then it's simply my tax baht at work.

 

What if scenarios, along with irrelevant mango & papaya comparisons don't add much to an ICE vs EV discussion.

 

Already established, EVs aren't for everyone.

IF  you like you ICE, and dependency to big oil / fossil fuel, (if no solar), than keep your ICE and stay on the grid ... just don't complain about the air pollution.

 

What if the grid crashes tomorrow ... I'll still have power at the house, and won't have to walk to the market.  Can pedal bike it, ebike it, e-MB it, or take that marvel of Chinese technology, powered by that Chinese solar system.

 

Oh my ... say it's not so.

CHINA ROCKS

The Title of this thread is ICE vs EV, the debate thread there are many posts that include countries that are outside Thailand

If the grid crash tomorrow the majority of supermarkets would be closed as there would be no lighting, cash tills would not function,  refrigerators not working, no fresh bread

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:04 PM, BritManToo said:

Car battery lasts 8-10 years, then it'll be $20,000* for a new battery.

Which is probably more than the resale value of the car.

Can't see dumping cars every 8-10 years as good for the world (or our pockets).

My diesel pickup is 24 years old and still going strong.

 

*Tesla charge $22,000 for a new battery.

It's the wrong technology anyway. Hydrogen eliminates oil and doesn't require a massive infrastructure rebuild- no batterys costing $22,000 either.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

The Title of this thread is ICE vs EV, the debate thread there are many posts that include countries that are outside Thailand

If the grid crash tomorrow the majority of supermarkets would be closed as there would be no lighting, cash tills would not function,  refrigerators not working, no fresh bread

I probably ignored most of those also.

 

I'm smelling sale at the ex-frozen food section ????

[Skallywag]

The way I see it is 95% of the retired expats in Pattaya who own a scooter or a car, really do not need either.  Only reason would be to take a trip, but this can be done by renting a car for a month or simply hiring a taxi/van service or taking a bus.  Big C or Makro shopping? You can hire a Songthaew to take your food home or have it delivered.  

 

Taking a girl to 3 Mermaids for a nice meal?  Hire a Bolt taxi and sit in back and cuddle with your companion while someone else drives and drops you off - no parking hassles ever!  

I am a retired expat living here for 4 years without any motorized vehicle and have no problems.

 

So for me the real debate is why do you need to "own" any motorized vehicle

[petermik]

9 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

 

 

So for me the real debate is why do you need to "own" any motorized vehicle

Freedom of choice and not being reliant on others......

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

So for me the real debate is why do you need to "own" any motorized vehicle

Need ... No

Want ... Yes

 

[seedy]

 

[macahoom]

On 12/3/2022 at 6:08 PM, Skallywag said:

So for me the real debate is why do you need to "own" any motorized vehicle

Bear in mind, we humans are not all the same.

 

My primary reason for owning a motorized vehicle is because I love driving; always have. I’ve always been interested in cars, although wouldn’t know how to change a wheel!

 

At this point in time, I have two cars, both 100% electric. Fantastic!

 

You mention taxis. I hate taxis, for so many reasons. 

 

I cannot imagine my life without me owning a car.

 

[JBChiangRai]

On 12/2/2022 at 11:51 AM, patman30 said:

When EV use NiFe batteries
or newer designed batteries based on NiFe
then i will consider buying one
and i already have Solar

NiFe energy density is too low for EV's, they would be far too heavy

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, macahoom said:

My primary reason for owning a motorized vehicle is because I love driving; always have....I cannot imagine my life without me owning a car.

 

Love the independence & freedom to be O&A, when & where I please.

[MJCM]

On 12/3/2022 at 6:08 PM, Skallywag said:

The way I see it is 95% of the retired expats in Pattaya who own a scooter or a car, really do not need either.  Only reason would be to take a trip, but this can be done by renting a car for a month or simply hiring a taxi/van service or taking a bus.  Big C or Makro shopping? You can hire a Songthaew to take your food home or have it delivered.  

 

Taking a girl to 3 Mermaids for a nice meal?  Hire a Bolt taxi and sit in back and cuddle with your companion while someone else drives and drops you off - no parking hassles ever!  

I am a retired expat living here for 4 years without any motorized vehicle and have no problems.

 

So for me the real debate is why do you need to "own" any motorized vehicle

I agree with what you write about the Expats in Pattaya, when we lived in Pattaya we only had a bike and if we went shopping and if we bought a lot we used the Taxi's they have at Big C Extra (for example), so no need for a car really. If we wanted to go eat Seafood in Ban Amphur we just ordered a Taxi Meter (no BOLT / Grab etc there then)

 

But now living in the Sticks in Isarn, we need a car as it's a 90km Round Trip to the nearest Big C / Makro. Very close (5km) we can do shopping but it's very limited. Ooh I also forget Immigration? That is also a 80km Round trip.  Ooh what about Hospital then? The place nearby here they call hospital, you wouldn't get me in there even if they dragged me, so where is then the Hospital? Also a 80km Round trip.

 

So here we need to own one, and as at the moment our Car is in for "unexpected" repairs which will last at least a week and we have given our 2nd car a couple of months back to my Wife's daughter, I do think my plea for an EV (at the SWMBO) will be heard and I guess that a new (2nd) car (EV or ICE) will be here soon.

 

So in Pattaya living in a Condo not going out much, NO need for a car really but NOT everyone lives that way.

 

Ooh one more thing, my FIL just passed away and for the family (who lives even further away from the city) a CAR is totally necessary and even in normal live. Yeah have fun going shopping for 6 people on a Bike ????

[patman30]

On 12/6/2022 at 9:27 AM, JBChiangRai said:

NiFe energy density is too low for EV's, they would be far too heavy

There is always one
please read what i wrote
"or newer designed batteries based on NiFe"

"Xilectric is developing a totally new class of low-cost rechargeable batteries with a chemistry analogous to the original nickel-iron Edison battery."

Source: https://xilectric.com/

it is also not that they cannot be used
they have been used already
the issue is they will not provide today's desired performance

[JBChiangRai]

13 minutes ago, patman30 said:

There is always one
please read what i wrote
"or newer designed batteries based on NiFe"

"Xilectric is developing a totally new class of low-cost rechargeable batteries with a chemistry analogous to the original nickel-iron Edison battery."

Source: https://xilectric.com/

it is also not that they cannot be used
they have been used already
the issue is they will not provide today's desired performance

You are both wrong and out of date.

 

Xilectric did do a project that ran from 10 years ago and finishing 7 years ago, but they are now focused on improving Lithium based based batteries, your quote wasn't from Xilectric.com but from the equally old US Department of Energy's Advanced Research Projects Agency, they also go on to state LiION batteries only give a range of about 100 miles.

 

 

You're right "There is always one....."

[patman30]

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You are both wrong and out of date.

 

Xilectric did do a project that ran from 10 years ago and finishing 7 years ago, but they are now focused on improving Lithium based based batteries, your quote wasn't from Xilectric.com but from the equally old US Department of Energy's Advanced Research Projects Agency, they also go on to state LiION batteries only give a range of about 100 miles.

 

 

You're right "There is always one....."

quote was taken from their site when it was on there
i got it from an old tweet of mine, which at the time took it from their site
*websites do update you know

my original point still stands,
if you read it a few times maybe you will understand it
 

[JBChiangRai]

33 minutes ago, patman30 said:

quote was taken from their site when it was on there
 

Pffft, of course it was

 

Until late 2016/early 2017 their website was just a single page without the quote, they changed their focus in 2017 to additive chemistry, specifically around the area of cathodes I think.

 

It would probably surprise you to know I do know my Lithium based batteries have a large solar installation at home with 28.8KWhr's of LiFePo4 batteries that I assembled myself into a pack with Ant BMS and Active Balancer.

 

I also drive a 680hp Battery EV Car and have a degree in Electronic Engineering. 

[seedy]

Long time from 2018 until today.

EV and battery tech come a long ways

Might as well quote the performance of the EV from 1870 as quote one from almost 5 years ago.

[KhunLA]

How long do EV batteries last you ask ?

 

"According to current industry expectations, EV batteries are projected to last between 100,000 and 200,000 miles, or about 15 to 20 years."

https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-longevity

 

"Tesla battery’s expected life vs. warranty coverage

On Twitter, Elon Musk explained that Tesla car batteries should last for 300,000 to 500,000 miles or 1,500 battery charge cycles. That’s between 22 and 37 years for the average car driver, who, according to the Department of Transportation (DOT), drives 13,476 miles per year. One Tesla owner has reportedly driven his Tesla Model S over a million miles, according to CleanTechnica. Though that Tesla battery has lasted, the owner reports having replaced his Tesla motor several times."

https://news.energysage.com/how-long-do-tesla-car-batteries-last/

[KhunLA]

He's one for the Anti-EV'ers, who think they spontaneously ignite, or blow up over speed bumps ????

 

They suspect this idiot purposely drove his Tesla off a cliff, miraculously survived, him & 3 others (2 kids), and appears the battery pack wasn't even compromised.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-man-intentionally-drove-tesla-off-cliff-another-adult-2-kids-car-authorities

 

[seedy]

More Musk from the King of Ball Shoot

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/south-korea-fines-tesla-22-mln-exaggerating-driving-range-evs-2023-01-03/

[KhunLA]

Short Out & About yesterday, PKK to Chumphon w/overnight

 

Cost MG ZS EV vs MG ZS ICE ... 1/5 the cost of petrol
EV ... ฿350 / $11 @ Charging Station
ICE ... ฿1910 / $55 USD

ICE #s  ...  IF we still had the ICE, and used that instead.

 

Difference paid for hotel & dinner ... THANK YOU ????

[KhunLA]

????