My Thai step-daughter has been given the ultimatum 40% wage cut or unemployment.

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Started working for them last year after graduating on 18K/month, now told it will be reduced to 11k/month (same cuts for all staff).

My wife's sons work in the service industry from 5pm to 11pm.

 

They started on 200 baht per night (6 hours), all tips are theirs and they can make as much as they earn, however when the government stopped alcohol being served in restaurants after 9pm, business went downhill and the owner, rather than lay staff off, provided them all with the option of taking alternative days on a monthly roster where everyone gets to work the busier nights, Friday/Saturday where they can all get the big tips.

 

So they are down to 3 nights a week, what we have done is helped them out by paying their rent/electricity/water until things pick up again, e.g. don't want to spoil them, they also have the option of coming home, but want to stand on their own, so if the employer of your daughter is taking a hit, she is better off taking a hit as well until things pick up, as there are a lot of unemployed people out there, so something is better than nothing, and I understand all about the principal thing, but when owners are taking the hit, everyone has got to keep the boat afloat so to speak until they get the water all out and the seas are all smooth sailing again.

 

It's tough in the current environment, I am sure.

[RichardColeman]

Should agree to it, but insist on attending 40% less and doing 40% less work !

[2 is 1]

All Thais know all sht can happen and only solid job is to be Government officer. Almost never get fired (if you are not doing something really stupid) and salary increase 2 times/year. Reason almost  all parents in Isaan area want they kids try to study to be officers. 

[bunnydrops]

Don't agree to anything, don't sign anything. Put the ball in the companies court. If laid off, had wages reduced, or fired, find out what you can do legally about it. Let the company have to do the explaining.

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, dj230 said:

I hate to say this but “higher” education is not really what it used to be. I am fairly young (mid 20’s) and I didn’t go to university, well I did for a year and dropped out. I didn’t see the value in it and I was seeing people graduate with 0 jobs because they decided to study English, social sciences or liberal arts. Although I was studying computer science which had a fairly good post graduate career path, I decided to start a business instead and use the tuition funds to start it. 
 

It really depends what degree / program she choose to do, university programs with co-op / internships are usually better at creating a career.  
 

it’s a contrarian statement but unless you learn something valuable that can’t be done by others for cheaper, you have wasted most of your money going to university or “higher education”. 

 

I’m not very well versed in the education system but from briefly talking to people experiencing it right now, the universities other than top government universities seem like a complete money grab. Especially private universities, the days of buying a degree or learning nothing in university and getting a piece of paper to get a job are long over. 

just an example, rangsit university has degrees that don’t even require a minimum gpa average to graduate. I spoke to students at university of bangkok, 1 exam, no grades otherwise for assignments and no midterms. Crazy. 

 

The university education is the backbone of the modern civilization. One can't compare degrees in medicine or engineering with degrees in basket weaving.

[sanuk711]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My personal opinion is the poop is about to hit the fan generally in the Thai economy.

 

I've told her to leave and move back home, I'll feed her.

What do you all think?

I think its a bit of a large assumption to take--- that the Thai economy is in trouble because your Daughters employer seeks to cut his staff's wages.

 

Its a callous move on their behalf, but I dont know ---without any details-- if that particular company is in dire straights of going under--- or is it just taking advantage of its employees.

 

I hope your daughter finds suitable employment--- I have 3 girls.. late 20s early 30s all done the uni stint , at the moment OK but world wide this is a rough time.

Edited February 12, 2022 by sanuk711

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Airalee said:

Having a (relatively useless) BS in Economics, this is always something I have thought about.  Especially since the push over the last 2 decades for everybody to have a college/university degree has trapped so many in huge amounts of debt (especially in the US).

 

6 years of higher education (additional cost including tuition, books, dorm (if living away from home)) compared to living at home and working for Tesco for that 9k/month and saving every penny plus saving whatever was spent on the degree above and beyond basic sunk costs (food, clothes, toiletries, etc)…who wins?

 

I believe that with very few exceptions (STEM), that in the end, with the 6 additional years of compounding (depending on investment returns of the saved money), the person who went right into the workforce as early as possible will come out ahead (financially) of the person who chose the higher education route.

It depends on what the university degree is in. I haven't met any poor doctors or accountants.

Science can be hit or miss, it really boils down to what is the hot topic of the decade. I suspect vaccine biochemists and immunologists are sought after presently.

[BritManToo]

47 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It depends on what the university degree is in. I haven't met any poor doctors or accountants.

Science can be hit or miss, it really boils down to what is the hot topic of the decade. I suspect vaccine biochemists and immunologists are sought after presently.

There's very little money to be made in science, you can earn a lot more in finance/banking/management/entertainment.

 

Off topic,

But the average Thai that goes to University will be age 30 before they break even with a Thai that starts work for Tesco on 9k/month at age 16.

 

Tesco worker,

Earnings, 9k x12 x6 years = 648Kbht by age 22.

University student,

fees 32k x 4 years = -128Kbht by age 22 (cheapest university fees)

I'll forget food/accommodation/other educational expenses for ease of calculation.

 

So at age 22 the university graduate is already at least 776Kbht behind the Tesco worker.

And would need to earn at least 8k/month more than the Tesco for the next 8 years just to break even.

[BKKBike09]

Look up the company financials.

 

https://datawarehouse.dbd.go.th

 

Maybe the business is going under. If it goes under then the staff will get nothing. Maybe the owner(s) are trying to do the right thing by staff and keep them employed and in the SS system, even if it means cutting salaries. Or maybe they're just trying it on. 11K is risible. Would probably make more as a Grab driver.

 

Are management also taking cuts? 

 

 

 

 

[mommysboy]

Not an isolated case methinks.  

[dj230]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

The university education is the backbone of the modern civilization. One can't compare degrees in medicine or engineering with degrees in basket weaving.

You'd be surprised how many people get degrees in things like "basket weaving" and are shocked to find out they can't find a job.

[dj230]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

There's very little money to be made in science, you can earn a lot more in finance/banking/management/entertainment.

 

Off topic,

But the average Thai that goes to University will be age 30 before they break even with a Thai that starts work for Tesco on 9k/month at age 16.

 

Tesco worker,

Earnings, 9k x12 x6 years = 648Kbht by age 22.

University student,

fees 32k x 4 years = -128Kbht by age 22 (cheapest university fees)

I'll forget food/accommodation/other educational expenses for ease of calculation.

 

So at age 22 the university graduate is already at least 776Kbht behind the Tesco worker.

And would need to earn at least 8k/month more than the Tesco for the next 8 years just to break even.

There's probably a very select few people that make it in any entertainment industry, I would say you can make good money in science but you probably need a phd, doctors/dentists/computer scientists/surgeons/scientific research, etc. 

[T Lee]

I spent the last 6 years of my career as a recruiter, and my advice is to use the "down time" if it comes to that to add to her skill sets.  Regardless of her focus at school (accounting? finance? customer service?) she could pick up additional skills that might set her apart from other job seekers.  I've many times seen, for example, someone who came in, say, as a temp to help out in a rush situation which wasn't supposed to last long, but then they turned out to be the only person able to get that darned printer to work.  Sometimes it wouldn't amount to winning a position, but when the boss gets a call from his golf buddy asking if he knows anyone with energy and a great attitude, sometimes "a miracle happens".

 

It is also good medicine to make efforts even if the prospects are indeed dark. Showing  a positive attitude and determination doesn't always suffice....but sometimes it can result in a little miracle.

 

Good luck, I know it's not easy. All the best to her.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, T Lee said:

she could pick up additional skills that might set her apart from other job seekers.

Being a native English and Thai speaker is probably enough.

[steven100]

15 hours ago, geisha said:

Lots of employers tried to pull a fast one on staff during Covid

I doubt it's  ' pull a fast one '  ..........    these companies were in financial trouble so it's either close down and everyone loses out or take a cut until things improve.    ??

[cyril sneer]

does the labour office still help if said company has given money under the table?

[ikke1959]

accept it and start looking for another job.. Other possibilities are not done here in Thailand. In a western country employees would organize together and going on strike, but in Thailand it is never done..So keep an income and change as soon as possible

[sanmyintmaung]

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

No.. she should not quit. IF the company fires her, the owe her 108,000 baht severance (6 years of work, x 1 month for each year worked). 

 

The company obviously want her to quit so they can avoid paying severance, or take the pay cut so they can save money. None of this is the employee’s problem, they are on an incredibly low wage already. 

 

 

In addition to severance pay if the company fires her, she can also get unemployment benefit from social security office at the rate of 50% of her last salary for up to 6 months.

Edited February 13, 2022 by sanmyintmaung

[richard_smith237]

8 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

does the labour office still help if said company has given money under the table?

The labor office seems to be one of these ministries that is not corrupt.... which seems very strange for Thailand. 

 

 

[Opossum]

...

...I've told her to leave and move back home, I'll feed her.

...

 

You surely are a good Stepfather and you are angry because of the situation. But there are things in life, you can not learn at Universities and life is bareley fair. A university degree doesn't grant anything. I was told by my mom, that I have to work twice as hard as others.... I have university degree and I always worked very hard just to learn the lessons in life, that there are people who don't have a university degree and some didn't seem to work at all, were so much more sucessfully than me - some of them were doing nothing else than networking all the day long... sometimes a brown nose is also very helpful for a career...

 

But the real lesson I have learnt was, that if you get used to hard work, you will always find work and can survice somehow, while people with or without a university degree who are not willing to work are useless, because they always depend on the goodwill of others.

 

I wish your step-daugther all the best and that she will make the right choice.

 

 

 

[Pravda]

Yea.... Thanks for that post.

 

As I write in another thread with that proposed minimum wage increase a lot of factories will be struggling.

 

I will come back to this thread in about 6 months when my wife gets a PR and resigns from the company. I have some knowledge of factories operating in Thailand. It's a wild west. As a mentioned before wife works for a Japanese company supplying parts to major manufacturers in Thailand mainly the auto industry. The margins are ridiculously low. The japanese are only here to enjoy thanaya plaza and dump all the work to a few Thai employees like my wife. The company will likely go under when she leaves as she is responsible for closing 99% of the sales. Can't wait. Back in 6 months 

 

[Adumbration]

The primary objective of the elite is to send as many workaday Thais to the wall so that they can buy their land.  When you accept this as fact you will understand why so many seemingly stupid decisions are made by those in power.

 

Lock downs were not to protect the masses.  They were to impoverish those from the south, and north who worked in tourism.  As already reported in some other threads the building stores in the north east are now jammed packed with customers driving luxury vehicles with Bangkok plates.  They are hoovering up the land that has to be sold by the people that have had no income for over two years.

 

The proposed wage increase to 500 baht is not designed to help Thai workers.  They will lose their jobs (like your daughter) to be replaced by cheap Burmese and Khmer labor.  All part of the plan, more workaday Thai unemployment and thus more land borrowed against and put up for sale.

 

Yes...things are going to much worse in the near future...but not for the elite and their cronies...just for the working class families that are desperately trying to hold on to their chanotes.

 

 

 

[josephbloggs]

On 2/12/2022 at 4:48 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Take the pay cut and get looking for a new job,

Not sure why so many people advise this.

There is no good ending.  Many Thai companies will ask you to accept a lower salary and sign a revised contract to "help out" then they will make you redundant a little later.  Severance pay will be calculated on the lower salary.  You'll never go back to the higher salary, so accepting this is silly as the writing is already on the wall.  Just let them make you redundant and you get what you are entitled to. 

 

Also a lot of misinformation in this thread too - if you have been employed more than a year (but less than three) you are entitled to three months' salary, plus you also get "notification pay" which could be up to two months depending on when they issue the termination advice.  If she agrees to 11k and they later let her go she will essentially be getting 38% less severance pay than she would have had she refused and this is what they are counting on (in my opinion).  

So my advice is clear: it is unfortunate but she should not agree as they can not force this on her.  She'll probably ultimately be made redundant either way so at least make sure she gets what she is entitled to.  And like others have said the labour laws here are strong so she will win (and yes, foreigners also have equal protection).

Many years ago I worked for a large Thai company.  They let a lot of people go.  I - as management - was kept although they asked me to sign a new contract with 50% salary reduction (but they would make that up with commission and bonuses, yeah right).   I knew what was going on but had no choice as my visa was dependent on the job.  Sure enough three months later they let me go and my severance was based on the 50% reduced salary.  Cold and calculated.  Luckily I ended up with another job fairly quickly so in hindsight I should have refused the reduction and let them pay me off - but at the time I was too worried about my visa.

So refuse it and start looking for another job.  Do not accept it and start looking for another job as she would only be doing herself short.
 

[connda]

At 11K per month it's a worker's market.  There are plenty of jobs in that range.  If you're going to work for a company that will cut your low wages by 40%?  It's time to move on to a job that may pay the same but which has upward mobility and whose owners aren't jerks..  Her company just signaled that there is no upwards mobility and they don't give a damn about their employees - only money.  Time to move on.....

[connda]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:58 PM, dj230 said:

I hate to say this but “higher” education is not really what it used to be. I am fairly young (mid 20’s) and I didn’t go to university, well I did for a year and dropped out. I didn’t see the value in it and I was seeing people graduate with 0 jobs because they decided to study English, social sciences or liberal arts. Although I was studying computer science which had a fairly good post graduate career path, I decided to start a business instead and use the tuition funds to start it. 
 

It really depends what degree / program she choose to do, university programs with co-op / internships are usually better at creating a career.  
 

it’s a contrarian statement but unless you learn something valuable that can’t be done by others for cheaper, you have wasted most of your money going to university or “higher education”. 

 

I’m not very well versed in the education system but from briefly talking to people experiencing it right now, the universities other than top government universities seem like a complete money grab. Especially private universities, the days of buying a degree or learning nothing in university and getting a piece of paper to get a job are long over. 

just an example, rangsit university has degrees that don’t even require a minimum gpa average to graduate. I spoke to students at university of bangkok, 1 exam, no grades otherwise for assignments and no midterms. Crazy. 

 

Send her back to trade school and learn to fix cars.  Every time I go by a local repair shop their business is just gang-busters.
I wouldn't recommend university to kids nowadays.  Get a trade.  Fixing cars ain't going out of business as the economy gets worst. 

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, connda said:

Send her back to trade school and learn to fix cars.  Every time I go by a local repair shop their business is just gang-busters.

I'd prefer her to marry an old white guy and get paid 5M sinsot.

But nobody listens to my advice.

 

[connda]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:46 PM, Lacessit said:

Take the pay cut, and immediately start looking for better jobs with better pay.

And take Dad up on his offer for room and board until she has her feet back under her.  She has a uni degree and experience.  She can find a job if she is motivated and I'm sure she is. 
Every job is a chance to accrue experience.  This situation is a chance to accrue experience also. 
Refuse the pay cut and see what their next move is.  If it doesn't come with severance pay - go the the Ministry of Labor and file a complaint.  Make the employer stay within the law and use the law as leverage.  This is a learning experience too.

[connda]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I'd prefer her to marry an old white guy and get paid 5M sinsot.

But nobody listens to my advice.

 

You're on to something there!  <laughs>

"No lovey,  no kissy until Dad gets some sinsot bling!"

 

[The Hammer2021]

Very sad to hear if this all too common injustice but she should hang on and look for a better job. Hanging around the house doing nothing is not the best option

[dj230]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Send her back to trade school and learn to fix cars.  Every time I go by a local repair shop their business is just gang-busters.
I wouldn't recommend university to kids nowadays.  Get a trade.  Fixing cars ain't going out of business as the economy gets worst. 

Funny story, I actually wanted to become a mechanic, my parent's wouldn't let me and made me go to university, mathematically the amount of money you can make becoming a mechanic in Toronto is quite good, starting around $20,000-$30,000 while still in high school, tops out around $100,000 after 5 years or so in the business, starting in high school you can make good money compared to going to University.

 

That being said, I actually did go to college to study and become a mechanic, this was in 2014 after I dropped out of university. The professors actually started to talk about electric vehicles and how we would be impacted said 10-20 years from now we'd all be out of work as the cars would be fixed completely differently. I decided it wasn't worth my time after that and dropped out here as well. 

 

I don't know if I'd become a mechanic in Thailand though, probably much lower pay and most people drive asian cars which don't get issues like American/european cars. I remember the professor making a joke about the worst dealerships you can work at is toyota/honda since you'd just do oil changes all day since nothing breaks and make no money.