Building a new house in Isaan

[sezze]

Houses crack because they save on the foundations . If the foundation is strong , the building does not move , and the walls do not crack . And the most worse thing is , you do only save a few k by the weaker foundation . Many Thai houses in villages are build to 100k or less , so a few k does matter . On a 1 mill house , the few k is nothing but saves a lot of worries after .

[KhaoYai]

11 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

That is an average house. Not a luxury house by any means

You have misunderstood.  I can't speak for the US but certainly in my area of the UK, luxury homes are in the main, built using traditional methods.  Dry lining systems, stud walls etc. etc. are used in run of the mill housing projects and mid range developments.

[KhaoYai]

11 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

I would hope a person would have enough sense to build a structurally sound house that didn't crack in any location?

Walls crack for a variety of reasons - poor foundations being the main reason for major cracks. However, cracks are also caused other things such as; settlement, using materials that dry at different speeds, heat up and cool down at different rates, vibration, even traffic. I guarantee you that a run of the mill crack (other than foundational) that appears in an internal concrete wall is far easier to permanently repair than a crack in a drywall system - they regularly re-appear.

 

But you have brought up an important subject - foundations.  Most Thai builders are very good at building foundations but unless you can find decent clay (rare in Thailand), you will always run the risk of subsidence and cracking.  It doesn't matter how substantial your foundations are, if they are all individual pads, serving one concrete post each, there is a substantial risk of settlement differential.  All foundations shrink and settle but individual pads may not do so at the same rate and when those rates differ, you will get cracking - concrete blocks are not flexible.  Individual pads are also susceptible to movement caused by major changes in weather patterns (think climate change).

 

Personally, if I was building a new house in Thailand, I would build it on a concrete raft foundation rather than the individual pads that the majority of houses seem to be built on. The OP might want to take account of that in his plans.

[Lacessit]

13 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

You ever wonder why Thai houses move and crack?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Earthquakes are a good reason in Chiang Rai.

[sezze]

32 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Walls crack for a variety of reasons - poor foundations being the main reason for major cracks. However, cracks are also caused other things such as; settlement, using materials that dry at different speeds, heat up and cool down at different rates, vibration, even traffic. I guarantee you that a run of the mill crack (other than foundational) that appears in an internal concrete wall is far easier to permanently repair than a crack in a drywall system - they regularly re-appear.

 

But you have brought up an important subject - foundations.  Most Thai builders are very good at building foundations but unless you can find decent clay (rare in Thailand), you will always run the risk of subsidence and cracking.  It doesn't matter how substantial your foundations are, if they are all individual pads, serving one concrete post each, there is a substantial risk of settlement differential.  All foundations shrink and settle but individual pads may not do so at the same rate and when those rates differ, you will get cracking - concrete blocks are not flexible.  Individual pads are also susceptible to movement caused by major changes in weather patterns (think climate change).

 

Personally, if I was building a new house in Thailand, I would build it on a concrete raft foundation rather than the individual pads that the majority of houses seem to be built on. The OP might want to take account of that in his plans.

What i've seen , they do not bring everything down to stable ground . So that leave deep poles , but they only used in BKK area , where the ground is really unstable .Next is make sure the slab is thick enough and the slabs are big/strong enough all attached to eachother . If that is the case , all poles will remain in place and the walls will not crack , even if the soil might move . the poles will remain straight , 100% like the same day they are placed .

 

[Encid]

17 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You don't mention the roof insulation, get the best R-factor encapsulated insulation blankets you can afford. Don't mess with PU spray insulation, it's a potential death trap.

I am still trying to figure out the roof/ceiling insulation.

The design is a modern style two story house with a flat concrete roof supporting a steel sloping roof above to collect rain water and also to mount the future solar panels on.

There will be a gap between the concrete and the steel roof which will be insulated by the heat reflector sheeting and ventilated under the eaves.

I am also considering putting a layer of insulation batts on the top of the ceiling (under the concrete roof) to help conserve cool air inside.

[Neeranam]

Remember it's very hard to sell a house in Isarn, even in prime areas. I'm moving after 18 years in Khon Kaen, much better places to live in Thailand. 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Encid said:

I am still trying to figure out the roof/ceiling insulation.

The design is a modern style two story house with a flat concrete root supporting a steel sloping roof above to collect rain water and also to mount the future solar panel on.

There will be a gap between the concrete and the steel roof which will be insulated by the heat reflector sheeting and ventilated under the eaves.

I am also considering putting a layer of insulation batts on the top of the ceiling (under the concrete roof) to help conserve cool air inside.

We used +37 & +38 for ceiling insulation on present build.  Though think the insulation is overkill for you, since having flat concrete roof and steel roof covering that.

 

Previous house had flat concrete roof, shaded by raised steel roof, which provide shade most of day, and good coverage, since rectangular house and built east to west lengthwise.  Ceiling stayed cool all year, not radiating any ambient heat from the outside.  Concrete roof was quite thick, not just slabs with thin concrete coating, but thick & waterproofed, since 'open', as designed for 2nd story if needed.

 

 

 

[Encid]

20 hours ago, Olav Seglem said:

Check on goverment electric supply.

Internet.

The nearest PEA poles are 800 metres away.

Fiber optic internet cable is also 800m away.

 

20 hours ago, Olav Seglem said:

Government water supply-regularity.

Road access.

There is no government water supply within 1km or more.

The land has direct access to a concrete government road.

 

20 hours ago, Olav Seglem said:

Drilling  for water-ironized or salt ?

The water table is about 1m underground and the water quality is very good.

The farm has a pond on it that never runs dry, even during drought conditions. It is well stocked with fish.

Some of the locals have drilled wells on their properties and although the water is not suitable for drinking without filtration, it is soft enough to produce a lather with soap whilst showering/bathing.

I am considering using filtered rainwater runoff from the flat sloping roof to provide our primary water supply for washing clothes/bathing etc. and use the bore water as a backup in case of drought conditions.

We will buy bottled water (the 20L bottles) for drinking and cooking.

 

20 hours ago, Olav Seglem said:

Your security- register right to stay on property as long as you live ???

The chanote is in my father-in-law's name. and he has already bequeathed 1 rai where we want to build to his daughter, my wife of 16 years now.

We are building a future not only for us, but for him and his family too... the future benefits of solar powered water supply for gardening and farming purposes will mean that he can harvest rice more than once a year, and perhaps other crops may be considered.

 

We also plan to have a garden... complete with fruit trees and vegetables, herbs etc.

We won't be completely self-sufficient, but we might be able to produce enough to trade with others in a sort of "sufficiency economy" fashion.

 

At least... that is the dream!

 

[farmerjo]

I think the labour determines the build.

If using village labour forget the aac blocks unless they can show you some of their work from the past.

You should do a list of sundries for the build otherwise they will use what they can find,things like stabilizers for doors and windows and boards for the cement work.

Large size tiles on the floor and you will end up with softfoot.

[Encid]

17 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Build a house using construction methods the contractor knows.

Nothing wrong with post and beam with rendered brick walls.

That is exactly the type of design I am using.

There is a local builder in the area who built my wife's cousin's house as well as 3 other houses in the village.

He knows his stuff and has a high quality finish (by Isaan standards).

All his customer are very happy with his work.

 

17 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Frankly, building on your wife's land, close to her family, is in my opinion a mistake. If (God forbid) things don't work out, the house is unsalable.

My wife and I have been married for more than 16 years, and we regularly make trips to the village to stay with the in-laws. They also make regular trips down to stay with us in Najomtien, particularly during school holidays when the kids can come visit and play in our pool too. We are friends, and we respect each other.

 

I know that there will be frustrations from time to time (mainly due to language and cultural differences), but I see this as an investment for my retirement... lots of exciting projects to do and plenty of land to do it on!

 

I am not considering a future sale of the house at all... it will be inherited when we're gone by my wife's niece as we do not have any children of our own.

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Remember it's very hard to sell a house in Isarn, even in prime areas. I'm moving after 18 years in Khon Kaen, much better places to live in Thailand. 

Depends, location location location.  Now, a buyer's market everywhere.

 

1st house sold, 2008 at Udon Thani sold 1 day before even listing, via local forum, as posted and talked about a few months before listing.  No bites, so 'listed' at realtor, and before he actually put it on his site, someone (retired farang) offered to buy.

 

2nd house, sold Aug 2020, did take a while, 3 yrs, but, bit further out of town, and as photo above, unique design, on 2 rai, so not exactly cheap, and, main kicker, across from a wat w/crematorium, so Thai superstitions didn't help.  Since out of town, only a retired person would buy it anyway.  Definitely a hard sell.

[Encid]

19 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

A lot is made of drywall systems - I'm not a fan.

 

They may be a bit cheaper to construct initially but I don't think the saving is worth the downside.  Trying to fix things to them is difficult - sure you may know what you want to fix to them now and strengthen those areas but things change over the years - I guarantee that at some point you'll regret the decision.

The following diagram is from the SCG Smartboard installation manual:

 

 

I would have thought that galvanized stiffeners every 600mm would provide enough strength to adequately support the drywall.

Other fixtures like power sockets could also be mounted on the stiffeners so they aren't supported by the drywall alone.

It is also supposed to be water resistant, fire resistant, termite proof, has a high durability and impact strength and not subject to shrinkage.

 

 

Has anyone else had any experience (good or bad) with this product?

 

[Encid]

5 hours ago, sezze said:

If you do go with the drywall , i suggest anything thicker , so not the 8mm but 12mm .

Thank you... a good suggestion!

[Encid]

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Personally, if I was building a new house in Thailand, I would build it on a concrete raft foundation rather than the individual pads that the majority of houses seem to be built on. The OP might want to take account of that in his plans.

The current design is an elevated reinforced concrete (RC) floor with horizontal beams supporting/integrated with the slab. The beams will be supported by RC columns which in turn will be supported by RC piles. We have not determined the depth of the piles yet, but will probably be limited to the maximum depth that the drilling company can drill. Ground floor level is planned to be approx 1 metre above finished grade level. The soil is "sticky land" about a metre down, therefore a clay base.

[Encid]

49 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

We used +37 & +38 for ceiling insulation on present build.  Though think the insulation is overkill for you, since having flat concrete roof and steel roof covering that.

I was thinking more of keeping the cool air-conditioned air inside rather than allow it to escape through the ceiling.

The walls will all be insulated and the windows and doors double glazed.

Do you think that might be overkill?

[KannikaP]

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Make sure the builder knows to put vents in the soffits, so that the heat in the roof space has somewhere to go. If not, your aircon bills will skyrocket.

Are the soffits not at the lower part of the roof space, so hot air will not escape via them, air will be drawn into them.

Vents on the ridge or whirlybirds are the answer. 

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, Encid said:

I was thinking more of keeping the cool air-conditioned air inside rather than allow it to escape through the ceiling.

The walls will all be insulated and the windows and doors double glazed.

Do you think that might be overkill?

2nd house we used Q/K- insulated block stuff (various names), with shaded, and that alone was more than enough to keep the house cool.  Built east to west, 9mm tinted window (glass front) was good, with 95+ UV & heat blocking.  All other exterior walls were shaded most of the day.  House was very cool, even on the hottest days.

 

In our 2nd build, more insulation (walls) or double glazed windows wouldn't have helped much.  Our present build will have one east sun exposed surface, mostly glass for a few morning hours, but don't care, as solar powered AC, so shouldn't be any issue cooling, if a bit of heat is transferred via glass sliding doors.

 

Insulation & windows are inexpensive, so a wee bit more for better never hurts, and a small percentage of final costs.  Shaded concrete roof, and insulated ceiling is a bit though, and I wouldn't bother.

[KhunLA]

23 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Are the soffits not at the lower part of the roof space, so hot air will not escape via them, air will be drawn into them.

Vents on the ridge or whirlybirds are the answer. 

New build has air vents lower & higher (side wall) and in a couple month, I'll let you know how that worked ????.  Steel roof has thickest insulation available, along with +37/38 ceiling insulation.  Steel roof will be partially shaded with solar panels also.

 

Not expecting any heat problem and practical precautions taken, though again, solar AC, so don't care.

 

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Are the soffits not at the lower part of the roof space, so hot air will not escape via them, air will be drawn into them.

Vents on the ridge or whirlybirds are the answer. 

The best solution IMO is to have a false vented window in a pitched roof, like the one in the photo.

You're right, vents in the soffits are not particularly effective, but they are better than nothing.

I'm a bit nervous about whirlybirds, if they stop whirling with a Thai downpour the results might not be good.

[Encid]

Here are a few photos I took of the land a couple of weeks ago... typical Isaan rice farm land... but what an awesome sunset!

Looking forward to watching many of them from the upstairs balcony.

 

You can see why we need to raise the height of the land by 1.5 metres. See also in the first photo the salt patch where nothing will grow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

20 hours ago, Encid said:

I am going through the process of planning a new house build on my wife's farm land up country.

When we the house on my wife's land, a lot of planning went into it and it worked out to a T, so the more planning, the better it will turn out, that said, it also depends on the quality of the materials you purchase.

 

1) I stated what I was going to spend and not one baht more for the materials, I budgeted 1,000,000 baht, and we purchased all of them and that cost came in at that, we did negotiate with one main hardware, so we could see the reduction in costs on materials, that's business and if there was an item that we deemed to expensive, we got it elsewhere for cheaper, but 95% of the materials came from there with free delivery each time we wanted our stuff at stages.

 

2) Builders fixed price was negotiated down from 520,000 to 500,000 baht with the proviso that if his workmanship was as good as we expected it to be, he would receive that 20l baht at the end which he did, and all works were itemised in a list. Just in case, and bingo, towards the end he said the installation of the built ins were not included in the price, yeh, nice try I said, wife referred him to the itemised schedule, is this your signature, oh, solly, yes you are right, yep, innocent mistake, but wasn't going to pay twice for something agreed upon. Also I made sure that he would be paid in progress payments, 5 in total and that worked.

 

3) Build with a Gable roof as it will provide you with good internal roof space so that it makes it easier for the hot air to escape, (refer to 4 below).

 

4) Good quality Sisalation is a must if you want a cool house here, the thicker the Sisalation, the longer it takes for the heat to penetrate into the roof space, this together with good quality concrete tiles makes it achievable, therefore providing you with the comfort you want.

Stay cool R-37 Insulation batts also reduce the heat coming in via the roof space and keeps the cooler air in below, i.e. it doesn't allow it to escape upwards when you have a fan or air conditioner on.

Vents at the front gable area are a must, also two to 4 whirly birds, 2 on opposite sides of the roof in different locations will help extract the hot air built up and take it out for you, soffits with vents will also allow hot air to exit, you also need to cover external walls from the sun penetrating the brickwork, whether that is by way of awnings or covered outdoor areas is up to you. Light curtains to block the sun/hot air coming through the glass, but not to an extent that it will heat up the room, that is why you don't use sunblock type curtains, they will trap the heat in between the window and the curtain and the room will also heat up.

 

5) Ceiling height with a minimum of 3 metres in height.

 

6) Paint the walls white so as to deflect the suns rays keeping the bricks cooler, they are also saying now that white roofs deflect the suns rays as well, however from an aesthetic point of view, might be overkill, we have the grey ones and all and good aesthectically. 

 

7) Build your bedrooms on the side that doesn't see the sun, great in summer as they are cooler than the rest of the house which does help at night.

 

Three out of the 4 walls we have are covered, only have one room exposed to the sun, that is a front spare room which we rarely used, the others are covered by outdoor areas, patio's and shade cloths, or don't see the sun, which help when your into the 40's in summer.

 

Personally the materials you have shown me in my opinion won't protect you from the heat here in Isan, but up to you, as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.

 

Good luck

[Encid]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

We used +37 & +38 for ceiling insulation on present build.  Though think the insulation is overkill for you, since having flat concrete roof and steel roof covering that.

 

Previous house had flat concrete roof, shaded by raised steel roof, which provide shade most of day, and good coverage, since rectangular house and built east to west lengthwise.  Ceiling stayed cool all year, not radiating any ambient heat from the outside.  Concrete roof was quite thick, not just slabs with thin concrete coating, but thick & waterproofed, since 'open', as designed for 2nd story if needed.

 

 

 

What sized columns did you have? 250mm x 250mm?

And at what spacing?

From your photo it would seem that you have quite large spans... 8 metres x 5 metres?

Apart from rebar and mesh any additional steel in the first floor?

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I'm a bit nervous about whirlybirds, if they stop whirling with a Thai downpour the results might not be good.

Never had a Whirlybird leak here, and in my opinion are very effective in removing the heat built up in the roof space.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Encid said:

What sized columns did you have? 250mm x 250mm?

And at what spacing?

From your photo it would seem that you have quite large spans... 8 metres x 5 metres?

Apart from rebar and mesh any additional steel in the first floor?

Columns between the window are 5 meters apart.  Main house was 8m wide, but, with support columns midway.  So one half was 20 X 4 open, the other, same, but with 3 seperate 'rooms; bdrm/bath, kitchen, bdrm/bath.  Column & beam, so no real support walls.  So 4m concrete slabs were used for roof.

 

Here's more than a few photos of the build, if having Google account, don't think you need to sign in to access: https://goo.gl/photos/69JVYh4LtQF8rixM6

 

[In Full Agreement]

20 hours ago, Olav Seglem said:

Check on goverment electric supply.

Internet.

Government water supply-regularity.

Road access.

Drilling  for water-ironized or salt ?

Your security- register right to stay on property as long as you live ???

Do builder speak english??

Impotant-be on site, every day to check whats going on, and do adjustments/improvement along the way.

Ps: good luck-memory for life ????

 

 

All good advice but isn't it a little late for the OP?

 

[dddave]

19 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Be absolutely clear on what you want and how you want it - employ a translater if necessary but I repeat, BE THERE.

I would amplify this to: make sure there is a trusted person on site 24/7. Unguarded building materials, even already installed material and fixtures will disappear in the night if you don't have a watchperson...and not the wife's uncle who appears with a bottle of Sangsom in his back pocket.

[david555]

21 hours ago, Will B Good said:

We are 90% complete now (same as you: wife's land Isan).

 

Went the opposite though. Complete turnkey contract. Penalty of 1.300 baht per day for late completion. Way over due, but not overly concerned as I fully expected it to be late......and don't expect to see a penny of the penalty money either.

 

Good luck.

 

Keep us all posted.

Did the construction workers enjoyed the music from your opposite neighbor ...? (????..)  ????

[KhaoYai]

5 hours ago, Encid said:

The current design is an elevated reinforced concrete (RC) floor with horizontal beams supporting/integrated with the slab. The beams will be supported by RC columns which in turn will be supported by RC piles. We have not determined the depth of the piles yet, but will probably be limited to the maximum depth that the drilling company can drill. Ground floor level is planned to be approx 1 metre above finished grade level. The soil is "sticky land" about a metre down, therefore a clay base.

If you are using piles, that's a whole different ball game but well done piles can be better than a raft.  However, the worrying part of your post is saying that the piles will be limited to the capability of the drilling company.  Although I'm sure a professional  driiling outfit will have access to the geological survey maps and therefore, know the likely depth they will need to go to - there is absolutely no point at all in using piles at all if they don't reach solid a substrate.

[Will B Good]

18 hours ago, david555 said:

Did the construction workers enjoyed the music from your opposite neighbor ...? (????..)  ????

Hi,

 

On the odd I day I have visited (I have stayed away on purpose) the builders were fighting back with their own sound system.......frickin mental the lot of them. Thais seem to have no inclination whatsoever to simply relax and listen to nature, they have to have some sort of noise drowning it out.