7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

He's getting more sanctions than Russia, just for having an opinion, sad days

Personal responsibility is such a heavy burden.

 

phil definitely sees himself as the victim here.

 

 

 

Post making an effort to disguise an obscenity comment removed.

On 2/8/2022 at 7:56 AM, IAMHERE said:

Absolutely. Golf isn't a religion. There are no moral high horses in golf. It is all about the money, take what you can and keep your voting record a secret.

Couldn't agree more. If you are a good enough golfer to make that kind of money, then go for it. Who cares if you can't be a Ryder Cup captain, or can't play anymore PGA events, take the money while you can, set up yourself and family for life.

Money beats politics in this case.

"There are no moral high horses in golf. "

 

"Play the ball as it lies, play the course as you find it, and if you cannot do either, do what is fair."

 

 

For a sport which tirelessly claims the moral high ground as one in which players honestly abide by the rules, and call penalties on themselves, comparing money and morals seems strange?

 

No one is saying aging golfers and course designers shouldn't grab Saudi money. Go for it. I fully support and encourage their right to go where the money is. I'm sure sponsors will love the attention. 

 

 

When it comes to mickelson it's amazing how soon people forget the gambling, close-association with criminals, tax evasion, money-laundering, insider-trading, college-recruiting scandal, cheating and back-stabbing of others. And he always skates.

 

Bad-mouthing and back-stabbing the organization which allowed him, others and now a new generation of professional players, to amass personal wealth said to be in the $ 800 million range, takes a special kind of person.

 

 

 

 

Ah, makes sense Lefty was looking for some extra cash...his gambling "issues" have been rumored for years. He famously took half a mil on a Ravens Superbowl 28:1 parlay.

 

Report: Phil Mickelson’s gambling losses far greater than previously known

 

Phil Mickelson’s reputation as a gambler precedes him, but the extent of that gambling — and his losses — far exceeded public knowledge, according to reporting in a forthcoming Mickelson biography by golf writer Alan Shipnuck.

 

In 2016, the Securities and Exchange Commission alleged that Mickelson made nearly seven-figures on a stock tip from professional gambler Billy Walters, the proceeds of which Mickelson used to pay off a gambling debt to Walters. At the time, the extent of Mickelson’s debts were unknown, but reporting in the biography — attributed to a source with access to the SEC’s documents — revealed that in one four-year stretch, from 2010-14, Mickelson’s losses totaled more than $40 million, or roughly the equivalent of his estimated annual income during that period. 

 

https://golf.com/news/report-phil-mickelson-gambling-losses/

On 5/6/2022 at 7:55 AM, mtls2005 said:

https://golf.com/news/report-phil-mickelson-gambling-losses/

Yes read this earlier. 

Have you seen Westwood's "justification"......

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/i-have-to-do-whats-right-for-me-westwood-on-saudi-league-request

On 5/7/2022 at 4:14 PM, topt said:

Yes read this earlier. 

Have you seen Westwood's "justification"......

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/i-have-to-do-whats-right-for-me-westwood-on-saudi-league-request

He does have a pretty valid point re European Tour hosting events in Saudi Arabia..... No fan of Greg Norman at all, but the actions of the PGA/European Tour are driven by self interest and preserving their monopoly on the tour rather than any concern of SA rights, money etc.

6 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

He does have a pretty valid point re European Tour hosting events in Saudi Arabia..... No fan of Greg Norman at all, but the actions of the PGA/European Tour are driven by self interest and preserving their monopoly on the tour rather than any concern of SA rights, money etc.

Agreed.

2 minutes ago, topt said:

Agreed.

Thats not to say that the PGA particularly have not done an exceptional job of marketing the tour and making everyone very wealthy and giving a great product... When there is money to be made it will always attract competition. Should the players have huge loyalty to the PGA for what they have done?  hmm in a perfect world loyalty would be great, however i am far to cynical these days to believe in that. Next thing you know the PGA will probably sell their organization to the Saudi's.....

Not sure if the golfers have seen the photos of Jamal Khashoggi that were sent back to MbS after the killers did the crown prince's bidding in Turkey.

 

He was cut into pieces and laid out like an IKEA instruction sheet. Arms and legs removed and placed neatly along side. Also placed delicately was his penis.  His face had been peeled of its skin, but so carefully that it was laid out next to his torso kind of like the Buckminster Fuller world map that keeps everything in perspective so that Baffin Island doesn't appear larger than Brazil. Hey dustin johnson...show the pics to your kids!

 

Under MbS's 'royal decree', upwards of fifty people were beheaded in a single day earlier this year for such crimes as being gay, or protesting against MbS's rule. Yes, some were accused murderers and rapists, but police in Saudi use the sort of tactics that could get a confession of sodomy out of a 95 year old....woman.

 

Recently released intel noted that the saudi govt had direct involvement in 9-11. Of course, the govt there has long funded sunni terror groups like al Qaeda and ISIS, while lambasting across-the Persian-Arabian Gulf (depends on which side you're on) neighbor Iran for funding shi'a terror groups.

 

But hey, I understand. I mean, a golfer with a $200 million net worth, but nearing the end of his career, has to take care of his family, since it's all about the 'chillen'. And how else is phil going to make up for his $40 million gambling losses?

 

And aren't we all equally guilty of hypocrisy? Aren't we all jared kushners, who despite being the world's worst trader (top ticked the Manhattan RE market in 2008 with his purchase of 666 5th Ave, a building with a market value of $700 million and debt of $1.4 billion), got $2 billion in saudi money to 'manage', which is kind of like the billion in refinancing of 666 5th he got just before a balloon payment was due (and he was a 'senior adviser to the then-POTUS). No doubt that financing from Qatar had absolutely nothing to do with the sanctions Qatar was under at the time...but were coincidentally removed days after kushner's refinancing went through. Is that influence peddling or is it just 'taking care of his family'?

 

Yea, we're all equally guilty, but who among us can hit a 4 iron 220?

 

Sportswashing works. Somebody ought to tell little vladdy, because at the moment his reputation is a bit tarnished by that de-Nazification thing he's doing in places like Bucha.

 

There ain't no such thing as the moral high ground when we're all treading water in a sewer.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

 

 

 

There ain't no such thing as the moral high ground when we're all treading water in a sewer.

 

 

My only concern is what happens if they hold a tournament in saudi, and some 'Tour Wife' is shopping in the souk and a Mutawwa guy (Official Name: The Committee for the Preservation of Virtue and Elimination of Vice) comes up with his stick and womps her ankles for being too exposed?

 

Or one of the tour player's kids gets his teddy bear seized by Customs at the airport because 'depictions of living things are haram and it is possible even a teddy bear has a soul, so that would demand that the golfer secure a Visa for the toy'.

On 5/7/2022 at 4:14 PM, topt said:

Have you seen Westwood's "justification"......

Waiting to see how UPS, Ping and iCaptial handle any blow-back.

 

Maybe the leading supplier of bone-saws could sponsor him.

 

 

Again, I fully support aged golfers chasing any money they can. Saudi, Russian, heck have Kim Jong-Un host a tournament. He's rumored to be an excellent golfer.

 

 

Take the money, why not.

It appears that most of those going for the big bucks can't hack it on the main tours anymore.

Whether or not the fans want to see also rans playing  when they can watch those that can really do it is a different matter.

Time will tell.

6 hours ago, Walker88 said:

My only concern is what happens if they hold a tournament in saudi, and some 'Tour Wife' is shopping in the souk and a Mutawwa guy (Official Name: The Committee for the Preservation of Virtue and Elimination of Vice) comes up with his stick and womps her ankles for being too exposed?

 

Or one of the tour player's kids gets his teddy bear seized by Customs at the airport because 'depictions of living things are haram and it is possible even a teddy bear has a soul, so that would demand that the golfer secure a Visa for the toy'.

Actually, I would hope that these things happen so tour players can see what's really going on.  But I'll bet these tour family members will be exempt and treated like VIPs.  They won't even know what normal people have to deal with.  Then they'll go back home and say "Saudi Arabia is just like being home!"

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Whether or not the fans want to see also rans playing  when they can watch those that can really do it is a different matter.

Time will tell.

I read an article last week about the advertised ticket prices for the first event in UK. The article was suggesting they were pretty steep - I stress I don't really have a reference to compare. However if so I am not sure many will be paying that to go and see Westwood and a few others.

 

This was not the article I saw but quotes some prices -

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/ticket-prices-sale-first-liv-golf-event-and-they-are-not-cheap

Looks like Lefty will not be defending his PGA Championship this week.

 

 

Jack Nicklaus Says He Rejected 'Excess Of' $100M to Represent Saudi Golf League

 

Jack Nicklaus says he was originally offered more than $100 million to help lead the LIV Golf Invitational Series.

 

"I was offered something in excess of $100 million by the Saudis, to do the job probably similar to the one that Greg is doing," Nicklaus told Michael Bamberger of The Fire Pit Collective. "I turned it down. Once verbally, once in writing. I said, 'Guys, I have to stay with the PGA Tour. I helped start the PGA Tour.'"

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10035963-jack-nicklaus-says-he-rejected-excess-of-100m-to-represent-saudi-golf-league

 

 

In related news...

 

Jack Nicklaus to build his first golf course in Saudi Arabia at Qiddiya

 

Jack Nicklaus has signed on to build his first Signature course in Saudi Arabia, located about 40 minutes from the Saudi capital of Riyadh.

 

Nicklaus and his eponymous design company are creating the course, which will be framed by the Tuwaiq Mountain range, for a private club within a residential community in the Qiddiya development. Nicklaus said he has been involved in the planning and expects to break ground this year.

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/02/02/jack-nicklaus-golf-course-saudi-arabia-qiddiya/

 

 

The question is what is expected in return.  Do they have to sing he praises of the donating country, convert to Islam, denounce Israel or whatever country is at odds with the donor at the moment, or make a public statement like "of course I always travel with a bone saw in my luggage, who doesn't?"  If it's just a matter of showing up and playing your sport, well then  . . ..

 

 

 

Rumors are the Saudis want to drop Greg Norman from LIV Golf.

 

Obviously better than getting dismembered.

 

But since Nicklaus refused to take his place they may be stuck with Norman?

 

Maybe Gary Player and his son? They make a great pair. Not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see Phil finally overcame his "principals" and took the the money from the Saudis. 

Can't blame a few of the old golfers tying to feather their nest but then I thought the senior tour was for that?

3 hours ago, Thailand said:

I see Phil finally overcame his "principals" and took the the money from the Saudis. 

Can't blame a few of the old golfers tying to feather their nest but then I thought the senior tour was for that?

Glad Phil is in it, starts Thurs, field is worth watching now, on youtube, Facebook and Centurion website

3 hours ago, Thailand said:

I see Phil finally overcame his "principals" and took the the money from the Saudis. 

Can't blame a few of the old golfers tying to feather their nest but then I thought the senior tour was for that?

Phil did find success on the Senior Tour....but apparently the money wasn't as good.  These other guys....Sergio, Westwood, Poulter do fit that description.  But guys like DJ, Na....surprising.  Just read that Tiger was offered huge money but turned it down.  The burning question is whether these guys that do play will in fact face lifetime bans from the PGA. 

Saudi is a lovely country. A real party scene. Lots of very holy men, and morally righteous people. Real believers and supporters of women, and their rights. 

 

And a serial killing, despot ruler. Sure, why not support them? 

14 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Saudi is a lovely country. A real party scene. Lots of very holy men, and morally righteous people. Real believers and supporters of women, and their rights. 

 

And a serial killing, despot ruler. Sure, why not support them? 

I doubt Dustin Johnson would know anything about that

18 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I doubt Dustin Johnson would know anything about that

Perhaps somebody should tell him it might be a good idea not to take any drugs when he plays in Saudi, but who knows, special dispensation for LIV-ers?

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

Perhaps somebody should tell him it might be a good idea not to take any drugs when he plays in Saudi, but who knows, special dispensation for LIV-ers?

Out of the 8 tournaments on the LIV schedule, only one will be in Saudi Arabia and not until 14 Oct.  One will actually be in Bangkok on 7 Oct.

Don't you just wish these guys taking up the LIV millions would simply say it like it is.

 

"I am doing it purely and simply for the money!"

Ratchanon Chantananuwat

 

 

I am going to college, but I have signed up for LIV ????

4 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Don't you just wish these guys taking up the LIV millions would simply say it like it is.

 

"I am doing it purely and simply for the money!"

No need to point out the obvious.  Good on them, and get as much as you can.  

You will never stop greed and that overrides any and all principles.

10 minutes ago, Excel said:

You will never stop greed and that overrides any and all principles.

If we based on 'income' on principles, we'd all starve.   I worked for 4 airlines, over 17 yr period.  Do you think I cared about my employers carbon footprint.

 

I invested in 'gay' subscription TV stock, before rainbows went mainstream.  Christian brother found it, and was hesitant ... why, let's make money.   Bush 2 became president, and I move my investments to OIl  ... made a mint on ignoring any principles with that industry.

 

People holiday internationally ... no principles with their carbon footprint there, if you believe that silliness.   What country has any principles, that they should take money from.   I can't think of 1.

 

What industry did you work in, that you rode your bicycle to.   Did you visit Thailand by sailboat ?