Welder purchase advice

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I never would have known the danger of galvanized if a friend hadn't warned me when I told him of my plan to start welding. He said to have a good fan to blow away the smoke.

All welding smoke is not good for you, and it is important you do not breath in the smoke ye. So a plan when you start welding have a welding exhoust, a fan or the wind in your back. Still with fan and wind in your back you will get some smoke because of turbelence around you. 

 

Anyway, it is going to be fun to start velding again after 35 years almost I quit my job building fishing sorting machines. 

 

Weld everything aluminium, stainless, black steel,  galv, with electrodes, mig and tig. 

 

So Im a bit curious how my welding with this cheap machine will turn out, and if my electricity is stable enough. 

[EVENKEEL]

Thanks for the replies, saw the photos of projects made with cheap machines stick weld and ones made with mig welders. Think I'll start with stick welding, as mig welding seems more for advanced welders. The Thais seem to weld by jabbing the stick instead of running a bead, which is how I was taught in high school.

 

I'm not a fan of online for tools, I'll buy from a box store. Sort of settled on a 6,000 bht model welder, going to get the mitre saw as well.

[EVENKEEL]

19 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Weld Pro inverter 12000B

I sort of settled on the Wel-d 300d about 6,100 bht

[sometimewoodworker]

34 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Think I'll start with stick welding, as mig welding seems more for advanced welders. The Thais seem to weld by jabbing the stick instead of running a bead, which is how I was taught in high school.

MIG is much easier to do than stick.
 

Unless you are going to use thick steel (probably 3mm+) and with stick you will probably find the joys of making holes

[EVENKEEL]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

MIG is much easier to do than stick.
 

Unless you are going to use thick steel (probably 3mm+) and with stick you will probably find the joys of making holes

I'll have another look see at the stores. 

[Yellowtail]

On 1/14/2022 at 12:35 PM, Hummin said:

Do you weld galvanized with your mig? 

 

I'm not so sure this 2mm galv steel here is appropriate to weld with mig. 

You can absolutely MIG weld galvanized here or anywhere. MIG welding galvanized HVAC production in thicknesses from 0.5-3.0mm is quite common. Contrary to popular belief it is also safe. 

 

CO2 is popular for welding GA and burns the GA off better than Ar or ArCO2 mixes

 

 

[DUNROAMIN]

22 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

MIG is much easier to do than stick.
 

Unless you are going to use thick steel (probably 3mm+) and with stick you will probably find the joys of making holes

Only problem with mig is majority of your welding must be done indoors.

[sometimewoodworker]

22 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Only problem with mig is majority of your welding must be done indoors.

That is only true if you are using a shielding gas. If you use flux core wire then there is no more problem welding outdoors than with SMAW. It does require the slag to be chipped off in the same way as SMAW

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is only true if you are using a shielding gas. If you use flux core wire then there is no more problem welding outdoors than with SMAW. It does require the slag to be chipped off in the same way as SMAW

Or unless you use a small wind-break. 

[bankruatsteve]

I'm not likely to convert to MIG at this point.  But just out of curiosity... I know the machine is more expensive but how much more are the coils (whatever) and gas?  I pay B150 for 2kg 0f electrodes.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

I'm not likely to convert to MIG at this point.  But just out of curiosity... I know the machine is more expensive but how much more are the coils (whatever) and gas?  I pay B150 for 2kg 0f electrodes.

For DIY stick is cheaper, for production MIG is much cheaper. 

 

 

[Adumbration]

On 1/15/2022 at 8:08 AM, EVENKEEL said:

Thanks for the replies, saw the photos of projects made with cheap machines stick weld and ones made with mig welders. Think I'll start with stick welding, as mig welding seems more for advanced welders. The Thais seem to weld by jabbing the stick instead of running a bead, which is how I was taught in high school.

 

I'm not a fan of online for tools, I'll buy from a box store. Sort of settled on a 6,000 bht model welder, going to get the mitre saw as well.

Mine cost me 1250 baht 4 years ago on shopee. Have welded literally hundreds of projects and (touch wood) it is still going strong.  A 6K spend for your first try in way over the top....

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Or unless you use a small wind-break. 

That works, though today there is no wind here so that works as well

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, Adumbration said:

Mine cost me 1250 baht 4 years ago on shopee. Have welded literally hundreds of projects and (touch wood) it is still going strong.  A 6K spend for your first try in way over the top....

Thank you for words of wisdom. You've got a good chance of being right but my experience of buying cheap doesn't always turn out well. We'll see.

[Yellowtail]

As Woody says, MIG is much easier to learn than stick, but the equipment is more expensive and more complex.  If you do a bit of welding you will go through the consumables which is not an issue, as long as you can get them.

 

The problem with many cheap MIG units is that you cannot get consumables for the guns, so if you go the MIG route route, be sure to buy something popular that you can get parts for. The upside to MIG is that you can watch a YouTube video and doing a decent job welding horizontal in an hour. 

 

The problem with cheap stick units is not really that they are more difficult to use (they are actually easier) but that they take a lot more practice to become proficient. The upside is that they use no consumables and that they are generally much more versatile than MIG welders. Additionally, once you learn how to weld stick, you can also weld MIG. A simple comparison might be  learning to drive "stick", and learning to drive automatic. If you learn to drive an automatic, your dead in the water if the car has a stick.  

 

A young person, or anyone that really wants to learn how to weld should learn with a stick unit. Someone that does not care that much about learning how to weld, but just wants to build/fix a few things might do better with MIG. 

 

You will get better bang-for-your-buck with stick. I would stay away from the cheap inverter units unless portability is a very big issue. 

 

When buying an auto-darkening helmet make sure you can get consumables for it as well. If you can't get a new lens cover for it, once the cover gets burned up the helmet is trash.  The response time is critical as well, otherwise  when you are doing a lot of tacking you can get flash-burns. 

 

Have fun!

 

 

 

 

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As Woody says, MIG is much easier to learn than stick, but the equipment is more expensive and more complex.  If you do a bit of welding you will go through the consumables which is not an issue, as long as you can get them.

 

The problem with many cheap MIG units is that you cannot get consumables for the guns, so if you go the MIG route route, be sure to buy something popular that you can get parts for. The upside to MIG is that you can watch a YouTube video and doing a decent job welding horizontal in an hour. 

 

The problem with cheap stick units is not really that they are more difficult to use (they are actually easier) but that they take a lot more practice to become proficient. The upside is that they use no consumables and that they are generally much more versatile than MIG welders. Additionally, once you learn how to weld stick, you can also weld MIG. A simple comparison might be  learning to drive "stick", and learning to drive automatic. If you learn to drive an automatic, your dead in the water if the car has a stick.  

 

A young person, or anyone that really wants to learn how to weld should learn with a stick unit. Someone that does not care that much about learning how to weld, but just wants to build/fix a few things might do better with MIG. 

 

You will get better bang-for-your-buck with stick. I would stay away from the cheap inverter units unless portability is a very big issue. 

 

When buying an auto-darkening helmet make sure you can get consumables for it as well. If you can't get a new lens cover for it, once the cover gets burned up the helmet is trash.  The response time is critical as well, otherwise  when you are doing a lot of tacking you can get flash-burns. 

 

Have fun!

 

 

 

 

One take a steady hand, and the other need a good eye to make sure you get a good solid welding seam, and not just a line on top of the metal

[jvs]

27 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As Woody says, MIG is much easier to learn than stick, but the equipment is more expensive and more complex.  If you do a bit of welding you will go through the consumables which is not an issue, as long as you can get them.

 

The problem with many cheap MIG units is that you cannot get consumables for the guns, so if you go the MIG route route, be sure to buy something popular that you can get parts for. The upside to MIG is that you can watch a YouTube video and doing a decent job welding horizontal in an hour. 

 

The problem with cheap stick units is not really that they are more difficult to use (they are actually easier) but that they take a lot more practice to become proficient. The upside is that they use no consumables and that they are generally much more versatile than MIG welders. Additionally, once you learn how to weld stick, you can also weld MIG. A simple comparison might be  learning to drive "stick", and learning to drive automatic. If you learn to drive an automatic, your dead in the water if the car has a stick.  

 

A young person, or anyone that really wants to learn how to weld should learn with a stick unit. Someone that does not care that much about learning how to weld, but just wants to build/fix a few things might do better with MIG. 

 

You will get better bang-for-your-buck with stick. I would stay away from the cheap inverter units unless portability is a very big issue. 

 

When buying an auto-darkening helmet make sure you can get consumables for it as well. If you can't get a new lens cover for it, once the cover gets burned up the helmet is trash.  The response time is critical as well, otherwise  when you are doing a lot of tacking you can get flash-burns. 

 

Have fun!

 

 

 

 

Yes MIG is the way to go but it takes a little getting used to getting the settings right.

I have 3 settings on mine and it took some learning to get them all right.I usually grind off the galvinis ing if i use that kind of steel.

I prefer to use clean steel and then have it galvanized(hot dipped)that will last a life time.

If toy are using a stick welder it is not only important to use the right size of rod but also

the right type.

2013 is a pretty all round rod for general work.

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

A young person, or anyone that really wants to learn how to weld should learn with a stick unit. Someone that does not care that much about learning how to weld, but just wants to build/fix a few things might do better with MIG. 

Correct, and if learning then some really thin rods make life easier, unless you are using really thick steel, they are easily available on Lazada.

[bbko]

2 hours ago, jvs said:

2013 is a pretty all round rod for general work.

2013? Typo?  I thought 6013 was be best for general work.

[jvs]

3 minutes ago, bbko said:

2013? Typo?  I thought 6013 was be best for general work.

Yes sorry typo.

[Adumbration]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

. You will get better bang-for-your-buck with stick. I would stay away from the cheap inverter units unless portability is a very big issue. 

I have done more stick welding than most over the years, and at work always in difficult, wet, dark and out of position situations.  My money is still on the cheap box.  I have had zero problems with it other than the short and poor quality leads that I already mentioned.  Mine has an LED display for voltage.

 

Some extra tens cents worth from me:

 

1. Mig and tigs are fine when they are working properly and you can easily buy new parts and consumables.  Same as a Ducati motorbike.  A cheap box will do for most round the house and farm applications.  It is akin to a Honda wave....

2. If you plug your welder in via an extension lead make sure you have a good quality one with minimum of 2.5mm wires.  Make sure that the lead is wired correctly with the Active, Neutral and Earth in correct position.  Same goes for the socket you plug into.

3. Be very careful with both your welding leads and any extension leads around your hot work or hot spent electrodes.  It is easy to burn through insulation without noticing and subsequently exposing yourself to electrocution risk.

4. Everyone has already mentioned the risk of hurting your eyes, but also take care to remember you can get serious burn on your skin also from the rays.  If you are welding all day, make sure you are well dressed....long sleeves and pants...regardless of how hot it is. And button your shirt all the way up because very vulnerable spot just on the front of your neck.

5. If you are doing roofing framework a cheap box can also be roped up closer to where you are working (an added advantage over a bigger more expensive machine).  And if you drop it and it breaks you are only out of pocket a couple of bucks.

6.  I also use my cheap box to restore vehicles.  NOTE that you can also buy 1.6mm Yawata rods on Shopee.

7.  If you use multiple extension leads, ALWAYS ensure they are wired correctly.  If you use a single lead and the neutral and earth are wired in reverse it will still work.  If you have another lead that has the active and neutral swapped it will still work.  If you plug those two leads together you will then have the active connected the to earth so that if you plug in a tool such as a grinder that has earth metal case that case is then live.  Pick it up and you are dead.  Of course an ELCB would save you....if you have one....

Edited January 16, 2022 by Adumbration

[JSon]

 

23 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Thank you for words of wisdom. You've got a good chance of being right but my experience of buying cheap doesn't always turn out well. We'll see.

Don't worry too much about it, I tend to agree, don't go too cheap, and I've definitley used v.cheap machine in the 1-2000 baht range which just failed after a few uses.

 

It massively depends on what you're doing though, and the thickness of the material you're using.

 

Need to look at what specs you need and buy accordingly.  

A 120A machine isn't going to do the same job as a 250A machine and their uses are different, same with duty cycle etc

 

You may have overspec-ed, but as long as you weren't ripped off (the specs of the machine match the value of the machine-ish), you can always consider selling it on, there's quite a big second hand welding machine market in Thailand too, a lot of Thai's buy second hand machines.  

[JSon]

On 1/16/2022 at 10:11 AM, bankruatsteve said:

I'm not likely to convert to MIG at this point.  But just out of curiosity... I know the machine is more expensive but how much more are the coils (whatever) and gas?  I pay B150 for 2kg 0f electrodes.

For MIG wires - you can expect between 60-80baht per Kg for your bog standard mild steel wires (replace E6013) Gas is sold usually in cylinders and how much you use is variable so harder to quantify.  Usually you buy a cylinder and refill so cost is usually upfront with the tank, then refill isn't so expensive (CO2).  

 

You can also go flux-core as many suggested, don't need gas necessarily, but much more expensive usually.  

[farmerjo]

https://www.automac.co.th/products/welder/เครื่องเชื่อมไฟฟ้า-automac-arc-300x

I just purchased this welding machine as my old one draws to much power.

Only ever used to adjusting an amp dial on a stick welder.

To the welders out there,is the hot start dial more for harder striking rods like low hydrogen or just as handy for older moist gp rods.

And what does the arc force dial achieve?

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by farmerjo

[BritManToo]

On 1/16/2022 at 10:48 AM, Adumbration said:

Mine cost me 1250 baht 4 years ago on shopee. Have welded literally hundreds of projects and (touch wood) it is still going strong.  A 6K spend for your first try in way over the top....

Agree,

You always get nonsense posts on this sort of thread suggesting expensive purchases.

Probably from people who have never owned a welder, and don't live in Thailand.

My 1,000+bht welder has worked perfectly from the day I bought it.

Edited February 3, 2022 by BritManToo

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

https://www.automac.co.th/products/welder/เครื่องเชื่อมไฟฟ้า-automac-arc-300x

I just purchased this welding machine as my old one draws to much power.

Only ever used to adjusting an amp dial on a stick welder.

To the welders out there,is the hot start dial more for harder striking rods like low hydrogen or just as handy for older moist gp rods.

And what does the arc force dial achieve?

 

I don't know about the "Hot Start Dial", but might contact your rod manufacturer about what settings they recommend.

 

Was something wrong with the old welder? All things the same, I don't think it likely a new welder is going to use significantly less power for a given weld than on old welder.  

[Yellowtail]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Agree,

You always get nonsense posts on this sort of thread suggesting expensive purchases.

Probably from people who have never owned a welder, and don't live in Thailand.

My 1,000+bht welder has worked perfectly from the day I bought it.

It depends on what you are doing. I have a cheap stick-welder at at home and it works great for what it is, but it is not going to weld continuously or anything very heavy. The leads and accessories are also generally cr*p. 

 

It's not really any different than buying any cheap tool. 

[farmerjo]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I don't know about the "Hot Start Dial", but might contact your rod manufacturer about what settings they recommend.

 

Was something wrong with the old welder? All things the same, I don't think it likely a new welder is going to use significantly less power for a given weld than on old welder.  

Thanks for the reply.

I did some googling and found what i was after with the dials,it's an inverter thing.

Old welder works ,its a non inverter heavy lug of a thing and any decent sort of a weld will trip the fuses or cause the AVR to delay power for a few seconds..

I'm hoping the inverter might be more efficient/stable.

Will find out as i have a dozer chassis i'm about to modify.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

It depends on what you are doing. I have a cheap stick-welder at at home and it works great for what it is, but it is not going to weld continuously or anything very heavy. The leads and accessories are also generally cr*p. 

 

It's not really any different than buying any cheap tool. 

I've got a house full of cheap tools.

All working with no problems ...... apart from cheap spanners which tend to round the heads.

[Daimler]

The only thing you should do is buy Low Hydrogen Rods as they are idiot proof.

We call them 16TC but in Thailand i am not sure.

If you can not weld box section with 2.6mm rods then your setup is wrong.

Welder for 35 years